Public Land - a curse or a blessing?
01-07-2008 | 01:36 PM
#41
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,682
Likes: 0
From: Michigan/Ohio
RE: What about Sundays????
ORIGINAL: PreacherTony
Germ ... don't let him get to ya ..... somebody wizzed inFran's cornflakes this mornin'
Germ ... don't let him get to ya ..... somebody wizzed inFran's cornflakes this mornin'
I happen to like Fran, he's like that stray dog we took in 9 years ago. Could be the dumbest dogin the history of the world. Their is something about her I like and the dog
01-07-2008 | 02:12 PM
#43
Nontypical Buck
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,849
Likes: 0
From: Southwest Ohio
RE: What about Sundays????
ORIGINAL: quiksilver
Well, I'm looking at it from two different perspectives:
1.)Why do some states just have SO MANY hunters? I looked it over, and most of the states with gross hunter overpopulation - they're all highly populated areas that areloaded with public hunting areas. Odds are, that's where/how most guys got started. Cheap and easy entertainment.
2.) Despite the number of hunters actually dwindling, how is the pressure in some areas actually increasing? Deer horders sucking up large tracts of prime hunting land, property that's closed to all hunting, suburban sprawl, economic growth. Pike County would be the most obvious and extreme example. Lots of other places with similar problems, in a lesser degree.
It's very consistent, actually.One is the initial cause of the high hunter population. The other is the reason that the problem can't seem to correct itself (and is actually getting worse).
Well, I'm looking at it from two different perspectives:
1.)Why do some states just have SO MANY hunters? I looked it over, and most of the states with gross hunter overpopulation - they're all highly populated areas that areloaded with public hunting areas. Odds are, that's where/how most guys got started. Cheap and easy entertainment.
2.) Despite the number of hunters actually dwindling, how is the pressure in some areas actually increasing? Deer horders sucking up large tracts of prime hunting land, property that's closed to all hunting, suburban sprawl, economic growth. Pike County would be the most obvious and extreme example. Lots of other places with similar problems, in a lesser degree.
It's very consistent, actually.One is the initial cause of the high hunter population. The other is the reason that the problem can't seem to correct itself (and is actually getting worse).
Around me the only reason that places have been shut off to hunting is because 1) the people don't want the deer killed, which I have to respector 2) the land owners have had one too many bad experiences with hunters. Most of those bad experiences are of the leaving trash behind or bringing people with them or coming unannounced variety. Oh and I almost forgot the 4-wheeling on the property variety. That is a big one lately. No one around here is trying to lease their land out for $ or anything. Perhaps the problem isn't just too many hunters but too many dumb hunters???
Germ, don't worry. I have our turkey hunt all figured out. We are going to show up, you set up the TOOD, and we are done 30 minutes later. We'll fill in the rest as we go
01-07-2008 | 02:50 PM
#44
Thread Starter
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,716
Likes: 0
RE: What about Sundays????
Germ - The problem around here is, they're not dwindling fast enough.
Hson - I agree 100% on the ATV's. Huge pain in theschneid.Since DUI's seem to be en vogue at the moment, we have a bunch of people using them as their primary mode of transportation. Oh yeah. Cue the dueling banjos.
Hson - I agree 100% on the ATV's. Huge pain in theschneid.Since DUI's seem to be en vogue at the moment, we have a bunch of people using them as their primary mode of transportation. Oh yeah. Cue the dueling banjos.
01-07-2008 | 03:17 PM
#45
Typical Buck
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 957
Likes: 0
From: South Carolina
RE: Public Land - a curse or a blessing?
You guys have it easier compared to the Southeast. Years ago the timber companies posted all of their land and started leasing out the hunting rights. This is why hunting clubs had to be started. No single person could afford the leases themselves.
Some parts of SC has some great public land, but in most of the state if you don't belong to a hunting club, own land, or pay for a lease yourself, you just don't hunt.
Its a total eyesore to ride down back roads and see a bright yellow posted sign every 15yds. The sad thing is that we are losing more and more of the very little public land that we have. SC is starting to become very popular with out of state hunters for our long season and turkey hunting.
I now live in a county where some land goes for $45/ac to lease. Most of the reason is b/c of out of state hunters that drive the land prices up.
Its gotten so bad that a lot of people see the problem and will not lease their land to out of state hunters and some even go to the extreme of not leasing it to out of county hunters. Even though they lose money.
Some parts of SC has some great public land, but in most of the state if you don't belong to a hunting club, own land, or pay for a lease yourself, you just don't hunt.
Its a total eyesore to ride down back roads and see a bright yellow posted sign every 15yds. The sad thing is that we are losing more and more of the very little public land that we have. SC is starting to become very popular with out of state hunters for our long season and turkey hunting.
I now live in a county where some land goes for $45/ac to lease. Most of the reason is b/c of out of state hunters that drive the land prices up.
Its gotten so bad that a lot of people see the problem and will not lease their land to out of state hunters and some even go to the extreme of not leasing it to out of county hunters. Even though they lose money.
01-07-2008 | 03:41 PM
#46
Dominant Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 26,274
Likes: 0
From: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
RE: Public Land - a curse or a blessing?
ORIGINAL: quiksilver
LOL Germ, all I want is LESS HUNTERS. I'd give my rightnut for 3/4 of the local yocals to hang up their deer rifles forever. Cancel gun season... Do a drawing... Ramp up the antler laws... Charge $500 for a resident license... I don't care. Just too many people (around here) fighting over too little space.
Seriously Gary - In that other thread, I was just pointing out a hypocrisy on this board, and throughout the PC hunting public. Everybody acts like they're the next Great American Sportsmen b/c they say they root for the next guy, "hoping everyone has a successful season," but god forbid they ever let a total stranger come hunt on their land. Deer hording. "I hope you get one (as long as you don't get one of MY deer)." I think it'sa major hypocrisy, and it's prevalent among hunters. I've got a whole pile of guys who ring my phone in November to see how my season's going. While pretending to hope that I get the big one, they'dhave kittensif they saw me drag a booner out of their honeyhole. (Feeling is obviously mutual) But that's a whole other phenomenon...
This is a different issue that I just dreamed up. "Hunter Carrying Capacity."
Just like there's a formula for how many deer a piece of land can handle (Carrying Capacity)- I think there's also a limit to how many hunters a given area can support - before the hunting goes to crap.
More public land increases the "huntercarrying capacity" - at least temporarily- but when something happens and it's no longer easy-pickin's on the public land, you're left witha million people standing there with guns in their hands and valid tags in their pockets... looking for a deer to shoot... things go haywire.
LOL Germ, all I want is LESS HUNTERS. I'd give my rightnut for 3/4 of the local yocals to hang up their deer rifles forever. Cancel gun season... Do a drawing... Ramp up the antler laws... Charge $500 for a resident license... I don't care. Just too many people (around here) fighting over too little space.
Seriously Gary - In that other thread, I was just pointing out a hypocrisy on this board, and throughout the PC hunting public. Everybody acts like they're the next Great American Sportsmen b/c they say they root for the next guy, "hoping everyone has a successful season," but god forbid they ever let a total stranger come hunt on their land. Deer hording. "I hope you get one (as long as you don't get one of MY deer)." I think it'sa major hypocrisy, and it's prevalent among hunters. I've got a whole pile of guys who ring my phone in November to see how my season's going. While pretending to hope that I get the big one, they'dhave kittensif they saw me drag a booner out of their honeyhole. (Feeling is obviously mutual) But that's a whole other phenomenon...
This is a different issue that I just dreamed up. "Hunter Carrying Capacity."
Just like there's a formula for how many deer a piece of land can handle (Carrying Capacity)- I think there's also a limit to how many hunters a given area can support - before the hunting goes to crap.
More public land increases the "huntercarrying capacity" - at least temporarily- but when something happens and it's no longer easy-pickin's on the public land, you're left witha million people standing there with guns in their hands and valid tags in their pockets... looking for a deer to shoot... things go haywire.
As for your carrying capacity rant, I’vebeen on a board who decided how many deer need to be removed from the herd. Its calculated according to the density dependent and independent factors for a given area, as well as, the previous year’s hunting licenses sells and/or deer success recorded by check stations (where they have them), and the density of the herds in the area. However many deer need to be removed from the herds is afforded by the bag limit to the number of hunters the previous year. It might fluctuate a bit here and there but has proven true. Just in my short life time, ive seen the deer herds getting better and better each year. In the 70s and 80s, the deer I shot would never get close to making Pope and Young. Heck, we bearly saw deer period. We were lucky just to see a deer. Now I take a Pope and Young off and on depending on my luck. Usually one every two years or so.
01-08-2008 | 09:28 AM
#48
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
From: Washington State
RE: Public Land - a curse or a blessing?
I think a lot of the newly posted land is result of the high numbers of idiots afield during hunting season that have no business carrying a weapon of any kind. Keep'em highfenced inside the cities I say! [8D]
Out west we have a similar public land picture just on a larger scale. My bowhunt in Montana this year was a great example of hard to findelk on the public land.. but right across an old broken down ranch fence high up on a mountain the 6th day of our hunt we sat and drooled over huge 7x7 bull and his harem of cows and satellite bulls 200 yds away.. it was heart breaking.
Out west we have a similar public land picture just on a larger scale. My bowhunt in Montana this year was a great example of hard to findelk on the public land.. but right across an old broken down ranch fence high up on a mountain the 6th day of our hunt we sat and drooled over huge 7x7 bull and his harem of cows and satellite bulls 200 yds away.. it was heart breaking.
01-08-2008 | 11:39 AM
#49
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Public Land - a curse or a blessing?
Try living / hunting in NJ.. One of the most densely populated states and yet, one of the smallest. The WMA's are hunted to death, been for years now... Housing sprouting up everywhere with no one around that can afford to live in the new houses...
In my area, farmers / landowners post their land and let NO ONE on to hunt. A legal, decent person (hunter) is not needed to come onto anyones property to help control the herd and save them from crop damage. The great state of NJ gives , to any farmer that cries for it, a FARMER DESTRUCTION PERMIT . This allows the farmer to kill whatever they want, whenever they want (day or night), with whatever they need to do the job... All to be thrown into a giant pit at the back of their properties.. To rot...
I must say though... You have PLENTY of hunters that have no respect ... posted or not, permission or not, they will walk a piece if no one is around.. We had that happen about 3-4 weeks ago.
In my area, farmers / landowners post their land and let NO ONE on to hunt. A legal, decent person (hunter) is not needed to come onto anyones property to help control the herd and save them from crop damage. The great state of NJ gives , to any farmer that cries for it, a FARMER DESTRUCTION PERMIT . This allows the farmer to kill whatever they want, whenever they want (day or night), with whatever they need to do the job... All to be thrown into a giant pit at the back of their properties.. To rot...
I must say though... You have PLENTY of hunters that have no respect ... posted or not, permission or not, they will walk a piece if no one is around.. We had that happen about 3-4 weeks ago.
01-08-2008 | 02:22 PM
#50
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,375
Likes: 0
From: Wentzville, MO
RE: Public Land - a curse or a blessing?
Be glad you have public land, I know I am here in Missouri. Fortunately this state has enough brains to make most public land OFF LIMITS to the orange horde. Hardley ever run into other bowhunters and/or small game hunters on public land. Just this past weekend pulled onto the lotat the same time as a father and son that were going out for some tree rats. They saw me getting ready and asked where I was headed and went the opposite way. Now that's the way to bring up young hunters!