Driving in to work today, I was thinking about something. Public land.

Pennsylvania is loaded with public land. We have hundreds of thousands of acres ofmunicipal land, gamelands, national forests, coal strips, crop damage areas, co-op lands, and the list goes on. Pennsylvania is also loaded with hunters. To the gills. More hunters per square mile than any other state in the union.

Why? Easy access. In PA anyone can hunt. It takes zero effort. You just buy a tag and go to the public land and go nuts. That's how we've managed to put 1 Million people in the woods every year.

In PA, we have a "public hunting" subculture that extends not only from government-owned land, but even into the private sector. For years, it's been "presumed" that most any landowner or farmer will let you hunt. It's just how we've always done it. Everything is a public hunt. Even if it's not truly "public land."

That is subject to change, however.

Things right now are starting to tighten up. Antler restrictions, herd reduction and lawsuits have landowners battening down the hatches, and posting everything in sight. Also account for the natural expansion of housing and business - gobbling up the huntable acres by the thousands.

So, who is the odd-man-out? The hunter.

So my question is this: Can easy access to public (and evenopen-private)hunting actually overinflate the number of hunters in a state or area to a point where they are hunting the public land to death, then overpressuring landowners tofind private land to hunt-with that pressure resulting inmore POSTED signs going up, and land-hording/hunt leasingto take place?

Are any of you other guys seeing this in other states?

Is "easy access" to hunting to blame? Or is it just "big buck mania?"

Kind of like you, MI is about the same as PA.

Blessing your'e here Fran, but you are a curse sometimes also

Grew up in PA and walked A LOT of public, now live in IL where there is a serious lack of public land. Now that IL is a bonafide big buck state, if you want to hunt private land you will pay for that right or marry into the family who owns the land. This is what is happening everywhere, it isn't gonna change as long as the trophy mentality in hunting and fishing continues. It isn't just bagging a deer any more, and be happy. It's bagging a wall hanger or nothing. So I say it's big buck mania. Thanks can also go to all the great hunting shows, and the products that will "get you that big buck" if people watch enough of it, they come to expect it for themselves as well... Competition shows, antler worship, and lack of time also contribute. Why spend time hiking and scouting (learning), when you can pay for someone else to do that??? Sadly it is becoming a rich mans sport.

Interesting proposal. No one can ever say that you don’t look at things from all angles that’s for sure.

However, I think Pa’s situation is just a “perfect storm” of reasons that make it so crowded here. We are a very populated state and have a deep hunting tradition. How much of that hunting tradition is due to public land, I don’t know. But I think most can be attributed to the culture of the state. At least back in the day. No one cared who hunted where. The posted areas were the oddballs of the rural communities. Now that has swung the other direction, and at least for me, long before the “new” regulations came into place. I don’t see much of people buying places for themselves (a few) but the majority seems to just be non hunting folk, that want no one on their land period, for any reason. Now open farms are the rarity and that has squeezed hunters to fit on less ground. Further that with it being less productive to “head north” and you have some REALLY crowded lands. Populations rise, popularity of bowhunting and turkey hunting have exploded and you get a lot of hunters with not much space to go. I think the expanses of public land in this case are a saving grace as opposed to a curse.

I honestly came to the thought this weekend of wondering if I am better off (at least mentally) to hunt public land because there, everyone is equal. There are no worries of trespassers as every is allowed. I think it would be much less infuriating to have a hunt interrupted by a lawfully hunting person than a trespassing slob, which is growing ever too common for me.

I REALLY think PA needs to crack down on its trespass laws. But this too is a double edge sword. There are many areas that are privately owned but “open” and it is common practice that anyone and everyone hunts there. However to protect areas and landowners that have posted land, closing off all land, posted or not to written permission only (AND actually enforcing it) would really crack down
on trespassers, but it would also pull a lot of land currently available to spread out the hunter numbers.

It’s a tough situation here in PA and one that I waiver on in regards to buying my own land. Yes it would be awesome to have, but I could never patrol or monitor it enough, and I think it would just cause me much more headache to deal with trespassers.

Its mostly big buck mania here in Illinois. Not enough public land and outfitting and leasing is taking over many parts of the state. Its bad enough that many of the guys who lease are non-residents and displacing local hunters who cannot afford to lease or buy their own land. The assumption is always made the local hunters are at fault for not leasing or buying land themselves, but it should be understood that in many rural areas of Illinois many of the jobs in those areas are not high paying.

I'd welcome much more public land in Illinois and call it a blessing, enabling more resident hunters and non-resident hunters alike to have a place to hunt. Even in Shawnee Nat. Forest you better have a plat book, GPS and know exactly where you are going because quite a bit of it is privately owned.

Question for you guys who are from states with little public land: Do you think that the lack of public land keeps your resident huntingpopulation at reasonable levels?

I think it's just too much hassle for an average joe to run himself ragged banging on doors and begging for access when there's no public hunt easily available.Most weekend warriors don't want topay through the nose for a lease. I'm starting tothink thatthis actuallykeeps the hunter numbers in check. These people simply select a different hobby - one that has fewer barriers to entry. Or they marry the farmer's daughter.

Illinois is an interesting scenario, b/c the deer quality and the demand for non-resident alien invasion has driven up everybody's price. Simple supply/demand.

InPA, where wehave always had massive amounts of public land - we've always had ample supply to meet the rising demand. Now thatthe public land is getting overhunted and deer populations are thin, the orange army is migrating from the public land and banging on farmers' doors (or they just trespass w/o permission). Simply put, there's just not enoughavailable private land to meet the burgeoning demand. Private landowners are getting fed up with the hassle and the litter and the trespassing and the recklessness - so they're slamming the door.

Our public land is still there, but it's less attractive b/c everybody now wants to see 10 deer per sit, and shoot a PY deer. On public land, that's not easy. Big buck mania is definitely a contributing force.

Ryan: "Perfect Storm" is a good way to describe what's happening here.

absouletly ... without a doubt...."true hunters" imo are ones who obey all laws and don't pull out some gun from there daddy, put on a scope...shoot it in the backyard or on some piece of public land at a beer can..hit it and say they are ready to go......if you have that much public land..that is what you are going to get.....

in CA we have lots of public land...and here you see the road hunters and other "lazy" hunters who target practice in camp the day before opening day...it is crazy.....u cannot however hunt on private land as you stated in PA...just would not fly out here...you would get shot...so you get all of these "so called hunters" on public lands running around and shooting up the place...

i think it is a good thing they are tightening down in PA....hopefully this will cause a lot of the "lazy" hunters to give up as they can't go down the road to farmer John's house and shot his deer off his property anymore...

by tightening y

Fran what do you want?

One thread you are calling people who own land and restrict access hipocrits for doing so(me)
Another thread you are wishing all the gun hunting in PA be banned. So your hunting pressure will be less.
Now you are trying to figure out if having access to hunting; being to easy is the cause of there being million + huntes in PA.

Fran go buy some land, you'll feel better

What I think you are doing is building a case for Hunter Access distresss Syndrome case. Fran sues PA DNR for years of allowingeasy access to hunting. This has called distress for Fran, he is seeking 3 weeks of the seasons for himself. No other hunting is allowed during Fran season[8D]

OBW I 100% agree about the access theory It's a blessing, as long as they stay away from me

LOL Germ, all I want is LESS HUNTERS. I'd give my rightnut for 3/4 of the local yocals to hang up their deer rifles forever. Cancel gun season... Do a drawing... Ramp up the antler laws... Charge $500 for a resident license... I don't care. Just too many people (around here) fighting over too little space.

Seriously Gary - In that other thread, I was just pointing out a hypocrisy on this board, and throughout the PC hunting public. Everybody acts like they're the next Great American Sportsmen b/c they say they root for the next guy, "hoping everyone has a successful season," but god forbid they ever let a total stranger come hunt on their land. Deer hording. "I hope you get one (as long as you don't get one of MY deer)." I think it'sa major hypocrisy, and it's prevalent among hunters. I've got a whole pile of guys who ring my phone in November to see how my season's going. While pretending to hope that I get the big one, they'dhave kittensif they saw me drag a booner out of their honeyhole. (Feeling is obviously mutual) But that's a whole other phenomenon...

This is a different issue that I just dreamed up. "Hunter Carrying Capacity."

Just like there's a formula for how many deer a piece of land can handle (Carrying Capacity)- I think there's also a limit to how many hunters a given area can support - before the hunting goes to crap.

More public land increases the "huntercarrying capacity" - at least temporarily- but when something happens and it's no longer easy-pickin's on the public land, you're left witha million people standing there with guns in their hands and valid tags in their pockets... looking for a deer to shoot... things go haywire.

I think they should allow crossbow hunters to hunt all bow season over bait on public land but only if they do it for PA and not in my state, MD.