RE: Would you turn him in?
 

Agree 100%

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

A yesresponse does not need any justification because it's the right thing to do.

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

I would just distance yourself from him. What hes doing obviously bothers you to the point you want him in jail. I just can't see how hes even your friend.
Next time your shooting with him tell him you don't want to hear about illegally shot deer anymore. If you don't speak up he thinks you don't mind him doing it.
He might actually change his ways.
Think about it; you shoot a buck illegally, and you go to show all the guys at the ole' hunt club. If they all turned you away, next time you would think before you shot another illegal deer. It's the fear you won't be respected among your peers.

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

This isn't always a yes or no question........

My answer would depend on the violation. The guys who shoot 9 bucks when two are legal.... no question about it. They're turned in. Period.

I DO get irritated when I hear the "feed the family" crap. In this day and age, there are too many safety valves for those in financial distress. Would it be OKif a guy broke into your home or car and stole money and went to the grocery store with the money? I really love it when I see a guy leaned over the bar after being there for hours telling how he had to kill a few deer illegally"to feed the family"while he spends enough at the bar that day on beer and the poker machine to feed a family for a week[:'(]


Now, there's a lot of situations where I wouldn't do a thing. Mostly the violations where the land, landowners,the game, and fellow hunters arent harmed.Things like not wearing orange when on private property, hunting a few minutes after hours on a bright clear day, putting down any severly woundedanimal that doesnt happen to be in season. Tresspassing strictly to recover a deer before it spoils when the owner is unreachable for permision.

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

This topic really shows how “socially acceptable” poaching is.
The argument has been made for both sides. You have the morally right/wrong debate, fear of retaliation, a “no harm no foul” attitude, and letter of the law people. It’s difficult to say which path is truly the “right” one.

I will say one thing though, and not pointing to anyone specifically, but for as much as poachers are despised in the hunting community, that certainly doesn’t carryover to actually turning them in.

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

Well atleast if you know the poachers Rybo;) Then it becomes "not" cool to do what is right. We all know what the right thing to do is, but we seldom do so, and make a boat load of exuces to justify our actions.

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

I don't know that it's socially acceptable based on this thread. This is one of those things that you can't answer honestly unless you are there.

I mean GMMAT told us the truth as he knows it..

But we'd each weigh the facts, the character of the people accused, what's here-say vs what can we prove if we turn them in.

Plus the whole story and known details were not established early in the voting..so no, I don't believe this is an accurate sampling of what the hunting community would do.

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

Not going by the voting, just going by the responses and the “well it depends” attitude of most of them. Which I can understand to a point, but it just seems like there is a double standard out there. You’ll see on the boards all the time. We HATE poachers! Down with those scum! Then ask people if they turn them in and it’s “Well…it wasn’t in my area….I don’t know all the facts…..maybe he was feeding his family……”


So your saying, you are being investigator, judge & jury BEFORE making the call? Shouldn't the WCO make that determination if there is enough to investigate?

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

apparently not always... all i'm sayin is that if you (or anyone else) is gonna justify turnin in your friend for this and you're not turning him in for other violations it is hypocritical...

taking someone elses example, what if the guy IS feeding his family out of this, he's breakin the law, you're gonna deny his family of food??? yes need justification in that case... unfortunately, their IS grey area when it comes to morals/ethics vs. the law where it is black and white... sometimes morally the law is unjust, which is why YES votes can need justification as well...

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

:D;)Well said, both of you.

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

Well yes but you have to have some basis to make the call. I hope your not just gonna call a WCO just because you haven't seen the 10 pt you had on trailcam all summer..Well heck as good as a hunter as I am I would have seen him by now..He must have been poached!

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

What if he is stealing heating oil to provide heat for his family? You gonna deny his family heat? Or like the other guy said, how about if he steals money from you to feed his family? Is it OK to break the law if you are "providing" for your family?

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

What if he comes and steals and smashes your computer cuz he's tired of arguing every possible scenerio??

Does that make him a hero or a villian??

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

As long as he smashes your computer and not mine then he is a hero. But that is the point, isn't it? It's OK if he steals as long as he doesn't steal from me ;).

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

do you equate stealing from other people to feeding his family from natural resources?? i sure don't... i see that particular example as no different than cutting down a tree for heat...

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

If the natural resources are "free" to take then why do you buy a hunting license and only hunt in season?

EDIT: Oh, and go into any park and try and cut down a tree for heat and see if it is "free" ;).

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

I think point that some are missing is this:

If it is a friend who needs help, he will get it from me. If I sit back let a friend get to a point he has to steal/poach/lie to feed his family; well I am not much of a friend than.

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

I buy a license cuz i play by the rules.... and I hunt in season for the same reason...

as for the park? well, that's maintained by tax dollars, i'm sure he's payin taxes on somethin no? point being that I didn't say free, just that its the moral equivalent of using a tree for heat... not like he's robbing someone at gun point or breaking into their home to get their fuel oil for his home...

but as I said way earlier in this thread, if a few deer are more important than your friends you seriously need to look at your priorities... based on GMMAT's further details, I'm on the fence about whether or not this guy is actually a friend rather more like an acquaintance, but in the end, i doubt I'd turn him in regardless for fear of retribution if he found out who turned him in... besides, if you did it annonomously how could you continue to shoot and BS with him without carrying around a ton of guilt, obviously his act is despicable to GMMAT, so why conitnue to hang out with him??? first course of action should be to tell him what you think about the situation, he'll either listen and take it to heart or he'll stop associating with GMMAT... either way, the results will tell you if he is a friend or not... if he bails on the "friendship" he wasn't a friend and there should be no guilt in turning him in if thats the decision... but if he is a friend he may actually listen and start living up to the rules... in the end, its just a matter of time before he does get caught, karma is a b!tch and I see no need to insert myself into a situation any further than that...

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

To those who have a strong stance on this topic, my question is how many hunters do you hang out with or know just as an acquaintancesthat you consider to be "poachers" or "game law breakers"? Reason I ask is that it's easy to answer the question with a knee-jerk response - "Heck yeah I'd turn them in" - if you don't know anyone first hand who might be involved in questionable activities.

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

If he's a friend, why would you let him get so desperate for food that he's forced to go out and poach? Why aren't you and hisother friendshelping him out? Letting a friend and his family starve just proves eitherthat you do not really a consider him a friend,or that you've got morality issues.

We had apoll on here a whileback about breakinggame laws and would you do it. It ran about the same way this one is going, with a pretty healthy majority saying they already do, or would in 'special circumstances'. Just like the 'special circumstances' excuses being made here. I lost a lot of respect for a great manypeople on this forum over that one. This poll is just reinforcing the result of that one.

But talk about hypocrites! Griping about others' ethics shortcomings while you go around talking and acting likeour game lawsare optional? Grey area my hind end!

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

I agree with this SS Hunter... many people on the 'net tend to get very self-righteous when it isn't about them or someone they know... I've run into several poachers and game law breakers by nature of hangin out at my uncles gun shop in AL, you say somethin about it and they get all indignant about it like poaching is their "right", well, guess what, they aren't friends and I don't make it a point to associate with them... and as I've mentioned on other threads, these are the same guys that if they find out who turned 'em in have no qualms about saying stuff like "well, i guess I'll just go light a match..."

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

Probably not, but it would be a discretionary and situational. If the guy shot a deer for food, definitely not. If he spotlighted and killed a monster buck because it was a monster buck then I would!

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

I voted to turn the people in but to do it without divulging your identity.(I can't spell anonomously.LOL) Most of the known poachers in our area are not particularly stable.A couple have criminal histories,assault,drug convictions.SO the fear of retalliation is well founded with these people.
I have turned in poachers on 4 occaisions,one was for shooting a doe in someones lawn,one was for shooting from the road,two were for baiting.SO I just don't turn a blind eye to it.The unfortunate thing is that it is really difficult to get a conviction on poachers and if they do the fines or punishments are not severe enough.You have to be a complete moron to be convicted in our area.
I know a poacher who has shot a mechanical deer in one instance,had a taxidermist turn him in for shooting a deer with a rifle during archery season and the guy is still poaching big bucks every year and still buy's a license just like you and I do.
So there is an attitude of why bother,they wont be able to get a conviction and if they do the punishment is a joke.Refer back to me having turned people in on four occaisions.I don't condone it.
I do feel it is a matter of degree,am I going to turn someone in for using a spouses tag,friends tag.No I am not.I know people who fill tags for other people and give them the entire deer.illegal yes,common practice,management permits are legally transferrable in NY.
I do believe it is a judgement call,and while I hold the game laws in high regard like all laws there is hypocrisy.Laws are laws and we all break them,speeding,tax laws,infidelity,stealing in various ways,ie the extra cable box and many other examples.
I am not here to judge everyone,not my place for a lot of reasons.If someone is doing something totally horrendous such as nine bucks,they are getting turned in.

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

i guess you've never heard of someone's pride before huh?? in many respects, I'd be the same way, I'd find another way to feed my family before asking for help... some times friends don't know what's goin on...

hey now, I stick to the game laws, that is my conscious choice... but I'm not a judge and jury and I'm not judging someone elses morals about the situation... all I've maintained throughout this whole thing is that my friends are more important to me than a few deer, plain and simple, if a few deer are more important, well, you're the one that has to live with that and it is my opinion that that is a backwards priority... I'm not a game warden or DNR officer, it is not my job nor is it my responsibility to make these calls, to a friend, I'd mention it to them myself, they'd either get on board and follow the rules or they would be offended that I called 'em on it, they'd either end the friendship or not...

and another thing, i'm not by ANY stretch saying our game laws are optional, nowhere has that even been hinted at... the grey area lies in what each individual person would do about it...

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

With the results speaking for themselves.......I have to ask....

I posted on here a while back about "hunters" (as a group....and in MY opinion) having its' unfair share (I think I used the word 'exhorbitant') amount of unsavory characters. Given the results of the poll above......what's to change this (if indeed....it's even true....%-age wise)?

Doesn't "silence = assumed consent"? Are we making it too easy?

I don't know the answer. I think an open dialogue is a good thing.

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

as long as it stays respectful, certainly...

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

For me, silence does = assumed consent. Call it what you want, but you are either part of the solution or part of the problem. Our whole society is ate up with touchy feely it's all okay syndrome. Whatever happened to people being responsible for their actions? And for making others responsible for theirs? We're going headfirst down the crapper and not enough people are realizing it is because there is no responsibilty for actions in our society anymore.

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

critr-gitr,

i agree with you nearly 100%... accountability is certainly something people need these days especially... but the inital question was whether or not you'd turn in your friend... a total stranger? absolutely, DNR gets called, a friend though is different to me... confront said friend first, convince him, if he's a friend he'll listen and not be offended (much) and you'll continue to be friends... but with a friend you shouldn't need to contact the authorities to make a difference

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

Not disagreeing with you....just asking.

Does the degree of the offense have any bearing on whether you hold this line or not?

Are there some offenses that simply "can't" be overlooked?

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

Are there some offenses that simply "can't" be overlooked?
[/quote]

Absolutely. I don't think you would have had many no votes if you would have told the whole story at the begining. 9 bucks when the limit is 2....turn him in. But be prepared for the backlash if you tell him you turned him in. Thats what tip lines are for.

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

yes... serious violations such as rape, murder, theft, etc. certainly come to mind... poaching a few deer doesn't imho... i'd say that ~my~ criteria would basically stipulate any egregious violations against other people... victimless crimes? not so much...

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

7mag

I was aiming my reply at Jeff's latest question, not the original one. But to answer the question... In my youth, perhaps I had "friends" that would have fallen into that category, but I have not been in that situation for many years now. Why? Some of them I have distanced myself from, some have distanced themselves from me because they know I don't approve of illegal actions. Does a man have to "call the law" to make a difference? Sometimes he does. Sometimes he might can change it by other means. But the bottom line to me is, unless you want to live in a degenerating society, you must do something to affect positive change. Natural progression is degeneration, for things to change for the positive it requires input. No input = degeneration. This is as true for society as it is for any process.

SevenBUCKS over the limit is to me a blatant disregard for the game laws that are designed to protect something which I hold dear. I doubt a little talk would affect this man at all. If I knew him I might feel different, but I don't, so that is my best answer. I would do it anonomously, and not think twice about it. A different situation might call for another action, but I just call it the way I see it and make no apologies for it.

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

sevenmag:

You knew I'd ask:D. Do you think taking seven bucks over the legal limit is a "victimless crime"? No wrong answer. It's your opinion.

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

I was waiting for that Jeff.:D Personally I have trouble with the term "victimless crime".

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

Poaching is NOT a victimless crime. ALL of us as hunters pay for it, in public sentiment if nothing else. I stand by my first response. I'd talk to that friend and find out why he did it and make him promise not to do it again. If he kept on doing it, I'd turn him in with no remorse and break all ties with him.

And to answer someone's question from back there a few pages, I've turned in 'friends' twicebefore.

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

of course I knew that was coming... yes, i think it is, however, doen't mean I condone what he's doin... if I considered him a friend I'd talk to him first, if he didn't change his ways our friendship would be in jeopardy, continued abuse (especially if he's braggin about it) would probably end the friendship and eventually the law would get called... but then again, by that point, i wouldn't consider him a friend, and that would be the deciding factor for me... not whether or not he's breakin the law, but whether or not he's a friend... i'm sure many have heard the phrase "Bro's before Ho's", same sentiment applies here...

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

like speeding or a parking meter violation?? ;)

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

Speeding is a victimless crime until someone gets killed or hurt. That's why it's illegal.

A parking meter violation? :eek:

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

so, allow me to take that to a logical, yet ridiculous, extension of that statement... because people get killed when they aren't speeding should all vehicle movement be restricted??? ;)

but also, when someone gets killed when someone else is speeding it is no longer a victimless crime, but then again, some people view speeding as nothing more than a revenue generator for the PD's to justify their existence...

hey, its illegal no? victimless crime? :D

RE: Would you turn him in?
 

SevenMag, such a spin doctor as yourself would have been a top aide in the Clinton administration.[8D]