More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

ARROW TRAJECTORY (in inches) - Zero @ 20 Yds.

YARDAGE 10 20 30 40 50

S200+4.30-13-34 -65
P225+3.40-10-27 -51
E250+2.80 -8-22 -41
E275+2.30 -7 -18-34
D300 +1.90 -6-15-29
325 +1.6 0 -5-13 -24
350+1.40 -4 -11 -21
375 +1.20-4 -10-18
400+1.1 0 -3-9-16

** Just to be clear - this is where your arrow will hit, if you hold on the bullseye at X yards, while using your 20 yard mark. **

As the speed debate will continue through 2008 and onward, I figured I'd sketch out a chart, just to show you guys what speed will really get you, from a yardage estimation perspective.

There's no doubt that the faster your arrow is moving, the more fudge factor you have in estimating the range.

I just figured this might be helpful for a few of you guys talking about buying new hunting bows for '08 - especially with all the new, fast bows and ultralight arrows hitting the market.

All my info came from this link: http://www.lmariana.com/traj.htm

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

Thx Quick for helping all archers:D

If you want an arrow

Carbon Tech CT safari 15.5 GPI;)
http://www.carbontecharrows.com/Hunting/hunting_master_detail.php?ModelNumber=S500S

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

Under field conditions, this whole chart is going to be affected, to a considerable degree, by the difference in elevationbetween the peep and the nocking point. The chart appears to be the actual flight of the arrow. But when the sights are 4" above the arrow, the difference between the sight pins at the various distances is less than the chart would suggest. The arrow is flying uphill quite a bit when the sights are level.

For instance, for my 260 fps setup, the actual 30 yard drop is slighly less than 6" relative to the 20 yard pin. The difference between 60 yards and 70 yards is about 25".

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

Im thinking its not right for my rig because ive shot 50 yards at a target that wasnt 3 ft and i diddnt have that much trouble... Maybe im wrong wich is entirely possable, Ither way thanks for the chart you always do help everyone on this forum

Ryan.

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

Roskoe - the chart isn't 100% precise, but it's close enough to get in the ballpark.You're right,the chart doesn't account for the peep/nockpoint gap, however it ALSO doesn't account for the arrow slowing down downrange- which will offset what you're talking about, to a degree.

For my hunting setup, I'm coming in right around 350, andthat ballistics calculatorputs me +/- an inch or two.

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

Is this really saying my hunting arrow drops between 6-7" at 30yds?.....assuming I put my 20yd pin on the target?

Am I reading that right?

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

I have shot arrows between 200-250 fps with no need to change my 30 yard pin.

Paul

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

Wouldn't an arrow weighing 1 lb. drop more than an arrow weighing 350GR? (naturally?)

Just because an arrow is chrono'd at 300fps at 2'.......where does this chart pick up? What's the arrow speed at 20yds?

Can this be (I have no idea) accurate if we don't know the weight of the arrow?

Just asking.

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

No. That's what I'm getting at. Let's look at the trajectory of the .223 Remington. The actual trajectory of the bullet is dropping the instant the bullet leaves the barrel. At 100 yards, it is 2" low; at 200 yards it is almost 8" low, and at 300 yards it is almost 20" low. This is with the barrel bore perfectly level.

Put a scope on the rifle mounted 1.5" above the bore. Sight in for 100 yards. Now you are only 2.4" low at 200 yards, and only 10" low at 300 yards.

Now look at a Colt AR-15 (same caliber and bullet) where the sights are mounted almost 3" above the bore. Sight in a 100 yards. You are still 1/2" high at 200 yards. And only about 6" low at 300 yards.

Does this make sense?

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

Nope, according to my physics teacher (but he has been known to be wrong) weight has nothing do to with verticle drop. A heavier arrow will travel slower though and have more downward momentum...or something like that...

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

I think almost the opposite would be true. Two arrows, leaving the bow at the same speed . . . the heavier arrow would hold its speed better over distance, provided the heavier arrow didn't have more air resistance.

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

AAHH this is baffling my mind again, my head hurt from thinking about it and since i really have no actual knowledge on the topic i will be exiting this conversation. Lol have a nice day ya'll!

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

Just think of it as a plastic bullet vs. a lead bullet. Both have the exact same shape. And assume both are launched at the same speed. The density of the lead bullet is a lot higher - and so is the weight. Which one is going to fly further and drop less?

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

Roskoe:

I'm no expert....but if we're talking about arrows.....I think we need look no further than Fran's setup vs. mine. If I stuck his arrow in my bow....we'd get VERY similar arrow speeds.

I always thought a lighter arrow = a flatter trajectory.

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

There are some other factors to be figured in that too. Fletching being a MAJOR one. Each fletching style creates different drag on the arrow, dictating how fast it slows down, thus effecting drop. Yes?

And Jeff, a lighter arrow does mean flatter trajectory, to a certain yardage. It's flatter because it's faster. The actual rate of drop is the same regardless of how much the arrow weighs, but the faster one covers more ground before it drops the same amount.

But the light arrow wins only to a point. A heavy arrow will retain it's speed longer, thus not dropping as much as a light arrow, at farther yardage. But in the case of an archer, you won't be shooting that far anyway, so it's a moot point.

Don't look at it in terms of weight, speed, or inches of drop. Look at it in TIME. In .25 seconds an arrow weighing 200 grains will drop as much as an arrow weighing 400 grains. The difference is the distance traveled in that .25 seconds.

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

After spending hours of time behind arrow trajectory software plotting out what I have journaled during yardage practice for 3D, as well as shooting the same bows setup for IBO at 315ish fps and then backing them down for ASA at 280ish fps, I can say that graph isVERY inaccurate.

The differencebetween a 275fps arrow and a 315fps arrow is less than an inch at 40 yards. This is such a small amount, that 99.999999999% of archersdo not shoot well enough to take advantage of this difference at all. There are also many other factors that contribute to the trajectoryas well such as shaft diameter, fletching size and type, FOC, etc.........

With that said, there will certainly be differences between shooting 275fps and 350+, but still most hunters aren't shooting out past 30 yards anyhow at live game, and those that are shooting out past those distances are hopefully smart enough to be using a range finder every time at those distances. If you don't have time for it, should you really be shooting at that animal?

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

I wanted to add, that the only place that good speed is really beneficial is if your shooting 3D from the big boy stakes with targets out to 50ish yards at unknown distances. Example..........41 yardguess on a 45 yard targetwould barely producean 8 ring @ 290fps, or a high 8/low 10 ringif your shooting 330fps. This is where it counts. Both arrows kill a real live deer though........;)

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

All I know is my slow trad bows kill animals just as dead as my lightning fast compounds.;)

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

No way.The only way you could get those results would be to play games with the sights/arrows. I.E. Set up the slow bow "just a touch" hot at 20, and the fast bow just a tad bit low... Maybe put feathers and an ultralight arrow on the fast bow, blazers and a heavy arrow on the slow one. Playing games with the trajectory andspeed retention- Cheating. You could come close. But no way is there 1" of difference between those two bows, as described.

The Physics: 2 objects traveling 120 feet, with one at 315 and the second at 275...
(I'm horrible at math, so if I'm wrong - just show me what I did wrong)

Object 1 will be in the air for .38 seconds, while Object 2 will be in the air for .44 seconds, a difference of .06 seconds.

275/1 = 120/.44 and 315/1 = 120/.38

In .38 seconds, a falling body will fall 27"

In .44 seconds, falling body #2 will fall 37"

d(meters1)=1/2(9.8)(.38)(.38)
d(meters1)=.70756
d(inches1)= .70756 x 39
d(inches1)= 27

d(meters2)=1/2(9.8)(.44)(.44)
d(meters2)=.94864
d(inches2)=.94864 x 39
d(inches2)= 37

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

I agree with you Quik about the drop difference (the math doesn't lie) but what Matt (Rick James) said in his second post is right on. That's why my 3D rig shoots a 360 grain arrow at 320 fps and my hunting rig shoots a 505 grain arrow at 265. There are things in hunting more important than arrow speed.

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

The differences I have seen in real life were within the 1" number I stated but there were many other outside influences such as shaft diameter, etc.......

My main point still stands........there is no usable advantage in the deer hunting woods for this kind of speed unless your not using a rangefinder past 30 yards, in which case you really should be. I'm pretty good at judging distance and have the hardware on the wall to prove it, but still pull out the rangefinder every time I'm looking at an animal past 30 yards that's not made of foam. If I don't have the time to click the rangefinder, I don't shoot.

There is nothing wrong to like the speed and think it's cool, I do as well........but there is no way I am going to believe it's putting more deer inanyones freezer. [8D]

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

There's probably less deer going in the freezer. With all the speed in these new bows today people think they cantake farther shotsbecausethere bow is (Fast). Thats a funny one!

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

Would anyone go along with using a high performance bow to gain energy and momentum instead of speed? I don’t believe speed factors a whole lot in hunting, but I do like to error on the side of more energy & momentum in my arrows. I know a well placed shot needs very little KE to zip thru a rib cage, but I like to have that confidence that if something does go wrong, the arrow has enough ability to penetrate a deer’s vitals. I’m probably going to buy a speed bow(310+ IBO) for next year and then slow that bugger down with a little on the heavy side arrow to be able to shoot those armor plated deer. :D[8D]

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

I support all arrows at whatever speed they travel, unless it is across my land;)

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

I don't think speed is putting more deer in the freezer. I took just as many deer with a old slow recurve bow as I do now. The big difference is speed bows are harder hitting, getting better penetration and we don't have the deer lost with bad hits as we did when I started bowhunting. Bows are not the only thing we have better broadhead, arrows, are better educated and so on. I would get one are two calls a week to go out to help find a deer back in the 60s and early 70s. Now some are still lost, but maybe one are two a year and most years none. I haven't lost a deer in a long time well say I can't remember the last time, It's been a long long time ago

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Until someone can tell me what I'm HURTING by using a light, fast arrow that's still producing 82 #'s of KE.....I'll keep right on shooting the fast arrow.

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You don't support light arrows, because you discriminate against them by only shooting heavy arrows. Thus, you are driving the light arrow manufacturers into financial ruin by boycotting their products. Their kids are starving, and their homes are falling into foreclosure as we speak.

I will not stand for this. Shame on you, Germ. Shame on you.

Again, your actions don't reflect the words coming out of your mouth. You hypocrite. I hope Michigan hires Jay Paterno, just to spite you.

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

GMMAT, a 350 gn arrow at 300 fps will have practicallythe same trajectory at 30 yards as a 550 gn arrow at 300 fps at 30 yards. Beyond 30 yards,the 550'strajectory will actually be flatter. Butthe 550 gn arrow will be boiling up 110 ft lbs at the bow vs only 70 ft lbs for the 350 gn arrow. That's not possible if you're shooting the two arrows from the same bow.

What Iquestionis that the arrow's speed isn't constant. It begins slowing down as soon as it clears the string. It'll be flying slower at 10 yards than it was at the bow. Slower at 20 than it was at 10. Slower at 30 than it was at 20 and so on. And the speed degradation is greater for afaster arrow than it is for aslower one.

So, if the chart didn't take speed degradation into account, it isn't accurate. The question is, did the chart account for that or did it assume a constant arrow speed?

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

Once again you talk with your foot firmly planted in your mouth;) My 3d setup uses light arrows.

You most like the taste of toe jam.

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

Foam arrows aren't real arrows, Germ. Those are toys. We're talking about actual arrows. Now go climb back on your hobby horse. Powerpuff Girls will be on soon, and you won't want to miss the beginning.

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

Fran you have to admit that is one cool looking toy, and you know when the PPG are on[&:]

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

It is a cool toy. Kinda makes me wanna order one, then stop at the pet store and buy a parakeet or a rabbitand chase it through the house with a blitzkreig of Nerf Arrows.

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

elitist!

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

I'll try again. Did the graph take speed degradation into account????

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

Art: Roskoe and I answered that question before you asked it (pg. 1) - and no, it didn't, so that would yield longer flight times and make the drop numbers a shade higher than what's listed. Debatable, the impact on the results.

Conversely, the numbers do not account for the actual sight line vs. the actual trajectory path. That would distort the actual trajectory somewhat, and probably decrease the drop numbers by a hair.

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I see. Sothe chartcan only begood if you were shooting in a vacuum in an environment with 1 g of gravity. Unfortunately, there is usually air where I do my shooting, so I have to deal with drag.

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

Im sure it is going by ideal conditions, so Id assume no.

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

Look Artie - If the information provided doesn't satisfy your lofty expectations, you can feel free to make your own ballistics calculator - or file your complaints with their webmaster http://www.lmariana.com/traj.htm

Personally, I think it's a pretty fair indicator, based uponwell-established physical principles- and I've confirmed a lot of those numbers in real-life. Close enough for me.

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

Just noticed you came to the same conclusion. I assumed as much because materials were not mentioned so no drag coefficients would be considered. Or, unless, they used the same materials for all tests.

RE: More arrow speed drivel... Trajectory chart
 

Yeah, burnie, it slapped me in the face as soon as I looked at it. If the arrows were all shot from the same bow, that'd mean there was a huge difference in arrow weights. If it was all done assuming the same arrow weight, then there was a huge difference in draw weights and KE. No way it could be valid.