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PA Hunter dies in fall
http://www.wgal.com/news/14703081/detail.html
Another tragic fall claims a hunter. Does anyone know if any state out there has considered making a safety harness part of the game laws if hunting from an elevated stand. Would be tough to enforce I know because who wants a game officer walking up to his stand to check but man I hate reading this same story year after year. I worked with a young girl last year who came in crying her eyes out one day because her dad fell from his stand and they weren't sure if he would ever walk again. |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
That stinks for sure but,I don't think making additional laws would have any impact.Theguy that goes out there now feeling bulletproof and doesn't need to wear a harness will be the same guy who continues to do so in the future even with a law in place.That's my take anyway.
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RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
i also dont think a law like that would work. Too hard to enforce.
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RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
As a hunter safety instructor in Maryland they always sent us a recap and explaination of all hunting accidents. I'd guess over 90 percent of them are falls from treestands while not wearing a harness or belt or anything.Most involve home made stands. Another thing after reading these for a dozen years that pops out, is most hunting related accidents involve someone more likely to be over 40 or 50. That includes accidently gun shots and everything. It's you old dudes[&:] that get in trouble.
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RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
Wow thats to bad!!!! I have to say I have always wore the belt style and have hated the full body harness's. But this year the owner of WKP told us if we wanted to video for him we had to wear a full body harness for insurance purpose's and I hated every second of it till towards the end of season I am kinda getting used to it now and have adjusted to it and can't ever see me going back to just the belt style!!!! I guess it just takes making some of idots alittle longer!!! Walt
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RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
Walt I am with you on this bro and now If I dont wear one I do not feel right.
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RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
Back when I got certified to teach bowhunting safety courses, I was able to look at some accident statistics for NY state. (some years ago)
What I still remember is that of all the accidents hunting (including guns),a very highpercent were caused by people you hunt with. And not only that,most were caused by relatives. So not only is it the old dudes, but it's also people you hunt with. Actually the percentages are probably higher, now that I know more about how these things are supposed to be calculated. And lastly, every single accident could have been avoided by 3 standard safety practices. ( always treat gun as loaded, keep muzzle pointed in safe direction, know what you are shooting at (ie not blindly into brush)) Obviously I don't need to tell you this David, but just thought it might be interesting for others. I was quite surprised at the time, thought more of it was from other hunters in the field you didn't know... Note: I edited my percentages because I'm not certain of the exact numbers, it was 20 years ago...but it was still very surprising.Also I remember not seeing any treestand accident statistics like the other person said... |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
While tragic indeed, and I don't understand how someone could hunt without a harness, I don't think a law mandating them would be a good idea.
Just like helmets & seat belts, there should be no laws mandating them. |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
I think that belts are almost as dangerous as wearing nothing at all. We had a guy in eastern Iowa this year that fell and the belt slipped up under his arms and suffocated him. He woulda had alot better chance of surviving a fall. A harness is the only way to go when it comes to hunting safely IMHO. I wore a belt up until this year and I wear a harness now and will never go back to the belt. I work at a hospital and we have had at least 5 hunters come in this fall due to falling from there stands, one was on a hunt with a outfitter and was getting ready to get down and he unhooked his harness from the tree and the stand broke. It is scary to think something like that can happen.
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RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
It's hard to believe guys still hunt without a restraint of SOME sort. If you guys know anyone who thinks they are bullet proof tell them they are NOT fall proof as well.
Itook a guy to hunt out of one of my tree stands and he did not have a harness or belt. I walked him straight to a ground blind dispite his protests. I told him I wasn't dropping by to spoon feed him and it's not gonna be on my shoulders.  |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
Folks just a note but in New York state, and I think it is the same elsewhere treestand accidents are not included in the annual hunting accident statistics. also statistics show that one in three treestand users will fall in there lifetime, lets fix those numbers, Rope and prussik knot make it easy to be safe. Thanks for Your time...Ron
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RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
making a safety harness part of the game He made that comment when a lady ask to make snow sleds on thin ice illegal[&:] |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
You can't legislate stupidity, but you sure as hell can tax it.People pay "Stupid Taxes" everyday (late fees on credit cards, overdraft fees at the bank, outrageous interest rates, parking/speeding tickets, etc...) Stupid has a price, and treestand safetyisanother area where we could tap the coffers of the mentally challenged.
Treestand safety is a financial burden that is borne by everyone EXCEPT the victim. Think about it: These aren't the John D. Rockefellers of the world who are tumbling to their doom. These are blue-collar workin' folk with maybe a few grand in the bank, a pickup truck and maybe a little bit of home equity. These guys fall out of their stands and rack up several lifetimes' worth of medical costs, which are passed on to who? That's right. You. The taxpayer. The insurance buyer.Bend over, fellas. Congratulations, America: now YOU'RE stuckpaying somebody else's stupid tax. So, IMO, anything that can help stop it - I'm all for it. This is a high-stakes game, and millions of our dollars are put at risk by every guy who is too lazy or ignorantor stupid to strap in. Sure, the victim's life will be ruined, but I'm not really concerned about him. He took a known risk and lost. The real victims here are the working class folks who have to go out and pay outrageous insurance premiums b/c some fool racked up $375,000 in medical bills, without a penny in his pocket. It would also be a good door opener to establish reasonable cause for WCO's to spot-check hunters in the stand. A lot of you guys might not realize it, but a very high percentage of DUI and drug-relatedarrests were a direct result of seatbelt laws which permit troopers to establish cause to pull over suspicious vehicles, and perform a "seatbelt check." LOL Same thing here - a WCO wants to check a known poacher - he can now walk right up to his stand and ask to see his harness. That opens the door. |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
ORIGINAL: quiksilver You can't legislate stupidity, but you sure as hell can tax it.People pay "Stupid Taxes" everyday (late fees on credit cards, overdraft fees at the bank, outrageous interest rates, parking/speeding tickets, etc...) Stupid has a price, and treestand safetyisanother area where we could tap the coffers of the mentally challenged. Treestand safety is a financial burden that is borne by everyone EXCEPT the victim. Think about it: These aren't the John D. Rockefellers of the world who are tumbling to their doom. These are blue-collar workin' folk with maybe a few grand in the bank, a pickup truck and maybe a little bit of home equity. These guys fall out of their stands and rack up several lifetimes' worth of medical costs, which are passed on to who? That's right. You. The taxpayer. The insurance buyer.Bend over, fellas. Congratulations, America: now YOU'RE stuckpaying somebody else's stupid tax. So, IMO, anything that can help stop it - I'm all for it. This is a high-stakes game, and millions of our dollars are put at risk by every guy who is too lazy or ignorantor stupid to strap in. Sure, the victim's life will be ruined, but I'm not really concerned about him. He took a known risk and lost. The real victims here are the working class folks who have to go out and pay outrageous insurance premiums b/c some fool racked up $375,000 in medical bills, without a penny in his pocket. It would also be a good door opener to establish reasonable cause for WCO's to spot-check hunters in the stand. A lot of you guys might not realize it, but a very high percentage of DUI and drug-relatedarrests were a direct result of seatbelt laws which permit troopers to establish cause to pull over suspicious vehicles, and perform a "seatbelt check." LOL Same thing here - a WCO wants to check a known poacher - he can now walk right up to his stand and ask to see his harness. That opens the door. |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
Don't huntin plain view ofthe road, andthat won't be a problem.
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RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
We've got WAY too many laws on the books right now. Additional laws to protect the stupid from themselves is ludicrous.
Natural selection is alive and well. "Stupid Tax"? Do you just volunteer and have your wages garnished if you know you're mentally challenged? If A WCO/GW has reasonable cause to interrogate me.....then so be it. "Checking to see if I'm a dumbass" doesn't constitute reasonable cause. It constitutes harrassment in my eyes. |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
ORIGINAL: GMMAT We've got WAY too many laws on the books right now. Additional laws to protect the stupid from themselves is ludicrous. Natural selection is alive and well. "Stupid Tax"? Do you just volunteer and have your wages garnished if you know you're mentally challenged? If A WCO/GW has reasonable cause to interrogate me.....then so be it. "Checking to see if I'm a dumbass" doesn't constitute reasonable cause. It constitutes harrassment in my eyes. |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
So Jeff: When you get pulled over at a checkpoint to see if you're seatbelted - you feel as if you're being "harassed?"
...and people volunteer for the "Stupid Tax." They just can't seem to find enough ways to waste their money on their own stupidity. They get ripped off on every car they buy, they run over on their anytime minutes, lottery tickets, cigs, snuff, slot machines, they pay bills late, etc... |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
ORIGINAL: GMMAT We've got WAY too many laws on the books right now. Additional laws to protect the stupid from themselves is ludicrous. Natural selection is alive and well. "Stupid Tax"? Do you just volunteer and have your wages garnished if you know you're mentally challenged? If A WCO/GW has reasonable cause to interrogate me.....then so be it. "Checking to see if I'm a dumbass" doesn't constitute reasonable cause. It constitutes harrassment in my eyes. |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
Yeah, I don't think we need more laws. I know in PA and NY, it is not uncommon for a game officer to check your tags, so checking a harness would be just as easy. Despite your comment, Quiksilver, I have had game officers check my tags WAY off the main road.
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RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
So Jeff: When you get pulled over at a checkpoint to see if you're seatbelted - you feel as if you're being "harassed?" So yeah....I call it harrassment. |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
This absolutely wouldn't bea law to protect Stupid People from themselves. This would protect the American Working Class from the mentally deficient who can't figure out that it's not smart to climb 30' up a tree in a windstorm without a harness.
Think about who bears the burden in these situations. It's NOT the victim. That's for sure. To prove my point: I challenge any one of you to find me one instance of a treestand fall victim with a net worth of over 2 million dollars. Look at who is falling, and you'll see where the financial burden really lies. These are construction workers, millworkers, factory workers, salesmen, kids, retirees, etc... When I think about a law, I think about two things: Who is the REAL victim at the end of the day? How much does it really cost? I know 2 guys who have fallen. One has undergoneat least 2lumbar surgeries to repair degenerative tissues from his fall. Never worked again. Epidural injections every month. Hundreds of thousands in lifetime costs. The second kid is a quadriplegic. Visiting nurses for the rest of his life, spinal trauma surgery, lifeflight, months in hospital/rehabilitation, secondary problems due to paralysis. Now has the mental capacity of an 8 year old. His lifetime healthcare bill will be in the millions by the time he hits 40. Hunting is a privilege just like driving. So, if you think seatbelt laws are a good idea... Then logically, it only follows that you should likewise support a safety harness law. Safety belt laws are not in place to protect the driver from himself. They're in place to protect insurers from outrageous medical costs and to open the door for law enforcement to establish probable cause. |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
I’ve never looked at it from quick’s perspective. I don’t like gov’t regulation, but I also don’t like paying insurance and taxes.
Maybe the law should read that if you DON’T wear a harness, you must have sharp spikes around the base of your tree so that there are no costly medical bills? |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
ORIGINAL: quiksilver This absolutely wouldn't bea law to protect Stupid People from themselves. This would protect the American Working Class from the mentally deficient who can't figure out that it's not smart to climb 30' up a tree in a windstorm without a harness. Think about who bears the burden in these situations. It's NOT the victim. That's for sure. To prove my point: I challenge any one of you to find me one instance of a treestand fall victim with a net worth of over 2 million dollars. Look at who is falling, and you'll see where the financial burden really lies. When I think about a law, I think about two things: Who is the REAL victim? How much does it really cost? I know 2 guys who have fallen. One has undergoneat least 2lumbar surgeries to repair degenerative tissues from his fall. Never worked again. Epidural injections every month. Hundreds of thousands in lifetime costs. The second kid is a quadriplegic. Visiting nurses for the rest of his life, spinal trauma surgery, lifeflight, months in hospital/rehabilitation, secondary problems due to paralysis. Now has the mental capacity of an 8 year old. His lifetime healthcare bill will be in the millions by the time he hits 40. Hunting is a privilege just like driving. So, if you think seatbelt laws are a good idea... Then logically, it only follows that you should likewise support a safety harness law. Safety belt laws are not in place to protect the driver from himself. They're in place to protect insurers from outrageous medical costs and to open the door for law enforcement to establish probable cause. |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
ORIGINAL: rybohunter I’ve never looked at it from quick’s perspective. I don’t like gov’t regulation, but I also don’t like paying insurance and taxes. Maybe the law should read that if you DON’T wear a harness, you must have sharp spikes around the base of your tree so that there are no costly medical bills? |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
Well quick then where does it stop?
I agree with your point, but where does it stop? We might as well all just stay in our houses, because we might get hurt or die if we walk out. Wait I might die in my house. Should we have goverment inspect our houses so they are safe? Where does it stop? |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
Like I said, Fran....you need to go at it from adifferent angle. Law enforcement got the seatbelt checkpoints initiated to gain what was otherwise illegal entry into passenger vehicles. Teh "War on Drugs" crowd likely were the authors of this doctrine.
Maybe the insurance companies could lobby legislature to get "Dumbass hunter" checkpoints initiated ....so that WCO/GW's could harrass us, too, even on our own private land in our own trees. Or....we could just make everyone accountable for themselves and have your guy pay for his healthcare or die. There is no set remedy. Either way....we give up something. |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
Or....we could just make everyone accountable for themselves and have your guy pay for his healthcare or die. |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
to open the door for law enforcement to establish probable cause. (said in jest;)) |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
Wow. They should deffinatley make it a law to have to wear a saftey harness in your treestand, that way if its a rule a lot of people would rather wear one than have the risk of getting cought, no matter what the situation is.
Ryan. |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
fran when you have kids, I will give you this tip. One of the biggest killers under 2 for kids is Balloons. They bite them, they pop, kid gets scared, takes a deep breath in. Now balloon is stuck in the throat and a crowbar could not get it out. How many people do you see with a kid under 2 let play with a balloon in a resturant or at a park?
I suggest you use your citzens arrest powers next time you see this, go pimp slap the parents and take the ballon away;). BTW I must seem like the biggest pr!ck(I am) to people who try and give my kids a ballon at that age. I have popped them right in front of the person[8D] |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
What's next, though......floaties in the ocean? Mandatory helmets in cars (don't laugh)? Body must be covered from sun's harmful rays in Summer months? Fatty foods outlawed (Ask NY about this one;))?
TheMORE the US Gov't can stay the hell OUT of my life.....the better my quality of life will be. I'm a FIRM believer in this. |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
I'm a huge tightwad - so if a $10 harness will lower my cost of living - I'm all for it. I hate insurance, and I hate taxes.
Mark my words: If things keep going the way they're going, and people keep getting hurt and racking up huge medical bills,we WILL see the day when we each have to buy a hunting insurance policy every season. It won't be long before insurers start writing dangerous activity exclusions into their policies - and we'll have to cover those gaps with additional "hunting" policies. They're already built into many employment contracts... It's coming... Just something to roll around in your cranium. |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
They already do, Fran.
Try telling your carrier you're a smoker.;) Additional insurance premiums are WORLDS away from additional legislation, though. The taxes people pay on cigarettes (IMO) should be WHATEVER IT TAKES to make up for the losses healthcare facilities lose in un- and underinsured patients of smoking related illnesses. Let 'em pay "their" own way. |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
Weird how that works, eh?
I'm telling you guys: Hunting Insurance. If we don't do somethingsoon - it's coming. Either big brother steps in and mandates that we all buy a $10 harness... Or, we each pay $100 a year for a $1 Million hunting policy to cover the gaps in our coverage. You pick. Lots of people never thought we'd see the day for ATV insurance. Well, guess what?!? |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
ORIGINAL: quiksilver I'm a huge tightwad - so if a $10 harness will lower my cost of living - I'm all for it. I hate insurance, and I hate taxes. Mark my words: If things keep going the way they're going, and people keep getting hurt and racking up huge medical bills,we WILL see the day when we each have to buy a hunting insurance policy every season. It won't be long before insurers start writing dangerous activity exclusions into their policies - and we'll have to cover those gaps with additional "hunting" policies. They're already built into many employment contracts... It's coming... Just something to roll around in your cranium.  |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
I want to know where I can get a $10 harness. :DThem babies cost about $60-70 that I've seen. [8D]
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RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
My harness was ON SALE for $90!
Lots of people never thought we'd see the day for ATV insurance. Well, guess what?!? |
RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
Quick are you using a belt? If so you will just die slower, those things suck the life out of you if you where to fall[X(]
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RE: PA Hunter dies in fall
The harness that came with my stand is more likely to snag on one of the body straps in a fall than it is to work properly. I use a smaller harness that straps around my waist and legs, we used to call it a boatswain's chair. It has clips on the front, side and back. In the event of a fall, I might be hanging upside down for a minute, but there's nothing that's going to wrap around my neck choke me out.
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