Small shafts, fast bows and mostly close shots is all I've ever known in bowhunting.

I never knew the days of 230fps bows. My first bow was a Mathews 70# switchback. Now.....I can tell you....I see the flight of EVERY ARROW when I shoot my longbow. I know exactly where the arrow is at all times in flight.

So....I guess I can see where you guys are coming from.........."sort of". If you're shooting 300fps a/c/c's though, you lost me.

I shot ACC's the last 2 years, in the upper 290's. I could see them....I'm just thinking out loud here.....I wonder if there's something mechanically being done differently that is allowing1 person to see it and another not to......Follow through maybe??? I dunno, just thinking...

The last two years you killed how many deer, mobo? How many 3D tournaments. Just asking. Believe me....I'm not calling a friend out.....I just wanna know the number so that I can know how many times you've seen the POI/fletch "phenomenon" ocur. I promise.

I'm trying to learn something here. Like I said....I can tell you EXACTLY where the deer was hit.....EVERY deer I've everkilled. How do I know this if I don't see the arrow impact? I don't know....but I'm SURE I know where the POI is. I'm just not going to sit here and tell you I SEE it (physically).

Ummmmm.....let me think here.......2 this year and 3 last year, and one coyote last year. Saw everyone. 3D tournaments? I'm not big into that scene, but I've shot a few. Now on those it's different, for me anyway. When I shoot 3D (except the HNI G2G last June) I shoot all black fletch. Seeing the POI is nearly impossible, but I see the arrow in flight.

I'm not calling anyone out here either, but if you see the POI you have got to be seeing the arrow...possibly not in flight, but you're seeing it.....Or am I misunderstanding your point?

well thats good, meams your not peeking!

Don I don't know "how" I know.....but I KNOW I know where I hit the deer I'm shooting. I can say I've never seen the fletching impact ......but I have seen the hole open up on one doe. I've killed a lot of deer at close range, though....and I don't think the human eye can discern that visual at that distance. I just don't buy it.

I'm just discussing this Don....and I trust you know that. I'm trying to understand. I don't doubt people either: 1) see it....or 2) Think they see it.

No, I know we're discussing...it's all good. Actually, I'm finding it rather interesting.

Here's something....if If the human eye can't discern that, maybe you are seeing the fletch, not the hole open up????

I dunno, Don......Like I said....I've only seen the hole open up, once. But I can tell you exactly where I hit every deer. So....I'm seeing something....OR....I'm trusting my arrow hits where my pin WAS.....and I'm projecting that.

Good enough, and that could very well be. I know you know, but just to reiterate, I'm not arguing either....

You might be subconsciously seeing the arrow hit. If you know you hit the spot you were aiming for. When I practice concentrating on the flight of the arrow helps me stay on target ,or follow through. Either way you need to keep the pin on the intended target as much as possible,this goes back to good form!