Bowhunting and ethics.
11-09-2007, 04:52 PM
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Bowhunting and ethics.
For the record, I have only taken one shot over 30 yards in the feild on game after killing dozens of animals. So I am just reporting what I have seen.
But I have watched a few people take some long shots in fields etc. a few times. And one thing I notice is the animal does not spook at the report of the bow, near as bad as say up close. In fact, I have witnessed one 60 yard shot, and noticed in the time the arrow took to get there, the deer did not duck, or flinch, just looked at us before getting nailed. Could be a few things. Newer bows are much quieter. My old PSE is very loud. My Commander doesn't hardly make a noice. I remember my old PSE whitetail hunter used to scare me to death at the shot. No wonder deer would jump before the shot.
But I have taken shots at deer at like 15 yards with my old old compound, and the deer is alert looking right at me. And I know when I release they will jump forward and down. And sure enough they do.
Has anyone else noticed this or witnessed a long shot.
But I have watched a few people take some long shots in fields etc. a few times. And one thing I notice is the animal does not spook at the report of the bow, near as bad as say up close. In fact, I have witnessed one 60 yard shot, and noticed in the time the arrow took to get there, the deer did not duck, or flinch, just looked at us before getting nailed. Could be a few things. Newer bows are much quieter. My old PSE is very loud. My Commander doesn't hardly make a noice. I remember my old PSE whitetail hunter used to scare me to death at the shot. No wonder deer would jump before the shot.
But I have taken shots at deer at like 15 yards with my old old compound, and the deer is alert looking right at me. And I know when I release they will jump forward and down. And sure enough they do.
Has anyone else noticed this or witnessed a long shot.
11-09-2007, 05:07 PM
#42
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 9,445
RE: Bowhunting and ethics.
I myself haven't but a cousin of mine shoots a new Mathews, last year out west elk hunting in Montana he wounded 2 different elk at 45 yards and at 55 yards. He told me both shots the arrow was going perfect and just like that the bull took a stepandhe hit itback in the guts and the other he hit in theknuckle of the shoulder. He is an excellent shot while practicing at these ranges. He wasn't to happy!
11-09-2007, 06:30 PM
#43
Typical Buck
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Becker County, MN
Posts: 550
RE: Bowhunting and ethics.
ORIGINAL: bigcountry
For the record, I have only taken one shot over 30 yards in the feild on game after killing dozens of animals. So I am just reporting what I have seen.
But I have watched a few people take some long shots in fields etc. a few times. And one thing I notice is the animal does not spook at the report of the bow, near as bad as say up close. In fact, I have witnessed one 60 yard shot, and noticed in the time the arrow took to get there, the deer did not duck, or flinch, just looked at us before getting nailed. Could be a few things. Newer bows are much quieter. My old PSE is very loud. My Commander doesn't hardly make a noice. I remember my old PSE whitetail hunter used to scare me to death at the shot. No wonder deer would jump before the shot.
But I have taken shots at deer at like 15 yards with my old old compound, and the deer is alert looking right at me. And I know when I release they will jump forward and down. And sure enough they do.
Has anyone else noticed this or witnessed a long shot.
For the record, I have only taken one shot over 30 yards in the feild on game after killing dozens of animals. So I am just reporting what I have seen.
But I have watched a few people take some long shots in fields etc. a few times. And one thing I notice is the animal does not spook at the report of the bow, near as bad as say up close. In fact, I have witnessed one 60 yard shot, and noticed in the time the arrow took to get there, the deer did not duck, or flinch, just looked at us before getting nailed. Could be a few things. Newer bows are much quieter. My old PSE is very loud. My Commander doesn't hardly make a noice. I remember my old PSE whitetail hunter used to scare me to death at the shot. No wonder deer would jump before the shot.
But I have taken shots at deer at like 15 yards with my old old compound, and the deer is alert looking right at me. And I know when I release they will jump forward and down. And sure enough they do.
Has anyone else noticed this or witnessed a long shot.
11-09-2007, 09:07 PM
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Bowhunting and ethics.
ORIGINAL: Schultzy
I myself haven't but a cousin of mine shoots a new Mathews, last year out west elk hunting in Montana he wounded 2 different elk at 45 yards and at 55 yards. He told me both shots the arrow was going perfect and just like that the bull took a stepandhe hit itback in the guts and the other he hit in theknuckle of the shoulder. He is an excellent shot while practicing at these ranges. He wasn't to happy!
I myself haven't but a cousin of mine shoots a new Mathews, last year out west elk hunting in Montana he wounded 2 different elk at 45 yards and at 55 yards. He told me both shots the arrow was going perfect and just like that the bull took a stepandhe hit itback in the guts and the other he hit in theknuckle of the shoulder. He is an excellent shot while practicing at these ranges. He wasn't to happy!
11-09-2007, 09:42 PM
#45
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blissfield MI USA
Posts: 5,293
RE: Bowhunting and ethics.
Time of flight for an arrow moving at 250 fps which I would consider average for modern set ups is around half a second for a 50 yard shot. That is not a lot of time, especially for a relaxed deer. And at 30 yards its a hair under 4 seconds. I don't think a few 10ths of a second is going to make a huge difference in a deers reaction time.
And for the record I don't "wing" arrows at 40 and 50 yards and am rather offended at being told that. As unbelievable as it is to some there are quite a few people that practice a lot at ranges that far and beyond and are actually quite good at it. And for anyone that is willing to go out with a recurve and shoot without sights at 20 yards and tell me shooting with a modern compound with sights is unethical is a hypocrite.
And I honestly get tired of people throwing the "jumping the string" thing around. I have never seen a deer jump the string. And I have ran video for a buddy that shoots a bow that sounds like a 2x4 hitting an old screen door. I'm not saying it never happens, but I bet 9 out of 10 times the person just missed, period. I have seen studies on deer jumping the string and done some of the calculations myself and came to the same conclusion. For most deer to have the reaction time and be able to move enough to duck an arrow out of a modern bow they would have defy the laws of physics to do it.
I think in most cases someone miss judges the yardage, forgets to bend at the waste or screws the shot up at the last second. They see the deer jump as the arrow hits them (in a bad spot usually) and just assume the deer ducked the shot. Mostly because they don't want to believe they messed up.
My opinions anyway.
Paul
And for the record I don't "wing" arrows at 40 and 50 yards and am rather offended at being told that. As unbelievable as it is to some there are quite a few people that practice a lot at ranges that far and beyond and are actually quite good at it. And for anyone that is willing to go out with a recurve and shoot without sights at 20 yards and tell me shooting with a modern compound with sights is unethical is a hypocrite.
And I honestly get tired of people throwing the "jumping the string" thing around. I have never seen a deer jump the string. And I have ran video for a buddy that shoots a bow that sounds like a 2x4 hitting an old screen door. I'm not saying it never happens, but I bet 9 out of 10 times the person just missed, period. I have seen studies on deer jumping the string and done some of the calculations myself and came to the same conclusion. For most deer to have the reaction time and be able to move enough to duck an arrow out of a modern bow they would have defy the laws of physics to do it.
I think in most cases someone miss judges the yardage, forgets to bend at the waste or screws the shot up at the last second. They see the deer jump as the arrow hits them (in a bad spot usually) and just assume the deer ducked the shot. Mostly because they don't want to believe they messed up.
My opinions anyway.
Paul
11-10-2007, 04:56 AM
#46
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 36
RE: Bowhunting and ethics.
ORIGINAL: bawanajim
Some people learn theirlimitations other just keep testing theirs, the deer pay the hard price.
Bow hunting is an up close and personal thing learn it and love it.
Get close, get a gun or get out.
Some people learn theirlimitations other just keep testing theirs, the deer pay the hard price.
Bow hunting is an up close and personal thing learn it and love it.
Get close, get a gun or get out.
11-10-2007, 07:15 AM
#47
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 9,445
RE: Bowhunting and ethics.
ORIGINAL: bigcountry
You don't really believe him do ya?
ORIGINAL: Schultzy
I myself haven't but a cousin of mine shoots a new Mathews, last year out west elk hunting in Montana he wounded 2 different elk at 45 yards and at 55 yards. He told me both shots the arrow was going perfect and just like that the bull took a stepandhe hit itback in the guts and the other he hit in theknuckle of the shoulder. He is an excellent shot while practicing at these ranges. He wasn't to happy!
I myself haven't but a cousin of mine shoots a new Mathews, last year out west elk hunting in Montana he wounded 2 different elk at 45 yards and at 55 yards. He told me both shots the arrow was going perfect and just like that the bull took a stepandhe hit itback in the guts and the other he hit in theknuckle of the shoulder. He is an excellent shot while practicing at these ranges. He wasn't to happy!
11-10-2007, 08:01 AM
#48
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 113
RE: Bowhunting and ethics.
Lets just say someone i hunt with took a 50 yard shot hit the deer, he was bleeding and tracked him all afternoon and still got away. in my head thats why i dont shoot over 30. i dont want to shoot a deer that is not going to drop fast, its not fair to the deer to make them suffer. its not just aboutbragging rights, they hurt to!
11-10-2007, 08:08 AM
#49
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,867
RE: Bowhunting and ethics.
what makes someone a jackass for using a gun some places you can not get close enough for a bow and in some areas the terrain is so hard it is near impossible to get to those good areas where the deer just hang out
it is unethical for you to put down other hunters for using legal and ethical means to hunt
it is unethical for you to put down other hunters for using legal and ethical means to hunt
ORIGINAL: kingvjack
Where does the line lay now with bowhunting and ethics? More or less I mean... how far is too far when it comes to bow hunting?
By nature and upbringing... I see no reason to shoot at an animal more than 35 yards away... and thats the extent at witch I will draw and shoot on a deer... I can get close, and i know I can kill at 15 - 20. 40 and 60 yard shots seem way too unethical for me to even talk about. Too much can go wrong, the possibility of wounding an animal is elevated about 50%.
So, just because you can hit a target at that distance, why would you shoot an animal that far?
Any jackass can kill with a gun from 50 to 200 yards... I thought the magic of bowhunting was supposed to be up close and personal? The cream of the crop?
Where does the line lay now with bowhunting and ethics? More or less I mean... how far is too far when it comes to bow hunting?
By nature and upbringing... I see no reason to shoot at an animal more than 35 yards away... and thats the extent at witch I will draw and shoot on a deer... I can get close, and i know I can kill at 15 - 20. 40 and 60 yard shots seem way too unethical for me to even talk about. Too much can go wrong, the possibility of wounding an animal is elevated about 50%.
So, just because you can hit a target at that distance, why would you shoot an animal that far?
Any jackass can kill with a gun from 50 to 200 yards... I thought the magic of bowhunting was supposed to be up close and personal? The cream of the crop?
11-10-2007, 08:26 AM
#50
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
Posts: 26,274
RE: Bowhunting and ethics.
ORIGINAL: bigcountry
For the record, I have only taken one shot over 30 yards in the feild on game after killing dozens of animals. So I am just reporting what I have seen.
But I have watched a few people take some long shots in fields etc. a few times. And one thing I notice is the animal does not spook at the report of the bow, near as bad as say up close. In fact, I have witnessed one 60 yard shot, and noticed in the time the arrow took to get there, the deer did not duck, or flinch, just looked at us before getting nailed. Could be a few things. Newer bows are much quieter. My old PSE is very loud. My Commander doesn't hardly make a noice. I remember my old PSE whitetail hunter used to scare me to death at the shot. No wonder deer would jump before the shot.
But I have taken shots at deer at like 15 yards with my old old compound, and the deer is alert looking right at me. And I know when I release they will jump forward and down. And sure enough they do.
Has anyone else noticed this or witnessed a long shot.
For the record, I have only taken one shot over 30 yards in the feild on game after killing dozens of animals. So I am just reporting what I have seen.
But I have watched a few people take some long shots in fields etc. a few times. And one thing I notice is the animal does not spook at the report of the bow, near as bad as say up close. In fact, I have witnessed one 60 yard shot, and noticed in the time the arrow took to get there, the deer did not duck, or flinch, just looked at us before getting nailed. Could be a few things. Newer bows are much quieter. My old PSE is very loud. My Commander doesn't hardly make a noice. I remember my old PSE whitetail hunter used to scare me to death at the shot. No wonder deer would jump before the shot.
But I have taken shots at deer at like 15 yards with my old old compound, and the deer is alert looking right at me. And I know when I release they will jump forward and down. And sure enough they do.
Has anyone else noticed this or witnessed a long shot.
And for the record, ive shot only 2 animals out at 60 yards, hogs. Hogs dont jump period. And if you have ever hunted hogs, you will have no question on the action of a hog. Deer, my max has been 45 yardswith a compound, 20 yards with my recurves. Most of my shots are at 35, I live in west Texas and if you wait for a 15 yard shot, you will wait all season. Its not unusual to be hunting in nothing but tall grass. Go up to the Texas pan handle some times to see how many trees we have.