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RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
Well folks here we go. First and foremost lets look at the title of this thread "ethics". We could go round and round (which we have) about this. Every person is goin to be different and have different opinions. As for the Missouri law I believe it may actually be true. I used to help my Uncle with the hunter education courses in our county and I distinctly remember something aout that. I am reading the regulations to double check.
And Talondale made some good points. One of the reason for tags isto keeprecords on the number of deer taken. Now i'm not for sure if one tag would make a difference persay but who knows. After reading the 2007 wildlife code of Missouri it states that "(8) Hunters who kill or injure a deermust make a reasonable effort to retrieve and tag it, but this does not authorize trespass." |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
Does everyone agree that a pass-thru, gut-shot deer is a dead deer walking? If you do this and know it.....do you feel an obligation to report/tag this deer? I fully understand that some states' regs say that it must be recovered.....but this is an ethical conundrum, isn't it? If this were to occur....would you still use the tag you didn't use on this deer? |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
Here in Ohio an animal must accompany the tag. Go in without an animal and the counter help may self destruct right there from not knowing what to do next.:DI don't have the time or patience for that.
I will say this, people give up way to soon. Just for debate and nothing against Matt from Pa. Do you think he would have spent days looking for a lesser animal? Most would not. I also think the, wait for hours before tracking, is way over blown. |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
I used to work security for a company that had land that was just to tempting for poachers not to give a try.
I can distinctly remember 2 deer, a doe and a VERY large buck that ran around for a while with arrows sticking out of them. Deer, and people, can live through what some would call fatal wounds. In a city not to far from me, 2 guys shot each other numerous times with 9mm handguns at close range, and didn't turn themselves in for several days. My point here is that if you can't verify the kill, then you have no reason to tag it as a kill. Don't worry though, I'm sure the meat won't go to waste. |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
If you can't find it, you can't tag it... period. I have bow hunted for many years and lost a number of animals. In all cases, I blood trailed on my knees with a flash light or simply on my knees for as long as the blood held out. Then I circled and looked.After that I went into areas I thought the animal might be headed and circled and looked. I don't give up easy, because I have found some this way.
It all comes back to the inital shot, the placement and the ethics of taking it or not.... You are bound to lose some, bow hunter or gun... it's what you do after a marginal/mistake shot that counts. After all else fails, keep hunting. |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
No deer no tag.Man what is up with you are you trying to prove to everyone what an outstanding ethical hunter you are,pls stop we believe.
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RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
I asked an honest question.....not knowing even the laws of my own state. If the law say you have to recover an animal to tag it.....then so be it.
It was really a harmless question.....and I appreciate the responses. I learn something here most every day. If I know I killed a deer......I'm gonna call and ask the WRC what to do.....recovery or not. That isn't "noble". It is ethical (I "think"). I also think they'd want to know. |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
If you didnt find it then you cant tag it
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RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
At first, when I read the comment about Missouri requiring a hunter to tag an injured deer, I was skeptical. Honestly, I've never heard of such a thing.But I did a little research and while it seems like the statement COULD be accurate, from what I found, I remain skeptical. The Missouri Wildlife Code requires hunters who "take" a deer to tag it. But, look at the definition of "take." It does include injuring. But it alsoincludes pursuing, molesting and hunting. And "pursuing" would not require a hunter to tag an animalthat survived the pursuit. Maybe it is just sloppy drafting or maybe it is intentionally a broad definition.Or more likely, I am missing something.
Anyway, something like that would be taught in a hunter education class, right? And although it has been awhile since I went through hunter's ed, I don't recall that. But, from a common sense perspective,a reasonable hunter is not going to tag and claim that hekilled an animal he cannot find. Nor should that be required. Recovery is part of the formula. From the Wildlife Code: Hunters who take a deer must tag it immediately with the transportation tag portion of the permit; detaching the transportation tag voids the permit. Deer may be possessed and transported only by the taker until reported through the Telecheck Harvest Reporting System. All deer taken must be accurately reported through the Telecheck Harvest Reporting System by 10:00 p.m. on the day taken by the taker or in the taker’s immediate presence. The Telecheck confirmation number must be recorded immediately on the deer hunting permit as indicated on the permit, and immediately attached to the deer by the taker. The transportation tag and deer hunting permit with confirmation number must remain attached to the intact or field-dressed carcass until the deer is processed. All deer must be reported through the Telecheck Harvest Reporting System prior to processing or being removed from the state. --- (54) Take or taking: Includes killing, trapping, snaring, netting or capturing in any manner, any wildlife, and also refers to pursuing, molesting, hunting, wounding; or the placing, setting or use of any net, trap, device, contrivance or substance in an attempt to take; and every act of assistance to every other person in taking or attempting to take any wildlife. |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
This is getting a little too weird for me. No deer, no tag. Still dont feel good about doing it, and never will. First thing I was tought after weapon safety was to NEVER shoot another animal until youve found the first one. That right there is the ethical part of this conversation.
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RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
ORIGINAL: Mizzouhunter At first, when I read the comment about Missouri requiring a hunter to tag an injured deer, I was skeptical. Honestly, I've never heard of such a thing.But I did a little research and while it seems like the statement COULD be accurate, from what I found, I remain skeptical. The Missouri Wildlife Code requires hunters who "take" a deer to tag it. But, look at the definition of "take." It does include injuring. But it alsoincludes pursuing, molesting and hunting. And "pursuing" would not require a hunter to tag an animalthat survived the pursuit. Maybe it is just sloppy drafting or maybe it is intentionally a broad definition.Or more likely, I am missing something. Anyway, something like that would be taught in a hunter education class, right? And although it has been awhile since I went through hunter's ed, I don't recall that. But, from a common sense perspective,a reasonable hunter is not going to tag and claim that hekilled an animal he cannot find. Nor should that be required. Recovery is part of the formula. From the Wildlife Code: Hunters who take a deer must tag it immediately with the transportation tag portion [align=left]of the permit; detaching the transportation[/align][align=left]tag voids the permit. Deer may be possessed[/align][align=left]and transported only by the taker until[/align][align=left]reported through the Telecheck Harvest[/align][align=left]Reporting System. All deer taken must be[/align][align=left]accurately reported through the Telecheck[/align][align=left]Harvest Reporting System by 10:00 p.m. on[/align][align=left]the day taken by the taker or in the taker’s[/align][align=left]immediate presence. The Telecheck confirmation[/align][align=left]number must be recorded immediately[/align][align=left]on the deer hunting permit as indicated on[/align][align=left]the permit, and immediately attached to the[/align][align=left]deer by the taker. The transportation tag and[/align][align=left]deer hunting permit with confirmation number[/align][align=left]must remain attached to the intact or[/align][align=left]field-dressed carcass until the deer is[/align][align=left]processed. All deer must be reported through[/align][align=left]the Telecheck Harvest Reporting System[/align][align=left]prior to processing or being removed from[/align][align=left]the state.[/align] --- [align=left](54) Take or taking: Includes killing, trapping,[/align][align=left]snaring, netting or capturing in any[/align][align=left]manner, any wildlife, and also refers to pursuing,[/align][align=left]molesting, hunting, wounding; or the[/align][align=left]placing, setting or use of any net, trap,[/align][align=left]device, contrivance or substance in an[/align][align=left]attempt to take; and every act of assistance to[/align][align=left]every other person in taking or attempting to[/align][align=left]take any wildlife.[/align] |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
Here in Illinois you can buy as many doe tags as you want, and the only thing the law states is that you have to make a reasonable attempt at finding your deer and tresspassing isnt allowed.Personaly Im not going to tear off my tag and throw it in the garbage just because I couldnt find a deer I shot. I think the real ethical question here is, did you look long and hard enough for that deer. Weather or not you use that tag is irrelavent. If you looked as hard as you can and tried as hard as you possibly could to find that deer then your a hell of a guy, I could care less if you mark you tag filled.
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RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
This Ethics stuff is going to drive me to drink:D
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RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
Heck no you don't tag something you didn't recover. I'll take it a step further. If when I found it the meat is bad I wouldn't be tagging it either. A tag is a a possession permit. It allows you to have, butcher, mount or whatever if that's your thing. I say if you don't find a critter in time to eat it... it's a found animal, lost or something. It certainly isn't a kill. That is of course assuming your not hunting in an area that states if you draw blood your tag is filled. I don't hunt in any of those. And for those that say if you kill it it should be tagged. Are you willingto waste a tag ona deer you may run into with your car????
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RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
I agree with Davidmil as well - I wouldn't ever, ever "tag" a deer I didn't lay my hands on - its not even an ethical discussion in my mind.
A better (harder) question - what do you do if you find "your" deer 1-2 weeks later? Then what? FH |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
Farm, if I don't find it in edible condition,... I consider it a screw up and a lost deer. Just lucky to find the critter after the fact if you want some peace of mind or a horn for the shed bin. Pope and Young does it about the same way. Remember a couple years ago they wouldn't include that big deer the guy shot and found 2 days later... or rather a farmer found it. The best they'd give it was a FOUND.
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RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
Read this story and tell me, "Who was the one legal tag on this buck". Certainly not the first. They didn't find him. http://mikehanback.blogs.com/bigbuckzone/2007/07/would-you-shoot.html
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RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
ORIGINAL: davidmil Remember a couple years ago they wouldn't include that big deer the guy shot and found 2 days later... or rather a farmer found it. The best they'd give it was a FOUND. |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
I've feel bad about the 5 road kill deer I've gotten but I'm not going to be hunting for the next 5 yrs for nothing in voiding my tag. I've even utilized some of these deer.
Just because you may think you made a killing shot on a deer it may not actually be its death as coyotes, wolves and such have a way weeding out the weak, but its not going waste. Bobby |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
ORIGINAL: 121553 I've feel bad about the 5 road kill deer I've gotten... I'm just kidding. I know that in the Upper Penninsula of Michigan, there are very few drivers without at least one car vs deer accident to their credit. |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
ORIGINAL: davidmil And for those that say if you kill it it should be tagged. Are you willingto waste a tag ona deer you may run into with your car???? |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
GMMAT
Do you pay taxes on money that you didn't make? Hmmm.... |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
BLOODY MARY TIME
ORIGINAL: Germ This Ethics stuff is going to drive me to drink:D |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
ORIGINAL: 121553 I've feel bad about the 5 road kill deer I've gotten but I'm not going to be hunting for the next 5 yrs for nothing in voiding my tag. I've even utilized some of these deer. 2 different things here. |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
ORIGINAL: FRALEY BLOODY MARY TIME ORIGINAL: Germ This Ethics stuff is going to drive me to drink:D |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
ORIGINAL: mobowhuntr In MO, it's law that you are supposed to tag any animal you hit, whether you recover them or not.... GMMAT per the Missouri Law you more than did what you are required to do. You made more than an honost effert to recover the deer. A 5 hour grid serch is more than what most would to recover a deer. You were unable to find it. That happens. I personally think you have ethically done what you needed to do. (8) Hunters who kill or injure a deer must make a reasonable effort to retrieve and tag it, but this does not authorize trespass.(9) Hunters who take a deer must tag it immediately with the transportation tag portion of the permit; detaching the transportation tag voids the permit. Deer may be possessed and transported only by the taker until reported through the Telecheck Harvest Reporting System. All deer taken must be accurately reported through the Telecheck Harvest Reporting System by 10:00 p.m. on the day taken by the taker or in the taker’s immediate presence. The Telecheck confirmation number must be recorded immediately on the deer hunting permit as indicated on the permit, and immediately attached to the deer by the taker. The transportation tag and deer hunting permit with confirmation number must remain attached to the intact or field-dressed carcass until the deer is processed. All deer must be reported through the Telecheck Harvest Reporting System prior to processing or being removed from the state. |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
ORIGINAL: farm hunter A better (harder) question - what do you do if you find "your" deer 1-2 weeks later? Then what? FH Jeff, you are overthinking this stuff WAY too much!You act asif the DNR is a god and willcomdemnyou if you don't tally every deer death you are responsible for.They realize these exact situations mayoccur and I'm sure they have some way of accounting for it (estimate). |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
So you find your deer 2 weeks later, Duc....and KNOW it's the same deer you killed, earlier.....and you keep hunting with that tag?
No wrong answer to that question, I guess. Me......I get two bucks/season in my zone (Eastern zones get 4). If I were to arrow an 8-pointer (for the sake of the scenario depicted).....and find him 2 weeks later......I now (in my eyes) have 1 buck tag left.....and I report the 1st kill. I killed it. I need to tag it. I'm not passing judgement on you.....just saying what I would do. |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
So you find your deer 2 weeks later, Duc....and KNOW it's the same deer you killed, earlier.....and you keep hunting with that tag? Honestly, I didn't need a reg. book to answer that question. I already knew what I would do no matter what the book said. Call me unethical but it just doesn't make sense to me to tag something you can't use or enjoy! Me......I get two bucks/season in my zone (Eastern zones get 4). If I were to arrow an 8-pointer (for the sake of the scenario depicted).....and find him 2 weeks later......I now (in my eyes) have 1 buck tag left.....and I report the 1st kill. I killed it. I need to tag it. Perhaps I don't give a darn about antlers and I found that 8 pointer a couple weeks later like you say. Then I wouldn't tag it.Why not Duc...its a buck ? No, just a doe with antlers. I would treat them both equally in the above situation. |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
To answer your question,
Nope. I would only tag something I kep, either meat or horns if it were a buck I found 2 weeks later.. I'd tag it in order to legally keep the horns... |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
Like I said....no wrong answer....but you're admitting to treating a buck and a doe, differently....unless I'm missing something.
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RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
No, he isn't treating them different. He is saying that if he can't use the meat(doe) then there is no sense in tagging it. If he wants to transport the antlers to the taxi, then he legally must use his tag to do so. At least that is what I got from it.
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RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
ORIGINAL: GMMAT Like I said....no wrong answer....but you're admitting to treating a buck and a doe, differently....unless I'm missing something. Hope that makes sense. I'll check this later. Heading out to the woods right now. Donnie |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
PREACHER TONYYYYYYYYYY
*Does the sign of the cross* |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
Somebody please insult Jeff again, so that we can get another 8 pages out of this.
I figure by Page 30, we will have shifted the discussion to defining the words "wounded" and "grid search," and Jeff will be running through the woods with a stopwatch, timing his recovery operations to the 1/100th of a second for documentary purposes. |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
ORIGINAL: FRALEY PREACHER TONYYYYYYYYYY *Does the sign of the cross* LOL!!! your doing well, T ..... keep it up!:D |
RE: Ethics question - Tagging deer
I don’t tag any deer unless I kill them legally.
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