RE: Shoot ourself in our own feet. No offense rob.
 

Thanks, I think...

RE: Shoot ourself in our own feet. No offense rob.
 

I agree. I've lost a few good spots because the land owners hear about some jerk tearing up a neighboring farmers land or shooting at cattle.

RE: Shoot ourself in our own feet. No offense rob.
 

Shooting at cattle, wow what a lowlife

RE: Shoot ourself in our own feet. No offense rob.
 

Had a similar reply prepared but thought it was too much so i settled with "it's a good reminder". Glad you said it.

Were supposed to tolerate all kinds of people why are hunters any different? Start acting whipped. Start acting like were walking on egg shells and people will push it as far as it can go untill we are no more. Everything right with being respectful to our neighbors, but were just people who need as much slak as anyone else.

RE: Shoot ourself in our own feet. No offense rob.
 

"The weak link of the gene pool"....

We have a saying out west. It goes something like this: 100% of the elk are killed by 10% of the hunters". This, of course, is an annual occurence.

10-15% of the population are hunters. 10-15% are anti hunters. That leaves 70-80% sitting somewhere on the fence.

I'm just curious why someone would patronize that 70-80%? The last time I checked we evolved from a social order primarily based upon HUNTING AND GATHERING. Whereas, the GATHERS accounted for 80 % of the subsistance.

Seems that "80" number has been around for some time.

The way I see it, 80% of the population dictatesWHAT I can and cannot hunt,WHEN I can and cannot hunt,WHERE I can and cannot hunt,HOWI CAN AND CANNOT HUNT, AND LASTLY, WHYI CAN AND CANNOT HUNT. The last thing I want to do is tell them they're the weak link in the gene pool! If you think this isn't serious, then take a real quick look at the number of countries which allow bowhunting in Europe! There is a time and a place for everything. For goodness sake, exercise a little common sense! We are not on an islandnor do we not rely on survival of the fittest! If you think the people around us do notmerit respect, then go ahead andupset them-ruin it for all of us!

Hunting is like passing gas. It happens and sometimes it's necessary. But it is not something you want to do in someone's face! Especially when that someone has the ability toinsert a plug!

Common sense.....Here's a link:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/14094298/detail.html

This is happening in my home county. If Anita Moss and her husband are successful (jury was told they're part of the weak gene pool), can you imagine the precedence this will establish. Hunting across this great nation will be in seriously jeopardy! It will only take one person to "feel" unsafe! All public lands around this person will be closed to hunting forever! You think it serious enough torefrain from callingthem cavemen?

Damn straight, I am a hunter and I want to keep it that way! If I have to dance with a less than perfect (Ugly) girl now and then, then so be it!

RE: Shoot ourself in our own feet. No offense rob.
 

Well said, huck....

And KP....with all due respect...

No, they kill them.....but the lion doesn't have to worry about thegiraffe taking away his right to hunt the gazelle.

RE: Shoot ourself in our own feet. No offense rob.
 

I agree with the article

RE: Shoot ourself in our own feet. No offense rob.
 

I agree and wrote an article kind of like this:
In my world I can categorize all people into four categories.
First you have the Hunter. This is a person who respects his or her game, the game laws, and all resources available to him or her. This person strives to make good ethical decisions in all aspects of hunting. This person will ask permission to use land; ensure to keep his or her hunting area cleaner than it was when they arrived. This person respects the laws and understands that the laws are there to help keep our heritage alive and well. This person despises poaching, wasting meat, unethical ‘hunters’, and does their best to prevent such acts. A hunter will in someway give back to the future generations of hunters. This is exhibited by obeying laws and making good decisions, becoming a mentor, or by teaching their own children our ways.

Second you have Slob Hunters. These are mostly the weekend warriors. They take out their rifles during bow season. They spot light. They poach. They kill more than they are allowed. They trespass. They steal. They kill anything that walks out. Generally the Motto and mentality during hunting is: “If it’s brown, it’s down.” They lie. They cheat. They do not perfect their shots. They wound animals. They prefer not to read animal signs. They are often inexperienced trackers. They do not know what the art of hunting really is. They are slowing killing us!

Thirdly you have the Non-Hunters. These are the majority of people. They don’t hunt, but are not exactly against hunting. These are the fence riders. If we don’t do what we as Hunters are supposed to do when we encounter a Non-Hunter, we could push them to the other side. They could help us or hurt us. It all depends on how we treat them, act around them, maintain ourselves around them.

Lastly there are Anti-Hunters. They believe killing an animal is wrong. Murder even. They will never understand our passion, our heritage, or our rights. These people strive each and every day to end to the sport we love and minimize the number of hunters.

The Non-Hunter is the category we need to be very conscience about. We need to ensure we make good decisions always. I know when I take an animal I have a sense of pride about it. But there are a few things we can do to help ourselves when we exhibit our trophies. We should not display our harvests to people who do not want to see it. We need to be careful about what we allow to be seen. We also need to be careful about what we are seen doing.
Remember when the media reports about a poacher, they will and do, call him or her a Hunter. We know a poacher is NOT a hunter, but the Non-Hunters may not. This may influence them. How many “good” stories have you heard on the radio, TV, or read in the newspaper about a Hunter? Very few if any. However, we have all heard about the “hunter” who shot other hunters over an argument about a deer stand, or that local poacher that the media called a “hunter.”

RE: Shoot ourself in our own feet. No offense rob.
 

Huckleberry,
“the weak” were not defined as “all non hunters” in my post. They were the people who are easily swayed to an extreme end of a given topic and represent a very small percentage of society. Perhaps I didn’t get that point across very well, or you didn’t take the time to read it, and comprehend it. But, my point is, I am not going to base my decision or actions on what these people are going to do or say. They will always be there, doing what they feel that they should be doing. I’ve got too much that I need to do, and want to do in my life, to waste any time dealing with them. They are not worthy of my time.
On to the other 80% you referenced, it is my opinion that we should not pretend that we don’t exist or hide from them. You mentioned common sense, and I agree, and stated that I agreed with the original post, and or its reference material. I’m not, and I didn’t state that you should in any way flaunt hunting or killing. However, I do believe that if you try to hide, cover-up, or sugar coat anything, it is perceived as doing something wrong, and we should be careful not to portray the image that we’re doing something wrong. We’re not doing anything wrong. We are celebrating our existence, no matter what you found “the last time you checked.”

Do you know how people came to inhabit North America? In case you don’t I’ll give you the short version; we (humans, the only remaining form of hominids) followed migratory big game animals. The men were the hunters (which I guess may be the 20% you mentioned) the women and children were gatherers, I guess, I mean what else are they going to do while the men are hunting (anyway the other 80% perhaps)? We followed these animals across the Bering Strait each year and then back into Russia and we did this for a very long time. In fact we did this until the ice/snow bridge melted away at the end of the ice age, and some of use were stuck, here, in North America. Those people eventually settled down and started hunting other animals, such as the white tail deer. They were the first to plant roots in north America and decide to not migrate. They were later known as the Pueblos. What does this have to do with anything you ask? We weren’t crossing the Bering Strait twice a year (long journey) to gather as you mentioned, or implied. Unless we were gathering ice and snow…

But, to not disagree totally, even longer ago, we were primarily gatherers, but then we became scavengers also, with a new taste for meat. And finally we liberated ourselves into hunters. In my opinion, this was the biggest step in mans history, and the events that lead up to become hunters, and our travels there after, are most likely the only reason that we are the extant hominid. Therefore I will celebrate the accomplishments of those before me. If you want to cower in the face of the liberals who act as if they’re doing you a favor by allowing you to hunt, go ahead, that is your right. But I will not, I will be proud of who I am and I will continue to not hide what I do. Sure I’ll do it with a level of respect, but I will not budge on what I think is my right. My right as an American, and my right as a man.

I’ve quoted myself to make it easy for you to reread what I originally wrote, if you’re interested.

Respectfully,

KP

P.S. GMMAT, The lion doesn’t fear the giraffe, and neither should you.

RE: Shoot ourself in our own feet. No offense rob.
 

KP,

Respectfully, I do not need a history lesson. I've been there done that-trust me. That was then and this is now! Yes, we have evolved as hominids. Correct me if I'm wrong,arewe notan industrial based society presently? That is ahuge step for subsistance hunting and gathering. And hunters were not the sole reason we are where we areTODAY (maybe then but not now).Asan industrail based society,is the need for subsistance hunting and gather necessary (I think not). Darwinism pushes aside those that are not fit. Are we as hunters fit in this society? Yes, I agree, we should not cower in the face of liberals. However, you must concede we should act with prudence. I am not against you. I am with you. I like hunting and I want it to be around for eternity.

I cannot help but to get the image of some Neanderthal standing on a soap box ranting and raving about his past and celebrating his existence...while, all the home sapien sapiens are saying "yeah, whatever".

RE: Shoot ourself in our own feet. No offense rob.
 

You will be kissing their ...if they become the majority. And if they become the majority (if they aren't already), attitudes like this will not help our cause.

And someday, they won't give a ... about what you think, if they don't already. Congratulations, that attitude could help marginalize the opinions of hunters.


The bottom-line is that hunters can be our own worst enemies. It is acceptable to be politically correct to preserve our hunting traditions.

I'm a graduate student in law school and am probably one of the few hunters in the room. I would speculate that I am the only bowhunter in the room. Hunting has come up several times in our classroom discussions of liability, etc. And I stand there and defend hunting in front of 75 other really, bright, ambitious nonhunters. And I can't stand there and say "Kiss my anything." I can't say "I don't give a crap about your opinions." That is simply not the way to approach the problem. Instead, with a little mutual respect, we can have mature conversations about hunting. And you would be surprised as to the number of individuals that are open to hunting. In fact, because of what I have said in class, a couple of students have offered to let me hunt their land. Those privileges and opportunities were the result of not being disrespectful and being politically correct.

There is a time and place for everything. Yes, saying 'harvest' instead of 'kill' sort of desensitizes the whole process. But most people sort of get the idea. Something is killed. Something dies. Whack 'em and stack 'em is sort of desensitizing in the other direction.

Sorry for the rant, but it is our responsiblility to beaware of how are actions are perceived. That doesn't mean we have to change them, but we can't exactlysay"To heck with them" either.

RE: Shoot ourself in our own feet. No offense rob.
 

Farmcntry.. Their is a group of hunters who fallbetween the categories of Hunter and slob hunter. These guys don't put in a lot of time and usually hunt during rifle. They are well meaning ethical sportsman who are just not quite "into" it as many of us are.
We have to cater to the weekend warriors a bit as they are strong allies. There are lots of regular Joe's out there and we need them.
The fact is that the article reflects what so many non hunters see. The pics in general are not pretty but either is a slaughter house. I hate the idea of having to hide my success under a tarp in the back of the truck. I have done nothing wrong but still hide from the anti's.
I have taken all the hunting related bumper stickers and decals off my truck and replaced them with real earthy crunchy Nature Conservancy and Audubon stickers. I am misleading them to my benefit but know one even thinks about you if your bird watching.

RE: Shoot ourself in our own feet. No offense rob.
 

No apoligizes on here. As I am not apoligizing this is the way I am. I do not suck up to people and do not kiss peoples arses because they do not like what I am doing I am just not going to talk to them. Luckily I leave in a small town and do not have to worry about it because 90% of the people here hunt or have hunted all there lives. And like I said this people that are already antis do not care what you have to say because they are single minded people and do not want to see that hunting is necessary to keep their pretty little animals healthy and disease free.

RE: Shoot ourself in our own feet. No offense rob.
 

You have to fight fire with fire so to speak. The Anti's or other side whatever anyone wants to call them are misleading people about hunters everyday. Ilike your approach.

RE: Shoot ourself in our own feet. No offense rob.
 

Sometimes I cannot believe the ignorance that some people show. This guy who yelled from the back of the store probably didn't graduate kindergarten yet the lady that left the store has probably labeled all hunters as ignorant. Well we all know that couldn't be farther from the truth. This dude is probably one of those guys that has one tag and shoots three deer just because they stepped out in front of him.

I have a good saying that would explain this guy for you "Ignorance at it's Finest"

RE: Shoot ourself in our own feet. No offense rob.
 

"A chain is only as strong as its' weakest link"

;)