'Bowhunter', Say it isn't so.......
01-11-2003, 09:30 PM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Heaven IA USA
Posts: 2,597
RE: 'Bowhunter', Say it isn't so.......
Bowfanatic,
Of course there are more important things in life to complain about that goes without saying...However I am somewhat astonished that you are so quick to condemn your fellow brethren on their "everyday life ethics" yet at the same time turn a blind eye to marketing tactics that are less than forth coming and in some cases would appear to be illegal.
Of course there are more important things in life to complain about that goes without saying...However I am somewhat astonished that you are so quick to condemn your fellow brethren on their "everyday life ethics" yet at the same time turn a blind eye to marketing tactics that are less than forth coming and in some cases would appear to be illegal.
01-11-2003, 10:37 PM
#12
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Plano TX USA
Posts: 66
RE: 'Bowhunter', Say it isn't so.......
i dont see much of a problem with this either...
if u dont want to pay for the videos, dont. keep the one you have and dont pay for it. if you do this, in a way you will be boycotting their products as well.
if u have a problem with that, just throw it away or send it back. as its already been stated, you dont legally have to pay for it.
if u dont want to pay for the videos, dont. keep the one you have and dont pay for it. if you do this, in a way you will be boycotting their products as well.
if u have a problem with that, just throw it away or send it back. as its already been stated, you dont legally have to pay for it.
01-12-2003, 12:00 AM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Gleason, TN
Posts: 1,327
RE: 'Bowhunter', Say it isn't so.......
Outdoor life sent me one of those last year. I sent it back. But I kept the crappy little grunt call they sent with it. It doesn't even work anymore.
"Hey ya'll, watch this"
"Hey ya'll, watch this"
01-12-2003, 12:01 AM
#14
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jackson, Missouri
Posts: 7,051
RE: 'Bowhunter', Say it isn't so.......
Antler Eater, I too am appalled, shocked, saddened and outraged that you would... have anyone think you're overreacting to this situation! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Seriously though, you've articulated one of the biggest problems which most Americans past and present have fallen prey to. I'm not sure if it's unawareness as much as it is apathy.
Remember the old analogy of how to cook a frog? You throw him in a pot of boiling water, he jumps right out. Put him in a pot of cool water and turn the temperature up a few degrees at a time, and he acclimates himself all the way 'til he croaks and floats upside down.
It IS outrageous to expect me to be responsible to pay -- out of my own pocket -- (and to take your precious time, which costs me WAY more!) to bother with sending something back so I'm not charged with it when it comes UNSOLICITED!
Rack-attack is exactly right in companies being able to transcend this methodology of "advertising" and "selling" to other mediums if people like Antler Eater don't stand up now. Frankly, as a business owner and someone who currently makes a living in professional sales, I find it sickening.
I just returned from a conference in St. Louis where our company brought in a purchasing agent to speak with a group of professional salesmen. Among his tidbits of advice -- from the other side, if you will, was to never call someone and leave them a message stating, "This is Joe, and I wanted to drop in to see you later. Call me back and let me know what time would be good for you." At least not until you've developed a relationship with that client.
His point? Why is it his responsibility to take time out his busy day and do your job for you?! The same exact thinking should apply here.
Discipline -- not desire -- determines destiny.
Seriously though, you've articulated one of the biggest problems which most Americans past and present have fallen prey to. I'm not sure if it's unawareness as much as it is apathy.
Remember the old analogy of how to cook a frog? You throw him in a pot of boiling water, he jumps right out. Put him in a pot of cool water and turn the temperature up a few degrees at a time, and he acclimates himself all the way 'til he croaks and floats upside down.
It IS outrageous to expect me to be responsible to pay -- out of my own pocket -- (and to take your precious time, which costs me WAY more!) to bother with sending something back so I'm not charged with it when it comes UNSOLICITED!
Rack-attack is exactly right in companies being able to transcend this methodology of "advertising" and "selling" to other mediums if people like Antler Eater don't stand up now. Frankly, as a business owner and someone who currently makes a living in professional sales, I find it sickening.
I just returned from a conference in St. Louis where our company brought in a purchasing agent to speak with a group of professional salesmen. Among his tidbits of advice -- from the other side, if you will, was to never call someone and leave them a message stating, "This is Joe, and I wanted to drop in to see you later. Call me back and let me know what time would be good for you." At least not until you've developed a relationship with that client.
His point? Why is it his responsibility to take time out his busy day and do your job for you?! The same exact thinking should apply here.
Discipline -- not desire -- determines destiny.
01-12-2003, 07:33 AM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vinton VA
Posts: 2,978
RE: 'Bowhunter', Say it isn't so.......
Antler I am with you on this one. Don't send me something I didn't order and expect me to pay for it. If I wanted it I would have orderd it in the first place. It's kind of like slow motion telamarketing. I would keep the video, but send a rock or something very heavy in the return postage package. That way you get a free video and maybe they will get the message at the same time!
TAKE YOUR KIDS HUNTING AND YOU WON'T BE HUNTING FOR YOUR KIDS
TAKE YOUR KIDS HUNTING AND YOU WON'T BE HUNTING FOR YOUR KIDS
01-12-2003, 07:44 AM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Virginia / West Virginia
Posts: 4,906
RE: 'Bowhunter', Say it isn't so.......
AE...I agree. I got a video from the NRA a couple months ago. It's in my collection now, but I'm not sending them $ for it. I support them all the way, but I didn't ask for the stupid video. If I want something, I'll order it and pay for it. I don't care for that type of marketing scheme, and I certainly don't have time to go to the post office to send back something that I didn't ask for in the first place. I figure eventually they'll put my name on the "don't send him anything else" list.
01-12-2003, 08:33 AM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Oh USA
Posts: 1,584
RE: 'Bowhunter', Say it isn't so.......
I'm with you, Antler Eater. I hate this kind of marketing. I'll order what I want, please don't choose for me Mr. Telemarketer. It's a hassle to return stuff you don't want. I don't know that not returning the initial video constitutes an agreement to accept future videos or not, but it could become a problem. Maybe those of you that have no problem with the unsolicited goods can stop by and pick them up for return, for those of us that have the problem.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Phil.
"Could you guys be quiet, my dad's trying to shoot."<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>
Phil.
"Could you guys be quiet, my dad's trying to shoot."<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>
01-12-2003, 09:05 AM
#19
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: 'Bowhunter', Say it isn't so.......
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Bowfanatic,
Of course there are more important things in life to complain about that goes without saying...However I am somewhat astonished that you are so quick to condemn your fellow brethren on their "everyday life ethics" yet at the same time turn a blind eye to marketing tactics that are less than forth coming and in some cases would appear to be illegal.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I didn't condemn anyone! I did however question their ethics. The type of ethics we have in everyday life tends to reflect on the type of hunting ethics we follow. There is absolutely NOTHING illegal in what their doing with these videos. If you carefully read the entire letter that comes with the first video you'll see that if you watch and decide to keep the first video , only then will others be sent. It's more of a pain in the butt to run to the video store and rent a video than it is to receive one in the mail , watch it for a few weeks and then stick it back in it's box , slap the return label on it and stick it in your mailbox , and the latter is free of charge.
I'll let ya in on a little secret. You want to boycott these tactics by keeping the video and throwing the bill in the trash? Then your boycotting your hunting "brethren"! Alot of the money generated from those video sales goes back into our natural resources and also goes into other hunting oriented charitable organizations. Who are you boycotting??? The Drury brothers??? Yes , my latest video collection that I recieved this way just happens to be a Drury Outdoors video collection.
Antler Eater , lets talk about condemning bowhunting brethren!
<font color=red>"Perhaps I should state that the only reason I am so shocked by this marketing ploy are the people who are attached to this garbage. M.R. James, Dwight Schuh, Larry Jones, are (or should I say were) three of the most respected names in bowhunting circles. Why would they allow their image to be used in a marketing scheme for the obvious purpose of getting into the pockets of fellow hunters like a traveling snake oil salesman.
Tell me I am over reacting but I'm sorry, I have better things to do than run around returning videos that I didn't ask for in the first place. You can bet that my subscription to 'Bowhunter' is as good as gone.</font id=red>
Your ready to condemn the likes of M.R. James , Dwight Schue , Larry Jones , and Bowhunting mag all because of their tactics to try and generate more funds to keep Bowhunter mag alive for our grandkids and their grandkids. Or was it because of your inconvenience of having to mail it back (free of charge)?
I'm not sure about the legality of keeping something that was sent to you without your request and not paying for it?? Maybe that is legal. I guess Bowhunting Mag and Outdoorlife just assumed that their hunting brethren have a higher moral standard.
Bowfanatic,
Of course there are more important things in life to complain about that goes without saying...However I am somewhat astonished that you are so quick to condemn your fellow brethren on their "everyday life ethics" yet at the same time turn a blind eye to marketing tactics that are less than forth coming and in some cases would appear to be illegal.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I didn't condemn anyone! I did however question their ethics. The type of ethics we have in everyday life tends to reflect on the type of hunting ethics we follow. There is absolutely NOTHING illegal in what their doing with these videos. If you carefully read the entire letter that comes with the first video you'll see that if you watch and decide to keep the first video , only then will others be sent. It's more of a pain in the butt to run to the video store and rent a video than it is to receive one in the mail , watch it for a few weeks and then stick it back in it's box , slap the return label on it and stick it in your mailbox , and the latter is free of charge.
I'll let ya in on a little secret. You want to boycott these tactics by keeping the video and throwing the bill in the trash? Then your boycotting your hunting "brethren"! Alot of the money generated from those video sales goes back into our natural resources and also goes into other hunting oriented charitable organizations. Who are you boycotting??? The Drury brothers??? Yes , my latest video collection that I recieved this way just happens to be a Drury Outdoors video collection.
Antler Eater , lets talk about condemning bowhunting brethren!
<font color=red>"Perhaps I should state that the only reason I am so shocked by this marketing ploy are the people who are attached to this garbage. M.R. James, Dwight Schuh, Larry Jones, are (or should I say were) three of the most respected names in bowhunting circles. Why would they allow their image to be used in a marketing scheme for the obvious purpose of getting into the pockets of fellow hunters like a traveling snake oil salesman.
Tell me I am over reacting but I'm sorry, I have better things to do than run around returning videos that I didn't ask for in the first place. You can bet that my subscription to 'Bowhunter' is as good as gone.</font id=red>
Your ready to condemn the likes of M.R. James , Dwight Schue , Larry Jones , and Bowhunting mag all because of their tactics to try and generate more funds to keep Bowhunter mag alive for our grandkids and their grandkids. Or was it because of your inconvenience of having to mail it back (free of charge)?
I'm not sure about the legality of keeping something that was sent to you without your request and not paying for it?? Maybe that is legal. I guess Bowhunting Mag and Outdoorlife just assumed that their hunting brethren have a higher moral standard.
01-12-2003, 10:54 AM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Heaven IA USA
Posts: 2,597
RE: 'Bowhunter', Say it isn't so.......
I don't see any noble cause here that I would have to worry about keeping "Bowhunter mag alive for our grandkids and their grandkids". They can sell subscriptions like they have in the past and do just fine. Further, to insinuate that taking a stand against these marketing tactics would rob our natural resources and "other other hunting oriented charitable organizations" of valuable funds borders on the absurd. That is just not factual.
As for my remark concerning Mr. James, Mr. Schuh, and Mr. Jones. These men are highly esteemed in the hunting community, they wield great influence. Having made small talk with two of the three I AM astonished they allow their image to be marketed in this fashion. In their defense they may not be aware of it or can't do anything about it. But you see, it wouldn't matter if it were Fred Bear himself that marketed videos this way- I can't in good conscience support these actions. It is a scheme, a ploy, a marketing strategy devised to add dollars to the bottom line of Primedia Publications Inc. and not to make donations to the World Wildlife Fund or enhance our grandchildren's outdoor experience. I made a living in sales for more than twenty years. If I would have marketed my product in like fashion, I would have lost my license, been heavily fined, and possibly locked up. I have always felt that people would rather buy something than be sold something.
Bowfanatic, I'm not sure why this subject has struck such a sour chord with you but obviously it has. You have a right to your opinion and I respect that.