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01-03-2003, 12:33 PM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fredericksburg Virginia USA
Posts: 13,672
RE: sporting = ethics ?
krisken you are opening a can of worms that could really get messy!LOL even a trad bow is a machine, we as man are the ultimate predator because unlike animals we use our brain and not our braun to hunt. This has evolved over thousands of years. There are some right here that feel that a gun is not fair chase, go check out the trad forum, there are a few in thier that feel the compound is the work of Satan himself, and right here are folks that feel a crossbow is the devils work.
I personally draw the line at computors, but there are some people that feel the need for a GPS, I have never needed one, but then again I don't hunt any truely remote isolated areas either.
The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club
I personally draw the line at computors, but there are some people that feel the need for a GPS, I have never needed one, but then again I don't hunt any truely remote isolated areas either.
The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club
01-03-2003, 12:41 PM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shenendoah IA USA
Posts: 161
RE: sporting = ethics ?
I also don't feel that we have so unfair an advantage that it isn't fair chase. Look at how many people on this board have yet to get a deer after even 2 or three seasons (whether it be because of selectiveness or lack of oppertunity). You still have to get close to the critters for the gear to matter. Even with the tech advances we have had the last couple of decades, everyone here has been out foxed by Mr. Whitetail more than once.
THWACK!
THWACK!
01-03-2003, 02:24 PM
#5
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ridgeland MS USA
Posts: 850
RE: sporting = ethics ?
God did not give us huge teeth and claws as well as animal like speed. However, he did give us a much more powerfull weapon, our brains. We use our brains to create products to help us harvest animals. Seems like fair chase to me.
Hunt the thickets
Hunt the thickets
01-03-2003, 02:37 PM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hereford Texas USA
Posts: 40
RE: sporting = ethics ?
You mention both fair chance and fair chase. Two different things. The only way to give them fair chance would be to somehow equip them with guns and allow them to shoot back at us. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
But I see your point. Outide of machines such as the rangefinder, we are pretty much hunting just the way the indians used to do it with our scent blocker camo, carbon/aluminum arrows, razor broadheads, fiber optics, climbers, etc., etc.
When stand hunting, a range finder is merely a convenience. When hunting animals such as elk where one may be required to set up quickly, the rangefinder allows the hunter to have confidence in knowing his effective range, allows him to make better shot placement and prevents him from shooting outside of his effective range. A large bull elk at 60 yards looks a lot closer to those of us that are only lucky enough to get to hunt them 5-7 days per year and may only actually get into elk once during that time. A range finder helps us be more ethical, not less, and has nothing to do with fair chase. Just my opinion.
But I see your point. Outide of machines such as the rangefinder, we are pretty much hunting just the way the indians used to do it with our scent blocker camo, carbon/aluminum arrows, razor broadheads, fiber optics, climbers, etc., etc.
When stand hunting, a range finder is merely a convenience. When hunting animals such as elk where one may be required to set up quickly, the rangefinder allows the hunter to have confidence in knowing his effective range, allows him to make better shot placement and prevents him from shooting outside of his effective range. A large bull elk at 60 yards looks a lot closer to those of us that are only lucky enough to get to hunt them 5-7 days per year and may only actually get into elk once during that time. A range finder helps us be more ethical, not less, and has nothing to do with fair chase. Just my opinion.
01-03-2003, 02:53 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 3,240
RE: sporting = ethics ?
I agree with Belle Island. If animals were hunting us, and we had no machines (bows, arrows, etc), would you call that fair chase? Humans could not survive without our brains, unless you think you can out run a cheetah, a bear, a cougar and other predators. Our brains are ou weapons.....and we are just making good use of them.
01-03-2003, 08:00 PM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: cazenovia, NY USA
Posts: 2,973
RE: sporting = ethics ?
Gadgets do not make hunting more or less ethical in my opinion. You said in your original post that an argument could be made that a rangefinder could be veiwed as MORE ETHICAL, and I'd agree it could, because they could offer better shot placement. Now if we were talking about putting a radio collar on a deer, and "tracking it" to hunt it down, then there would be a line that was crossed.
I understand your point, that "where is the line drawn". However, an ethical hunt lies in the hands of the individual hunter, and if you feel a rangefinder is unethical, do not use one. If your bow is a "killing machine" in your eyes, switch to a more traditional bow, or a longbow. Limit your shots to only quartering away, etc.
Still, if you botch a shot at a deer and wound it with equipment that is more "traditional", you are faced with your own ethical dilema once again, would it have been more ethical to hunt with a more proficient weapon? No one is going to fine you, no one is even going to hold you accoutable. Thats the way it should be, and that is why ethics & law are not the same.
Ultimately, each individual settles on their own code of ethics. Personally, I say hunt legal, hunt for the enjoyment, hunt safe, and do not worry so much about the details of an ethical hunt - If you subscribe to these three fundementals - the ethics of the hunt will be set. In otherwords, .... if hunting in a manner, or with a peice of equipment is 1. legal, 2. enjoyable to you, or 3. safe - then then for you, the hunt is ethical.
I understand your point, that "where is the line drawn". However, an ethical hunt lies in the hands of the individual hunter, and if you feel a rangefinder is unethical, do not use one. If your bow is a "killing machine" in your eyes, switch to a more traditional bow, or a longbow. Limit your shots to only quartering away, etc.
Still, if you botch a shot at a deer and wound it with equipment that is more "traditional", you are faced with your own ethical dilema once again, would it have been more ethical to hunt with a more proficient weapon? No one is going to fine you, no one is even going to hold you accoutable. Thats the way it should be, and that is why ethics & law are not the same.
Ultimately, each individual settles on their own code of ethics. Personally, I say hunt legal, hunt for the enjoyment, hunt safe, and do not worry so much about the details of an ethical hunt - If you subscribe to these three fundementals - the ethics of the hunt will be set. In otherwords, .... if hunting in a manner, or with a peice of equipment is 1. legal, 2. enjoyable to you, or 3. safe - then then for you, the hunt is ethical.