RE: I always hear this story...
 

Adjourned???

RE: I always hear this story...
 

It must just be our deer but They seem to fear the smell of humans. So when some one moves a stand to close to my line I have no problem burying a stinking tee shirt up wind of said stand. I hate line rats.
Or if deer are crossing some place where I can't place a stand I will put something with human odor there to prevent them from using that travel route.
You can use their nose's against them , you just can't ignore them.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

Jim...GregH...Charlie...others...

I'll sometimes take a dissenting stand to learn something. The people who know how I hunt know I practice scent control and play the wind to the degree it's prctical for where I hunt.

Good stuff in here, guys. I agree with you more than you give me credit for. What I don't do is take something at face value....just because it's been done that way for (____) yrs. I need to know "why". ex- HOW do we know a 3.5 yr old is more sensitive to human scent than a 1.5 yr old? How do we know what a deer's thinking?

Interesting stuff.....

RE: I always hear this story...
 

We become the deer, man.[:-]

RE: I always hear this story...
 

I stll want a big assed buck magnet.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

I tend to give the deer more credit than some. But I have watched a buck lie still while a hunter passed within yards , and I have seen that same buck bolt from his bed because some one slammed a truck door out on the road.
When I look back at the bucks I did not kill the number one reason was the wind. It now has become the number one factor in what stand I will hunt or if I will hunt.
As for age ,a buck has a short learning curve and if they make past 2.5 years old they pretty much have a masters degree in survival.
They might question what they see,and even what they hear but if they get a whiff of you the game is over and and they will melt away without many ever knowing they were there.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

Why one of the things I use is Hawgs Vanishing Hunter. Spray it right in your mouth.

I seldom am wind savy although I don't disreguard it when it's easy to read. Haven't been busted for a long time and I don't even wash my exterior clothes more than once a year.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

To my knowledge.....I've only seen 2 deer from stand that would qualify as "mature" bucks. They should both be dead....yet one of them still roams. I give them credit, too. But....not as much as some. One could always use the argument that I've probably scared many more than that off or had them scent me.....but it can't be proven. Who really knows. I saw these two deer multiple times......one for 3 seasons running, now.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

What has prevented you from killing them?

RE: I always hear this story...
 

One of them?......Nothing. He's at my taxi, now.

The other one?.....ME. First year I let him waltz in on me while I was sitting down. Never got my bow off the hook before he was out of range. Last year....9/12....I got excited and clipped him. I didnt see him again until the day after Thanksgiving.He was 2-3 yds on me before Iknew it.....and I didn't risk a straight down shot. He walked directly away from me....never offering a shot. Last day of the season.....he walks by at 20 yds like he owned the place. I didn't have a tag for him or he'd be on the wall, too.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

I agree with the statement that you should hunt the wind but I also acknowledge that it isn't always feasible 100%. If I only hunted the wind I would probably only hunt one or two times a year on my property. The perfect wind is a NorthEast wind for my property, depending mostly on which exact spot but mostly it holds true. That wind rarely happens, especially during bow season. Mostly the wind is from the West, occasionally South, and even less so East. I'm in mountain country so I mostly play the thermals and hope for the rest. If I am hunting somewhere else I will try to play the wind as much as possible and some stands I won't hunt unless the wind is perfect but that's because the setup is so strict as far as the direction of deer travel. When the setup is perfect for a deer to be funneled from a specific one or two direction I'll use the wind but often they can come from 360. I have seen YOUNG deer disregard wind and be directly downwind from me but rarely have I seen mature bucks not bolt when they cross downwind. I've often wondered how many bucks I didn't see because they winded me long before they got near me, but I try to make the best selection I can with the limited options I have.

As far as deer distinguishing activity they certainly do. They pattern us better than we pattern them. I have does and bucks come into my yard and stand 10 yards from me WHILE I AM PRACTICING WITH MY BOW and eat apples from my trees. I can talk to them and walk to and from my target and they may be a little skittish but they see me practicing all the time and don't associate that with danger. If I tried that in the woods they'd be gone.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

Interference with the lawful taking of wildlife. 34 PA CSA Sec. 2302. Can't say I'm not surprised...

RE: I always hear this story...
 

Well then it doesn't sound like you'll have any problem piling them up .

We get one tag per year so I have to chose when to use it , and to use it wisely.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

It's a wonder any of us kill anything.[&:]

RE: I always hear this story...
 

I've been thinking that all the way through this thread.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

I hunt in the mountains, at least part of the time, and wind directon isn't a consistent factor at all. You can check the wind, but when you go in , at certain junctures, it swirls like water at a bend in a river. Certain ridges and mountainsides deflect it, and it can be entirely different from the prevailing wind in the open. You have to be prepared for the specific spot you are hunting, and take every precaution that is feasible. Even then, it is still tough. I hunt with a climber, and sometimes it takes as long to pick out the right tree as it does to get to where I want to hunt. I have literally stood in one spot trying to find the right tree for as long as 45 minutes![&:]And, then when you think you have it right--it changes after you climb! That is one reason hunt as high as I can without getting to the point of being too high for a good angled shot.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

Man, didn't mean to cinch up so many people's thongs. I have read thru the whole thread just now. I was not able to follow in realtime today.

I will have to say this thread has probably taught me a thing or two. 1.) There are guys here that have bowhunted and observed mature whitetails for years. I trust your experience. You know who you are. Thanks. 2.) There are those who will hunt like the experts(magazine/video pros) no matter how much real life experience/advice is given to them. 3.) The wind IS one very important factor in hunting deer. 4.) Never underestimate a deer's nose/memory.

I also would like to state that I have learned a few things on my own concerning deer behavior. 1.) Deer have predators. If you hunt, walk, stalk, creep, or make noises like a predator, the deer are always looking for you. Imagine if you will, you come home one night to find a thief with a loaded .357 pointed at your nose. You get away unscathed. Now the question is how long will you remember this? Think about it. You can think of hundreds of other scenarios, we as humans could encounter that we would not soon forget. I remember when a friend of mine was killed in a very bloody car accident and my brother and another friend were critically injured. I can still not stand the smell of that scene today. This is human olfactory at work. Now reconsider the deer who smells a human that causes him alarm/harm. He will remember. 2.) If you want to move stands when the eind gets wrong, I will have to agree it can be accomplished. I will not risk this unless conditions are totally in my favor. ie., exit route, entrance route to another stand and amount of cover between me and where I think deer may be. I will not chance letting a deer see me over letting them wind me. If they are lenient enough to see me and not leave, then smell will probably not play a role here. On the other hand, if they are lenient enough to smell me and not leave, why should I move a muscle. I really believe a deers eyes play just as vital a role in survival as their sense of smell.

Just my 2 cents.

LT

RE: I always hear this story...
 

I think everyone pays attetion to the wind, but I don't think I'd risk getting down and changing too often. If I'm not seeing any deer it's one thing, but if I see deer in the distance, I figure take the chance of getting winded rather than getting spotted getting down and walking to another stand.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

Lets ask this question again in another 10 years and see if some opinions change. I'm not talking about a varible wind. If I go to a stand that needs a south wind not to spook what I'm looking for and the wind goes North than my fat can is moving to another location. It might only be 20 yds, or across the field to another location. Sure deer come from every direction but I'm not hunting deer'sssss Im hunting a deer that I have put a ton of scouting and planning into. Do we know what a buck is thinking? I do, and I bet afew of others will say the same. I'm not talking ESP here but just a good understanding of a bucks body language. Got news for ya, big mature bucks will usually never blow, he will just turn around and slowly walk away. I had a big bastard bed down 60 yds from me one morning. The wind was in my face andI was going to be super quiet until he decided to get up and move along. I knew where he was heading. I felt the wind shift and hit the back of my neck, it wasnt 3 seconds he stood up and walked 180 from the source. I have seen it over and over. Its just another level of hunting guys. If your happy killing what ever happens along than thats great and fun.Sometimes you can luck into a great buck doing that. If your picking out a single buck, the dominant buck, than tactics have to change.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

Only problem with this logic is you're giving a deer the same brain power as a human.....which I think is flawed. Just a difference of opinion.

Granted. But for "how long" is debateable. I don't give them the same credit some do in this arena.

Agreed.

Again....common ground.

Agreed. If he winds me from a distance.....he's got a good idea (or heck....he KNOWS) I'm in the area. If he SEES me.....he's got my stand location pinpointed. You take a risk either way. If I want to hunt that stand again.....I don't see one being more important than the other.

Again...good point. BUT....I'll be willing to change it up and try other methods in the future. If no one else is willing to risk change, though....the conversation won't have much merit.

I've seen this occur. Very true.

Again...rock and a hard place. If he'd SEEN you, too....he'd put ANOTHER piece of the puzzle, together.

While I have to trust you on this.....and I will be playing the wind.....if I'm able to take 3.5 yr old deer and older on a (pretty much) yr to yr basis in my future endeavors.....SOME credence will have to be paid to my methods, also.

LOTS of good information passed along in this thread. I appreciate all of it. Thanks.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

I make my decision in the morning and stick with it for the day.I base my decision on the wind direction from the weather report. There are so many hills and valleys on the property, we never know which way the wind will blow during the day so I place my stands where deer can come from several locations. I also hunt in pine trees about 25 feet off the ground to keep from being winded or seen.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

If you believe a deers eyes are that good .Hears something to try. The next night you have to go scouting put your camo on just like you are hunting and drive to a field.Go to the down wind side and sit down in the tree line and wait for the deer to come out to feed. When the deer start feeding take a white handkerchief out and slowly wave it back and forth. I will bet you any thing you want that those deer will look up stomp their feet and then walk to you to try to find out what you are.

If you take the same scenario and let them wind you they will turn and run with the first whiff of you.

A deers eyes are great at catching movement but they have a hard time with identifying stationary objects.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

Agreed.

I don't do things to intentionally make deer see me, though.....no more than you'd take your dog hunting with you to prove their olfactory prowess.

Agreed....and that's ALL I've been saying in this thread.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

Just comparing the two.

With good camo a deers eyes can be fooled ,the same can not be done with his nose.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

I certainly watch the wind and have stands or options for changing conditions. But let me ask a question.
You are hunting the edge of a woods where it meets a field: Just say, up is North, and the field is the most lushes biologic ever planted. There are numerous trails in the thick woods with no single bedding area.

What wind do you hunt this stand, without risking spooking deer?

Woods

____________YOU__________(tree line)

Field

RE: I always hear this story...
 

Let me give you a real-life example, GR8.

I hunt the North side of a parks system. My hunting grounds consist of tracts of land that are: 25 acres; 3 acre break (my land); 25 acres; 15 acre break; 3 acres; 2 acres; 2 acre break; 2 acre break and one last 10 acre woodlot.

If I catch a North wind......NOWHERE do I have a spot to hunt. I pick a spot that I LEAST expect to encounter the buck I'm after....and I hunt the South side of it (the 10 acre woodlot). That way.....I've got those 10 acres of clean woods....if I can get in there without being sighted.

Therein lies MY dilemma. I have to hunt what I have. Bu tyou can bet your ass.....if I catch a West or South wind.....I'll pick a good entry route to my better stands and set up an ambush. If the wind shifts around from the North......I MIGHT get down......but by the time I'm up in the tree.....I'm fairly committed.

Granted.....I live in a target-rich environment that has deer probably passing off a "little more" human scent than most. I bank on that. If I hunted the flats of Kanasas I might have a different outlook. If I had more days to hunt I might. If I had wings I'd dive bomb 'em.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

Chances are does and young bucks will walk a direct route from their beds to the field edge. A mature buck will most likely not enter the field before dark unless the rut is near or happening . Your best stand placement would be some where around twenty yards inside the woods on the down wind corner of this field. A mature buck will circle and scent check this field from the safety of the woods first before entering the field.If the wind varies then two stands would be ideal.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

Jim that's certainly a textbook answer. Do you throw caution to the wind during the rut? Is it better to have hunted and taken a chance on that buck being stupid one day......than to never take the chance?

I suppose I play to their stupid side. I'd like to be ther eif they get stupid, sometimes. numbers game, I suppose.

I'm a recreational....somewhat fanatical (albeit) recreational hunter. I work and I have limited grounds to hunt. If it's a Saturday during hunting season.....I'll be in the woods.....morning and evening......wind direction be damned. I'll find soemwhere the least obtrusive.....and I'll hunt. I would bet that I'm more like the "norm" for most. If I continue to realize "success" like I did last year.....I'll continue my approach. Not saying yours is wrong, at all. I'm playing the hand I'm dealt (to a degree).

Good luck.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

Do you ever watch W.P.T.[World poker tour]those guys play the hands they are dealt and about a dozen of them win every tournament. Why do they win ? Because they play those cards better than the others play their cards.
No one enjoys hunting more than I do ,with that said I find hunting much more satisfying when I win.
I stated before in PA we get one tag per year ,so unlike you I spend very little time killing and a whole lot of time hunting. Look at like you are playing chess but you start the game with only a king and a queen and the strategy changes completely, its a new game.
I hunt on 150 acer that I know very well and I use that knowledge to my advantage as much as possible.

You are hunting to kill as many animals as possible ,I in turn am hunting to kill just one.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

FORGET THE WIND JUST HUNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: I always hear this story...
 

Jim:

Was this directed at me? If so.....my strategy THIS year has changed. Yes.

I NEED to thin does. It's not necessarily the way I WANT to hunt. It's far from it. I could approach my hunting a lot differently if I were trying to hunt 1 deer. If I killed one deer a year from now on.....and it was a deer I was happy with.....I'd feel like a successful hunter. I don't have that luxury.

All that being said.....I hunted the way "I" wanted to last year. I still put myself in position to take the only maturebucks I saw. Was some of this "luck"? Sure. But even if it was....it lends credence to the methodology I've been talking about all through this thread.

Don't think I'm in this to kill as many animals as I can. That woud be far from the truth. I'm doing what needs to be done.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

Jim I certainly understand the buck will circle downwind which is my point.
if The wind is coming off the field into the woods. This would allow the buck to scent check the field, and will probably be the entry side. By placing a stand there. You are polluting the "holding" woods with your scent. By getting 20 yards inside the woodline, you may create more of a scent free direct vicinity but you then sending your scent further in. Which in turn may keep him from coming to the field edge to check it at all.

I'm just playing devils advocate.. Because there are always circumstances that the more you think about it the harder it becomes.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

This is where rub lines and scrap locations can help you figure his travel directions hopefully you will get a shot before he gets down wind of you And another case where stands are left vacant until conditions are perfect .Your chances of killing a mature buck are at there highest on the very first day you hunt a stand.
If you are limited toa particulartree and its location is not right don't hesitateto drop another tree top across his travel route to force him closer to your location.

Of course then theres that big part that luck plays in all of this. [:o]

RE: I always hear this story...
 

So you're advocating going into his bedroom to look for these?

Different strokes. I haven't been in my deer woods since May....which was for one morning. This just shows how there are MANY strategies that we all employ. I guess the proof's only in what gets taken out of the woods as to who's doing things "right" for THEIR application.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

Go back several pages where I told you I did go in his bed room in the spring shed hunting. And of course you ripped me for that also. ;)

His rubs ,sheds & scrapes are in the same places as last year because this buck has lived here for more than one year. "Mature Buck"

I am in my woods closer to 300 days per year .Thats where the sanctuary and other off limit locations are for.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

Honest Question.....

When you see a rub.....(no generalities, here) How do you KNOW which buck (or what class) made that rub? Scrapes?? How do you know which buck(s) is making that scrape??

This is....assuming you don't see him doing it.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

Honest answer .....you don't.

But a mature buck has a huge foot when compared to a doe or 1.5 year old buck.

One thing I have found is a bucks bed is usually in multi flora rose or some other impenetrable cover. And every tree within ten to fifteen feet will be rubbed .I think a buck does this out of frustration and boredom while waiting for the cover of darkness before leaving his lair .
If you find his sheds here then you have an idea of what you are hunting.And you can follow this rub lines by what side of the tree they are on leading to the feeding area.

As for who makes rubs from what I have watched. A big buck will rub anything big trees, small trees ,willow or oak. But I have never seen a small buck rub a large diameter tree. If a rub is on a six inchdiameter tree or larger I'm interested.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

I learn something every day.

So you have to wait til the right season........have enough moisture on the ground to read hoof prints.....find a buck bedding area with 6" diam. (that's 1 foot across)or greater trees.....to know that there WAS a buck there of possible substantial size and age.....and hope he made it through to the hunting season?

I'm gonna tell ya.....KUDOS from me. I'm serious.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

I view this as flawed thinking. If the weather report says one thing and you get to your stand and find that the wind is not right for your stand, why on earth would you sit there anyway and alert the deer to your presence and stand location?? Makes no sense. If the wind is perfect for your stand and you can get to it undetected, you can get away with hunting it several times in a row. If you educate them to your presence, you will not have any luck trying for any deer much less a mature buck.

I prepare at least 8 stands for all wind directions and always have a back up plan. If plan B is no good, I'll go home and not hunt rather than alert the deer to my presence.

Alerting deer to your presence is the last thing that you would want to do. You might as well leave your bow at home and just go out for a leisurely stroll.

RE: I always hear this story...
 

So Greg....if they see you move......they're not alerted to your presence? In my eyes...there's as good a chance of this occurring as what you guys are putting out there (though neither scenario is absolute).

Seems to me it's a "catch-22".

I don't know if I'd go that far. If I haven't climbed the tree....I can still move. If I'm up there, though.....I'm there. Right or wrong.