Interesting Changes in PA
07-04-2007, 07:05 AM
#21
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: Interesting Changes in PA
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
That right there is funny.
Wonder how a judge would've seen that???? Come to NC and "carry" during bow season. Ask the the GW what he thinks about it.
(as far as I am concerned the PA Game Commission cannot overrule the US Constitution),
Wonder how a judge would've seen that???? Come to NC and "carry" during bow season. Ask the the GW what he thinks about it.
The PGC doesn't have the authority to stop us from carry'n but they do have the power to stop us from bowhunting while carry'n....that's they way they'd put it. He would have lost that on in court in PA as well. !
07-04-2007, 07:17 AM
#22
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Phoenixville, PA USA
Posts: 5,541
RE: Interesting Changes in PA
ORIGINAL: BowHntrRick
It is ironic that the portion of this discussion concerning carrying a pistol while bowhunting in PA should take place over the July 4 holiday when we celebrate our freedom as US citizens. Inthe overwhelming number of countries in the world this would noteven be open for discussion.
"Early In" sees no need to carry a gun while bowhunting: I doubt anyone would challenge his right not to carry. The problem is that, because he sees no need to carry, he concludes that no bowhunter in PA should be allowed to carry. Thankfully, that decision is not his to make.
I own property in the country that is close to a college. It is common for me to exit the woods shortly after sundown on a Friday or Saturday to find a car load of college students with a case of beer in my field. There has never been any difficulty: I tell them that I do not mind if they hang out on my property as long as they carry out their trash with them and then go peacefully on my way.
If I should find them damaging my property, however, I will order them on their way.If things should ever turn nasty I want something more on my side than a can of pepper spray.
Is it likely that I will ever need the handgun that I carry? No. Am I grateful for the right to carry it? Yes, I am.
It is ironic that the portion of this discussion concerning carrying a pistol while bowhunting in PA should take place over the July 4 holiday when we celebrate our freedom as US citizens. Inthe overwhelming number of countries in the world this would noteven be open for discussion.
"Early In" sees no need to carry a gun while bowhunting: I doubt anyone would challenge his right not to carry. The problem is that, because he sees no need to carry, he concludes that no bowhunter in PA should be allowed to carry. Thankfully, that decision is not his to make.
I own property in the country that is close to a college. It is common for me to exit the woods shortly after sundown on a Friday or Saturday to find a car load of college students with a case of beer in my field. There has never been any difficulty: I tell them that I do not mind if they hang out on my property as long as they carry out their trash with them and then go peacefully on my way.
If I should find them damaging my property, however, I will order them on their way.If things should ever turn nasty I want something more on my side than a can of pepper spray.
Is it likely that I will ever need the handgun that I carry? No. Am I grateful for the right to carry it? Yes, I am.
Besides, you'd be better off without a handgun if "things ever turn nasty." Brandishing a weapon on a group of unarmed college kids is a quick way to find yourself in jail, your property or not. Unfortunately, the offenders have all the rights these days, not the offended.
07-04-2007, 07:19 AM
#23
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: Interesting Changes in PA
I had the same conversation with a friend I shoot with here (bows). He told me his 2nd amendment right superseded the NCWRC laws. I sent them an e-mail.....and this was their response:
You are correct. A conceal carry permit does not allow the holder to supersede other state laws or agency rules. You friend may NOT carry his handgun while hunting during bow-and-arrow season or at other times and locations prohibited by the Wildlife Resources Commission.
Regards,
Kate Pipkin
RulesBiologist
N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission
1722 Mail Service Center
Raleigh, N.C. 27699-1722
Regards,
Kate Pipkin
RulesBiologist
N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission
1722 Mail Service Center
Raleigh, N.C. 27699-1722
07-04-2007, 08:12 AM
#24
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,716
RE: Interesting Changes in PA
Well, everyone's Second Amendment "rights" whining has now led to every pansy in the state now able to legally carry this gun while "bowhunting" and "spotlighting." Like Bryan said - if you're afraid of the boogie man, either stay home and play Barbies or carry some bear spray.
Every WCO that I've emailed or spoken with about it says that this will most assuredly lead to a complete ban on spotlighting within the Commonwealth. Reason: It's taken the teeth out of their jacklighting patrols. Now, you have known poachers who can be casually riding around, legally spotlighting, with a .223 Encore under the seat. Anything short of actually witnessing the poaching act will preclude the officer from effectuating an arrest.
These changes are immensely unpopular with our law enforcement agents. Call me stupid, but when the guys that enforce the laws think something's a bad idea, it usually is.
So, when the dominos finally fall, and spotting is ultimatelybanned - call your local gun nut and thank him.
Tell me something guys: Does your 2nd Amendment "right" extend to airports? Can you carry your pistol into the White House? What about to your kids' school?
Since deer rifles are "arms" per the 2nd Amendment - would you guys support the ability to carry deer rifles while "bow hunting" for "self defense?" Hey, I don't have a pistol, but I do have a nice .300 Weatherby that would scare the daylights out of a "meth head" or charging Mountain Lion. Why should you guys get to carry pistols, and I'm not allowed to take the Weatherby? Why the double-standard?
...and Rick, if you're telling us that you're planning on getting into a gunfight with a bunch of young kids, that's just crazy.
Every WCO that I've emailed or spoken with about it says that this will most assuredly lead to a complete ban on spotlighting within the Commonwealth. Reason: It's taken the teeth out of their jacklighting patrols. Now, you have known poachers who can be casually riding around, legally spotlighting, with a .223 Encore under the seat. Anything short of actually witnessing the poaching act will preclude the officer from effectuating an arrest.
These changes are immensely unpopular with our law enforcement agents. Call me stupid, but when the guys that enforce the laws think something's a bad idea, it usually is.
So, when the dominos finally fall, and spotting is ultimatelybanned - call your local gun nut and thank him.
Tell me something guys: Does your 2nd Amendment "right" extend to airports? Can you carry your pistol into the White House? What about to your kids' school?
Since deer rifles are "arms" per the 2nd Amendment - would you guys support the ability to carry deer rifles while "bow hunting" for "self defense?" Hey, I don't have a pistol, but I do have a nice .300 Weatherby that would scare the daylights out of a "meth head" or charging Mountain Lion. Why should you guys get to carry pistols, and I'm not allowed to take the Weatherby? Why the double-standard?
...and Rick, if you're telling us that you're planning on getting into a gunfight with a bunch of young kids, that's just crazy.
07-04-2007, 01:13 PM
#25
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Warren, Pa
Posts: 299
RE: Interesting Changes in PA
For this to be fair. Everyone should have to register their deer at a registration station and have that animal black light searched. Any powder stains from the hand gun would be evident.
I have seen this done in Wisconsin in Early Season. I like the idea. Takes less than 10 seconds to figure out if the hunter shot it with the bow or gun.
I have seen this done in Wisconsin in Early Season. I like the idea. Takes less than 10 seconds to figure out if the hunter shot it with the bow or gun.
07-04-2007, 02:29 PM
#26
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Mont County, Pa
Posts: 7,368
RE: Interesting Changes in PA
ORIGINAL: BowHntrRick
"Early In" sees no need to carry a gun while bowhunting: I doubt anyone would challenge his right not to carry. The problem is that, because he sees no need to carry, he concludes that no bowhunter in PA should be allowed to carry. Thankfully, that decision is not his to make.
"Early In" sees no need to carry a gun while bowhunting: I doubt anyone would challenge his right not to carry. The problem is that, because he sees no need to carry, he concludes that no bowhunter in PA should be allowed to carry. Thankfully, that decision is not his to make.
07-04-2007, 06:27 PM
#27
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location:
Posts: 99
RE: Interesting Changes in PA
Let me clarify for the sake of some of the other individuals who posted: I never suggested that I would escape penalty if caught carrying a handgun while bowhunting prior to the recent changes. In fact, I mentioned that I was glad that the recent changes made what I was already doinglegal.
Since the probability of encountering a Game Warden where I hunt is small (I hunt private land and have never seen one) and the probability of him knowing that I am carrying a handgun even smaller, the likelihood that I would face a penalty is even smaller than the chance that I would need the handgun. Based on this reasoning, the cost of disobeying Game Commission lawis less than the cost of not having the handgun, should I need it.
My only concern is one of personal conscience: I was breaking the law of PA, but does the Commonwealth of PA have the right to tell me (a law-abiding citizen) that I may not carry a handgun while bowhunting when the US Constitution says that carrying a firearm is a fundamental right? Clearly, they have the power to do so, but do they have the moral right?
Furthermore, is it right torestrict the freedom of individuals who have no intention of using the handgunfor improper purposes (poaching) to make it easier to catch individuals whodo?
While intelligent debate on this subject is worthwhile,insults directed toward individuals like myself who choose to carry a handgun while bowhunting are juvenile and unworthy of further comment.
As I stated before, I have no objection to anyone who choosesnot to carry a handgun while bowhunting. I accept their judgement that it is, for them, unnecessary. However, I do object to those individuals concluding thatbecause it is unnecessary for them, it should not be permitted for anyone to carry while bowhunting.
Since the probability of encountering a Game Warden where I hunt is small (I hunt private land and have never seen one) and the probability of him knowing that I am carrying a handgun even smaller, the likelihood that I would face a penalty is even smaller than the chance that I would need the handgun. Based on this reasoning, the cost of disobeying Game Commission lawis less than the cost of not having the handgun, should I need it.
My only concern is one of personal conscience: I was breaking the law of PA, but does the Commonwealth of PA have the right to tell me (a law-abiding citizen) that I may not carry a handgun while bowhunting when the US Constitution says that carrying a firearm is a fundamental right? Clearly, they have the power to do so, but do they have the moral right?
Furthermore, is it right torestrict the freedom of individuals who have no intention of using the handgunfor improper purposes (poaching) to make it easier to catch individuals whodo?
While intelligent debate on this subject is worthwhile,insults directed toward individuals like myself who choose to carry a handgun while bowhunting are juvenile and unworthy of further comment.
As I stated before, I have no objection to anyone who choosesnot to carry a handgun while bowhunting. I accept their judgement that it is, for them, unnecessary. However, I do object to those individuals concluding thatbecause it is unnecessary for them, it should not be permitted for anyone to carry while bowhunting.
07-04-2007, 07:03 PM
#28
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Mont County, Pa
Posts: 7,368
RE: Interesting Changes in PA
Hey Rick, I have NOTHING against legally carrying a sidearm. I just have a simple question for you.Why would youNEED to have one while "bowhunting" in the state of Pa?
07-04-2007, 07:14 PM
#29
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location:
Posts: 99
RE: Interesting Changes in PA
"Early In": I have already answered that question twice. My answer may be unsatisfactory for you and others who have posted, but that is immaterial. Many people would argue that no ordinary citizen ever "needs" to carry a handgun at any time. In their view we should rely strictly on law enforcement professionals to protect us and our property.
Fortunately, the US Constitution does not allow one group of law-abiding citizens to make that decision for another group of law-abiding citizens.
Fortunately, the US Constitution does not allow one group of law-abiding citizens to make that decision for another group of law-abiding citizens.