RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

I understand 100%. I have a couple youth hunts and I tell them to shoot what makes them happy. I did not start out hunting the way I do now. I "grew" into the hunterI am today;)

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Arthur that has nothing to do with QDM

Human greed plain and simple;) Your issue is not QDM princples, but what QDM doesto some hunters attidude? Makes them intogreeding antler pumpers(From Atlas)?

If so well than we need a new thread;)

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Actually our Achilles Heel is the poor game management practices we have been using for years. The overpopulation of deer could come back to bite us as hunters. Why do you think sharpshooters are being hired in some areas and hunters are upset about it? Maybe because we has hunters (game managers) have failed to keep the population in check. Because of this, practicingQDM will be our saving grace, not our Achilles Heel.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Comparing you Canadian area to my area is like being Cubs fan. it makes no sense.
I have these strange things calledautos ,they are our deers main predator.Top of the food chain even black bears fall victim to them if they are not careful.
Autos are a big supporter of Q.D.M. also because when ever I hear about a car getting one it a big buck every time. ;)

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Arthur....you're not even tlaking about the practice of QDMA.

You seem bitter about what it does to human nature. it sounds a LOT to me like......"I don't like it....because it makes the deer herd better ...and somebody's gonna steal my spot".

Forgive me if this is oversimplified, but you really aren't even talking about QDMA. you're talking about a nasty by-product.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

You can't honestly say you don't understand his point?
I'm not sure if there isa crayon font on this board or I'd write it out that way for you.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Yep, that's the basic effect.

I agree wholeheartedly with working to correct the imbalances and making for healthy deer herds. But I do NOT agree with taking only mature bucks. Nor do I always agree it's better to take a doe than a small buck. Natural predators don't make silly rules on which deer they are going to take. They take the weak, the youngest and the oldest. They do NOT take only those bucks that are in their prime, like QDM practitioners insist we do.

And I still maintain that QDM is an argument that, for the most part, has nothing to do with bowhunting.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

You eithercompletely missed my point, purposely missed my point, or you just like to hear yourself talk. I believe its one of the latter two, or both. Either way, when you have something coherent to say, come back and we can discuss this like humans.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Thanks rybo, you beat me to it. I believe the answer is in my last post. ;)

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

I guess everyone missed what I said before, so I'll say it again.

Hunters don't practice QDM. We are the tools by which biologists practice it.

It is foolish and egomaniacal to think that we as individuals can have a profound effect on deers' populations. That is why state mandated programs are necessar, and groups like QDMA are formed. So that we can pool our resoursce and work together. The antler management is the payoff for the work. Plus hunters are only one tool that is used. There are timber companies, field burnoffs, cooperative farming efforts, browse analysis, soil fertility studies, and on and on. All of these things are part of QDM.

We as hunters only see a very small part of this picture and only look at how it affects us. There is nothing wrong with that, but be aware that while shooting does is doing your part, there is much more to it than that.

Bwanajim, I thought you lived in NC???

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Substitute "uneducated hunters" for "Predators", above.....and you'll see why were in the spot we're in in many areas.They also don't care about herd management.

Hell ......at least we can excuse the predatorsas being "opportunists". What do the uneducated hunters use for an excuse?

"I GOT 'A' BUCK":D

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Again well said HuntingBry

the point of this thread is to tells us what you do not like about QDM principles.

We have herd
1.Shoot to many does
2.Breeds hunters to become antler pumping zombies

Both of these points have nothing to do with QDM principles.
Which is my point;)

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

I believe hunters were antler pumping zombies long before QDM came about. The thing is the payoff for QDM (big bucks)can satisfy the zombies. Hell, I'm a zombie, I like big bucks as much as the next guy, but I like deer more.

I live very close to Valley Forge National Park which is off limits to any type of hunting because it is federal property. The deer on that propery are skin and bones because the population is well beyond the carrying capacity and there is not any real tonnage of browse for them to eat. Their primary food source is grass and a small number of oaks. It is very sad to see deer in that condition (note I said deer, not bucks unable to reach their full potential).

Examples like this and the very small amount of knowledge I have on the subject make me fully support and QDM efforts even if there is a slant toward producing trophy bucks to keep hunters happy. Heck, that is even better for me, because it's good for the deer and feeds my zombie appetite.

MMMmmmmm, aaaannntttllleeerrrs!:D

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

You forgot
It's not about the horns;)

What angers me is when hunters blame QDM for what is really bothering them. What that is I have no idea, I just know QDM is not the cause of anger some have. QDM is has become a scape goat for some. It's ok to say I do not like QDM because of these facts. It is not ok(IMO) to say QDM stinks because of feelings you have about other hunters, states DNR, etc.

If you do not like that is fine, no skin off my back, someone please pass the Antler kobobs:D Yes I like Antlers I am a Zombie:)

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

I don't think QDM is a bad thing and I think the QDMA site is very good and very informative. What I don't like is thatsome information that often gets overlooked on their site is that QDM is not practical for everyone/everywhere and they even give a question and answer type format to see if it will likely work for you. It was originally designed for very large pieces of land. For some of us it's not really practicalbut that doesn'tmean that you can't put some QDM practices to work for you. However,they stress having realistic expectations based on yourpersonal situation, available land, landowner cooperation, etc.

One area of their site that is worth reading is:
Quality Deer Management: A Paradigm for the Future

(it is under the why QDM? section)

It stresses the organization of hunters andways that QDM practices will benefit us (hunters) in the years to come. There is also a section that describes many problems facing current herds based on traditionalmanagement tactics that were developed when deer herd populations wererelatively low. Those tactics were valid then but not so good for an established herd, as the herd/populationgrew some of the management tactics should have changed as well, some states are already changingand more will follow.

I am not a QDM die hard by any means but one thing I like about the QDMA is they are concerned with the future management of deer herds (on a large scale) and there is a lot of information to be learned from them that can help us as hunters (whether you are into QDM or not).

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Bump for my buddy..;).. in case someone missed it the last time through..I still have some popcorn left from tub 2.:D

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

i think qdm is a great thing if you only take mature animals the antler size will be bigger on a mature buck then a not mature. just like there body wieght will be grater along with doe's. wich in turns means more meat. if you shoot all the first deer you see you will end up with an unbalanced deer herd. qdma is about a herd ratio of 1-1 is ideal. not the total amount, for what the land can support.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

It's actually 1 to 1.3.;)

From the QDMA site:

"We are told that deer populations should be similar in attributes to those that were managed by wolves, coyotes, mountain lions, and native Americans. A 1:1.3 sex ratio, bucks:does, is probably "natural," based on populations that are controlled primarily by natural predators today. There aren't many of these kinds of populations around but there are enough upon which to make educated guesses about the past. "

Another important tip from the QDMA:

"The benefits of QDM do not come without costs. Typically, large tracts of land are required to achieve maximum results. While defining a minimum size is difficult, 600-1,000 acres is a reasonable starting point in most areas. While QDM can be successful on smaller areas, cooperation with hunters on neighboring properties and unique management practices are required."

Anyone have 600-1000 acres I can borrow?

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

No, NEW....but I'm talking all the time with the guys on the neighboring properties. What they tell me.....and what they DO....I have no comment on ;). I know one of them (120 acre lease) is trying to manage his part the right way. The other guy won't shoot does (or very few)....so we'll see how it goes. What I'm afraid is going to happen is.....I'm gonna whack a bunch of does....and the bucks might go over to his side during the rut.

I'll take that chance.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

New do you want all Hardwoods or a mixture of woods, ag, and swamp?;)

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

GMMAT,

GREAT POST!!! You nailed it brother! :)

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

That attitudes of some that practice it.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

That has nothing to do with QDMA and the groups principles;)

That has to do with people being jerks;) and they are in every group in America.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

You forgot to address the male-female ratio in the herd, a very important aspect of QDMA. Your post is off base.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Charlie let me say it this way.

I am a member of the NRA, and I flat out hate some of the things members say. I know the NRA does more good for me as a hunterand their PRINCIPLES far out way the whacko members they have.

Samething for my local N-W-T-F chapter I can not stomach some of those guys, but I joined to help wildlife and not to make friends(I have made a few).

Buckeye's post got me thinking on P & Y. A lot of people seem to hate P & Y, but few havereasons that does not involve some emotion;)

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

I understand completely what your saying ,Its allot like posting on here you get to meet so many nice open minded people.................;)

Just a nice place to go and be with like minded people that all have the same goals................;)

You know guys that enjoy the same things you enjoy..................;)

A place to get that warm fuzzy feeling every time the little post comes that says you have a Private message.................[:o]

Some place where its not all about the Horns!!!!!!!!!!:)

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

According to you, then, Germ.....You love the OSU Buckeyes!!

It's the people that are in the fan club that give you the willies!:D

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Exactly;)

For the record if you join any group it is your choice. Saying I just don't want to join is cool;)

And Jim I have nothing but love for you!! If you want to join QDMA I will buy you a membership:D

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Quality Deer Management
Quality deer management (QDM) is a management philosophy/practice that unites landowners, hunters, and resource managers in a common goal of producing healthy deer herds with balanced adult sex ratios and age structures. This approach typically involves protecting young bucks while harvesting an appropriate number of female deer to maintain herds within existing environmental and social constraints. A successful QDM program requires an increased knowledge of deer biology and active participation in management. This level of involvement extends the role of the hunter from mere consumer to manager. The progression from education to understanding bestows an ethical obligation on the hunter to practice sound deer management. Consequently, to an increasing number of landowners and hunters, QDM is a desirable alternative to traditional deer management.
Practicing QDM produces many benefits. Typically, the sex ratio becomes more balanced and the number (or proportion) of bucks in the older age classes increases. Often, more mature bucks are available for breeding, resulting in less stress on yearling bucks and an earlier, more-defined rut. In some cases, deer health and body weights improve due to improved habitat conditions, which also benefit many other wildlife species. The lower deer density also helps reduce crop damage and deer/vehicle collisions.
One obvious benefit is the increased presence of mature bucks and the exhilaration of observing their behavior. Many landowners and hunters receive great satisfaction from the increased involvement with their deer herd that QDM offers.
The benefits of QDM do not come without costs. Typically, large tracts of land are required to achieve maximum results. While defining a minimum size is difficult, 600-1,000 acres is a reasonable starting point in most areas. While QDM can be successful on smaller areas, cooperation with hunters on neighboring properties and unique management practices are required.
Participants must take an active role in management and maintain accurate harvest records to assess management progress and fine-tune management strategies. Harvest restrictions and rules, especially for young bucks, must be implemented and enforced. Where high deer populations already exist, initial QDM restrictions generally result in a reduced total buck harvest and an increased doe harvest. As such, QDM often requires a change in hunting practices and a new mindset.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Can I pay half?

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Yep:D

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Thats what I like about you guys always willing to help a guy out.:)

What's it cost any way? Tax deductible?

I can just add it to the others N.R.A. , R.M.E.F. & R.G.S. & V.H.S.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

30 bucks for a year 80.00 for 3.

I don't know if it is Tax deductible:) Yep add it in[8D]

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Can I do it on line?



I will probablyhave to do the 3 year stint cause I'm a littleslow about change, closesI can figure Carter was president the last time I felt it necessary for me to kill a doe.;)

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Nope better make you a lifer:D You need a lot of work[8D]

yes you can


https://www.qdma.com

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

I feel QDM is a great idea. The only problem I hear of it is when people try to make it an excuse to do something.

When someone shoots a small buck with the statement "I wanted to take the buck's bad geneticsout of herd", and it is only a 2 1/2 year old buck, then that's just a poor excuse. Team Illinois from Deam Season a year ago, tried pulling that one. I feel it's one of the biggest reason the Drurys didn't pick them too.

QDM has also given the image that you have to shoot several doe. Not always is it good for the herd to shoot a doe. I have a couple hunting spots where I haven't shot a doe in over 10 years, mainly because the herd needs them. But other spots I try to take as many. It just depends.

I feel QDM is great, as long as somebody doesn't make it into a badexcuse to shoot a deer.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

just read all 12 pages and this has got to be the best post made so far....lol that is funny.

seriously though, QDM is a great concecpt.