QDMA What don't you like
 

bawanajimgot me thinking

For those who do not like QDMA or QDMfor any reason let me know. I would like to compile a list and send to them and see what they say.

Please know one take this personel, lets look at it to help better an organzation. We did this in Michigan forumn and it really help.

So let us know won't don't you like about QDMA?

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Are you asking what problems folks have with Quality Deer Management OR the Org, the QDMA ???


Anyway, I copied my reply from the other QDM thread.....

When ever I see a post about"QDM" or theQDMA I know many will approach the thread with guns a blazin'! :(

FIRST, I must remind everyone that QDM isclaimed to be practiced by many folks in one form or another, however to often "QDM" is NOT practiced and applied as the founders of the term (the QDMA)meant for it to be!"QDM" is thrown around like some catch phrase when I can assure you, most folks simply have NO idea of what they speak! The QDMA does NOT support and approve of many folks who so loosly throw their terms and phrases around.Also, "QDM" should NOTbe confused with "TDM", they are totally different concepts and practices! [&:]:(

The QDMAis a group of individuals that represent THEmost-respected deer biologists, researchers and experts from around the country, it is not a single practice but an org. that works to promote sound management by educating sportsman about what needs to be done in order to regain control of todays herds and put the ratios and herd health back in check. Decades of improper hunting methods based on lack of sound biological facts have left todays herds badly out of whack and seriously scewed sex ratios. It's time to standup and take some responsibilty and all do our part.The QDMAneeds the help and support of serious management minded sportsman everywhere. It's a great, informative org and one you can be proud to be a part of. I tire of not seeing the org get the respect and attention it deserves because of the fact that a few uneducated individuals who know nothing about the org throw around some terms that they read in a magazine! It's NOT what several of you Antis think it is. Please take some time to actually look over the site and try to see if you understand where they're coming from and exactly what it is they are trying to do for our sport? I simply ask that anyone who wants to throw around the term "QDM" take some time to understand exactly what it IS! Thank you, good luck and good huntin'

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Both

QDMA org and QDM

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

This may be a 2 tubber

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

What's not to like? Everyone benifits, man and animal.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

With as much confusion as there seems to be over QDM, they can't be getting their message out very well.

Of course, it is getting out mainly through morons like myself, so perhaps that is the problem;)

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

It ain't work'n my hunt'n grounds. Aint nough deer here. I spend a dang month'er better search'n fer a spiker horn, at witch tyme he'is a goooonneerrrrrrr baby boy!

Problem is, ain't na big deer round there parts. So ya'l can puker up and kiss it where the qmd dont shin, ya'here

Just my too sents!

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Here is what I am talking about.

Did you know that QDM is about have the "right" number of deer. In some location it is about raising the number. It is not just about shooting does and shrinkingdeer numbers.

thank you KP

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

What I don't like is probably more to do with paraphrases than with idealism of Q.D.M.. I have no problem with people shooting does I have problems with people describing the doe shooting in terms more closely resembling the killing of pocket gophers in ones lawn. The total lack of respect given to any of the animals we hunt is never good for our sport.
A female deer eats no more than a male ,the whole reason for their demise is for their ability to reproduce.Not hardly their fault.
If heard reduction & habitat protection is your true goal than any of you that let a young buck walk in order to shoot a booner, then end up with tag soup are hypocrites.You could of accomplished the same goal by killing the young buck!!!!!!![:o] Remember its for the good of the herd. [:'(]

Of course we know its not about the horns........;););););)

Flame on!!!!!!!!!

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

I think like most things their message gets twisted, and you get some bad members and here we are.

I am a moron also:D

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

bawana.......this might be me you're describing, this year. I'll pass up a LOT of young bucks.....and I might not shoot a buck....thereby eating the soup.

And yes....I'll shoot every doe that stands broadside and gives me a shot. Our biologist said it wouldn't hurt our herd a bit to take a buck. So....I might. I might not. Why does it matter which one I take?

I think the does deserve the respect the bucks get, too. But the bucks don't spit out little ones. If I had too many bucks....I'd be shooting them.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

BawJ you can not have a reduction in a herd size by shooting bucks only. Can not be done. Shooting just bucks will explode a states or area's population.

You think QDMA thinks less of does? If so that is fine I will pass that along.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

"If I had too many bucks....I'd be shooting them"

That was too good to not repeat!

So there, what he said - yeah!

Put it in your pipe and smoke it boy!

Come-on! Come-on! What you got now... huh...

You gonna cry? You gonna cry? Come on...... Cry....

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

I never said not to shoot does.

What I did say is if you" should " shoot the first "doe" then you" should "shoot the first " buck "also.

Because its not about the " horns " ;);););)

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

You do know Folgers makes decaf, right?:D

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

In a lot of places if guys would shoot 1 buck(any) for 1 doe things would be a lot better.;)

You are correct it has nothing to do with horns:D

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Two thingsabout state-mandated QDM (antler restrictions).

SLOB HUNTERS:

Since PA has implemented antler restrictions, I find no less than 4-6 deer per year (bucks) left to rot in the woods because they were "ground checked" and failed to meet the restriction criteria. Obviously, this is counter-productive.

Your hunters are the stewards of the program, and if you get one guy in every patch of woods just groundchecking every buck he sees - he might kill 2-3-4 bucks before he finds a legal one.

You also have lower success rates for the buck kill, which frustrates a lot of hunters, and causes them to whine a lot, or engage in "less than ethical" behavior to kill a deer. Your average schmuck is happy going out and hammering a spike. Mostguys have never had to pass up a buck. It doesn't sit well.

Honestly, I've never heard so much pathetic whining in my life, as I've heard from the PA hunting ranks over this antler law.

Personally, I think it's great - and have enjoyed the best 5-6 years of my hunting career since it began. Some people would look any gift horse in the mouth, I guess.

__________________________________________________ _________

Problem #2 - GREED

You'll never see posters go up so fast. Everybody starts this whole "my property, my deer" culture, where they think they have to horde "their" deer from everyone else, and really start tightening the clamps on who gets in there to hunt. Posters have gone up like wallpaper around here over the 5 years since AR's began. Exclusive leases popping up all over the place, too.

Of course, if you do your homework, and you're a decent person, you won't have a problem finding a place to hunt. It might not be the best spot in the world, but if you're good at what you do, you'll fill your tags.
__________________________________________________ ____________________
In my honest opinion, PA has 1 Million+ hunters, and they're packed like rats in an ever-shrinking huntable acreage. Our problem isn't with AR's so much as it is with the overpopulation of hunters and Hunter-Hunter conflicts. AR's would work great in an area where you have more room to breathe, and guys don't feel like they have to shoot the first buck they see, before somebody else does.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

That's a good point Germ and realistically in areas that have doe to buck ratios of 4 to 1 or higher, just do the math on that if you kill5 bucks you should kill20 does just to keep that ratio and more than 20 doesif you want to improve it. That is a lot of slickheads, how many people are doing that.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

You are very right about that...................and all most right about the secondone.;)

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

If there were 30 bucks and 30 does in the herd I hunt.....you'd be right, bawana. I'd shoot one to one.

I likely have a LOT more does than bucks, though. Isn't the "ideal" a 1:1 ratio? Shouldn't that be what I should be striving for?

I don't give a rat's ass about being "fair" (i.e. taking 1:1). I want the ratio to be better.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

"I'll bet he's even got a commi flag tacked up on the wall inside of his garage"

Jim he's been livinhere all of his life.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

You "almost" got the second one right too!

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Me neither, it ain't bout be'n fair. It is bout tricking them there other fella's into not shooting the bucks, so I can have'm...

See, that ought'a learn'ya...

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

I think Baj has some good points and I want to hear them. I do not think QDMA thinks less of does I think they look at the big picture. If an area needs does shot, you shoot them.
Saying we need to shoot a lot of does is not showing a lack of respect for the animal. Shooting the deer and leaving it lay sure does.
Baj there are some very good deer managers who care nothing about antlers. There are guys who care only about antlers. Lumping them into one group is just not fair.

There are two good books I have read

Deer Management 101
Deer Wars(PA QDM plan)

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

I have no problems with the QDMA. What I have a problem with is when hunters believe they are practicing QDM. Here is my post from the other thread, it says it all for me:

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Well said

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

I also agree Germ, and to those of you who don't know me, I was joking in my last few posts.

Problem is in my area, and from the sounds of it, many others, people want to shoot bucks. And they want to do it so badly that they'll shoot the first little guy to walk by, but passed on ten doe. And as if that isn't bad enough, they complain that there are no good bucks!

It is all about balance, not horns, but lets not pretend that horns aren't just simply wonderful! Love'em!

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

That's where some opponents of QDM show their short sightedness. They think its about reducing the population this year and not next year and the year after. You can't do that shooting young bucks. Plus true QDM, as has been said here before, is about better buck to doe ratios. How do you accomplish this while shooting young bucks?

IMO people who do not believe in QDM, maybe not the QDMA, are selfish and living for themselves now, not the future and the betterment of the herd.

"Just because you can do something, doesn'tmean its a good idea."

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Good post dan.

Hey, is "betterment" really a word? Sounds like chewing gum...

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

I looked it up, and it is a word and it fits very nicely as you used it.

Man, don't I feel stupid!

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

HuntingBry,

QDM does not set its goal at a 1:1 ratio.
Based on Deer Management 101, an ideal herd is logically 1:1, but QDM recognizes that, as you said, this would result in a small deer herd and less sightings, therefore less hunting satisfaction. So the book says that a common target is often a 2:1 doe to buck ratio. In most places the ratio is now at 3 or 4 or more to 1 due to overhunting bucks.

The book does talk about trophy management, which shoots for 1:1 or even a reverse ratio. You want all your nutrients going to the bucks and it makes the rut super intense, etc. But this was beyond basic QDM and is for places that can absolutely control their herd (fences) and have a lot of time and money.

HuntingBry, read your post on the other QDM thread and agree with what you are saying. The biologists would prefer 1:1, but need the hunter (the "trigger"), so they try to keep them happy with higher ratios.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Some of your guys have made some excellenet points.
I can't really pick on QDM, but I like to pick on those try to blow it up and take it out of context.[8D]

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

I think QDMA is better compared to religion or belief, not a set of rigid rules. If you believe in it (have faith in it), then you will (or should) act accordingly. Put your faith into action so to speak. If you make it just an endless series of rules imposed on people who don't believe in it, you will breed resentment/rebellion.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Very good point. I haven't read that book, but it sounds like an interesting read. I may have to check it out. Also, you said QDM does not set its goal at a 1:1 ratio. That depends on who you talk to. You reference the book which sounds like it is very hunting oriented. If you talk to a whitetail biologist, he/she will most likely say that a 1:1 ratio is ideal.

Personally, I don't think it is realistic to hope for a 1:1 ratio and a herd within the carrying capacity. Whitetails are tenacious survivors and adaptable to so many environments that they are bound to overpopulate without herd management. Sounds like another species I can think of.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

Come on Dan you can do better than that ! How does shooting anymature buckover any other buck change the ratio ? It doesn't!!!!!!!
Are we bettering the ratio or are we saving habitat?
Or both?
Its not about the horns..........;)

And as for living for "me" you hit that outta the park. Unlike many I havepurchased habitat and spend every day making it better for the deer .
I believe better habit, not less deer is the answer. We do not have that many deer in "North Western PA" that they are shoot on sight .We have great habitat and I strive to make mine the best it can be.

If you feel the need to kill ever deer that crosses your path ,enjoy ,I myself do not feel the need in my woods.

Did I mention its not about the 140's -150's .....;)

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

What you describe about having better habitat is a partQDM;).
QDM does not = less deer for some areas, I do not undestand why some get stuck on that point.

Your area might be well below:) As far more habitat not going to happen. Only thing I know for sure is there will be less land to hunt deer on 10 years from now[:o]

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

I will still have the same amount of land to hunt , because I cared enough to buy myself some..:)

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

You might, but what is around you is just as important;)

We have are own also, but one day we might be pinched out;)

Buying your land was really cool btw, and improving the habit is way cool also.
Have you ever talk to a Wildlife Biologist about your property?

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

I was thinking the same thing.

RE: QDMA What don't you like
 

So bawjim, you dont feel that having an age structure in your deer herd is morenatural than having a an age structure that is 90% 1.5 bucks, 8 % 2.5 bucks, and 2% 3.5 and up?