RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

Here's a photo of another person's test.

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

I guess the difference would be that this picture is an OBVIOUS poor setup as you can see the black streak on the bottom blue vane where it is contacting the outer ring.

Or are you implying that BigJ12 is lying?

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

Probably getting sponsor $$$ to promote the WB. Why does anyone need a containment rest unless you are crawling around on your belly hunting mulies? Get a containment drop away if you want containment IMO. Why is fletching contact a great feature?

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

It's easy....I tookthe Whisker Biscuitout of the package and put it on my bow.;)

How do you like my arrows?No comment on that?I believe you said that you never saw anyone who shot 4in vanes through a Whisker Biscuit that didn't have damage. I believed I proved otherwise.

This is precisely my point. A newbie reads that and thinks there is no way they can shoot 4in vanes through a Whisker Biscuit without some kind of damage and that is flat out false.....and I proved it.

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

If I took a drop-a-way or any other kind of rest and didn't set it up correctly, the arrow would be bouncing off of the rest causing the same (if not worse) kind of damage....so what....all you showed mewas anarrow shot from a bow that was not set up correctly. I can show you hundreds of pictures like that from all types of rests drop-a-way's included.

ARE you implying that I'm lying?

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

BigJ....

Good for you on the vanes.

It's not the reason "I" switched, though. You know.....I could go to my bow shop, tonight, and make a video .....WITH sound....of me drawing 10 different arrows through the WB. IF it proved my point RE: noise.....would you concede MY point?

I have a feeling that I would be accused of neither me nor my bow shop owner being able to properly set up a WB or draw an arrow through it, properly. That's been the M.O., so far.

if I make the video/audio......will you concede MY point?

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

Ok instead getting all in a WB debate lets take a step back.

BigJ
Would you say a drop away will "hide" setup problems more on a bow than a WB. Which is why one shows and other does not?

I tried Blazers this year and the flew aweful with a BH. Feathers all was great, I look at the spine chart and I was right in the brink of getting a stiffer arrow. I bought some for a test and the Blazer were great. I think the blazer showed me a setup issue the feathers were "Hidding" because the arrow recovered so fast.

Is this what is happing with some of these guys? The WB is showing there setup problems.

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

Now WHERE did THAT come from????

I implied NOTHING of the such.

I've been saying for over a year how the noise from a WB cost me an attempt on a buck. I'm willing to take your word on the vanes as the truth. Why am I not afforded the same coutesy?

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

How sad that when someone is proven wrong that they have to resort to denial or implications of lying.



What point??.......that drawing a bow indoors in front of a video camera somehow equates to scaring a deer in the woods from 20 feet up a tree? I know you try to take EVERY WB thread and turn it into your own little defense of why you spooked one of the first deer you ever tried to draw a bow on but give it a rest.........no one cares and tens of thousands of animals fall to the rest year after year so your little "perception" of what happened is meaningless.

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

There is a big difference here Jeff. You said that you "never" saw a 4in vane shot through a W/B that didn't have damage and I proved that was not the case.

I on the other hand never said the W/B didn't make noise....what I did say is I thought the noise that it does make is negligible.

Do some arrows make more noise than others? I'm sure they do. All of the arrows that I have shot through the W/B have made very little (negligible) noise, even when I was shooting alum. Gamegetter II's. None would ever prompt me to worry about noise when hunting.

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

You also thought you aimed correctly at the one you wounded.


Live and Learn.

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

And you wonder why he sent you PM's:eek:

I thought you guys were going to ignore each other[&:]

For the sake of all of us here knock it off!!![:@]

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

I never did this....and your attempts at defamation, Atlas, are relentless. I don't know why you get off on this.

What's CLEAR is that you'd never give me the benefit of the doubt on ANYTHING. If my stand creaked, that day, you'd swear itwas me. Ifa limb fell....you'd swear it was something I did.

I made a bad hit on a deer, last Fall....and came into these forums and admitted everything I'd done wrong....and have done so subsequently. I'm nowhere near perfect......but Idid enough things right to be able to salvage a fairly good season.Yet.....you'll sit at your computer.....1,000 miles away and call me a liar.

Rich.

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

Yes, I did. I also admitted (again, in public)....when I played everything back in my mind.....that I likely DIDN'T aim, correctly (newsflash).I never claimed"no fault" when I injured that deer. I readily admitted my mistakes.

I'd find it HIGHLY pompous of me to claim to know what went wrong in a deer hunting scenarioa fellow hunter depicted. I wasn't there. I have to rely on what the only person that was there is telling me.If you told me your quiver squeaked and it spooked a deer......even though I've shota few deer with the same quiver.....andNEVER had an issue......do I call you a liar? Not me.

I really just have a hard time understanding why you can't accept my story of what occurred that day......at 27'.......when others have also stated their issues (same issues) with the same piece of equipment.

That's what our differences all boil down to. That's it.

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

What other reason would there be to discount BigJ's photo?


I (and many others) TRIED to give you the benefit of the doubt by TRYING to help you when you first got here and many times since then.......Your response has ALWAYS been to get defensive at ANY implication that YOU may have done something wrong. Despite countless decades of experience at your disposal you chose to get nasty and respond with your famous "You weren't there" line and insist you knew better (even though you had NEVER hunted deer before in your life)...........very little has changed since then (proven by your wounding thread).

I never said you were lying...........I (and many others) just said you were wrong. That is something you could not handle............and STILL can't considering you take EVERY chance you can to try and continue to validate that point in EVERY WB thread that pops up (regardless of the subject).

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

Simple,

1.I proved beyond a doubt that you can set up a W/B to shoot 4in vanes without damaging them. (see pics)

2. When you spooked that deer you posted on here that it was the Biscuit and ONLY the Biscuit that could have caused it. I remember replying that I thought it was probably something other than the Biscuit. I also remember saying that I believe (and I still do)you deep down insideare convincedit was the Biscuit...and that's ok.

What I and others tried to tell you was that, in our experience (which is a lot of years in the field) it was probably something else that got that deer attention but you would have nothing of that and dug your heels in the ground and stuck to your story. In essence you gave no mind to a lot of people with many many years of bowhunting. You never ever once said "it's possible I guess but I still think it was the rest" or ANYTHING to that nature. You simply dismissed what we had to say.

The truth is, there is no way to tell what spoked your deer, you have you theory and I have mine.Thefletching are quite another story, I proved that wives tale to be false....again in bows up to about 280fps.



So what I should have been reading was something in the order of:I was wrong about the vane damage, I guess you CAN shoot 4in vanes through a Whisker Biscuit without damaging them.

Instead I get.."good for you on the vanes"

Iknow how I am andI know itwould have been different had the roles been reversed.

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

I didn't call him a liar, at all. i wouldn't do that. I postd the photo I did....to show that others have not had the same results that he has. Do you think "I" might have a different result than others with the WB? That is ALL I'm trying to say. JUST because it doesn't occur with your arrows....doesn't mean it doesn't occur, with mine (the noise issues). I'll take you guys at your word. I do. I would only ask that MY points not be discounted. Is that asking too much?

The only thing I have issues with.....is when others interject scenarios into a situation that didn't occur. I think you're a knowledgeable hunter. I've learned from you and MANY others, here.

If you weren't there, though.....you really have no idea of what transpired. It's that simple.

So if I say the WB makes noise.....and the deer heard it......I'm wrong. There's a bunch of us that are wrong about it, I guess. I guess I'm wrong every time I hear it. I swear I think I hear something, though.

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

BigJ...

If you took my post as saying you weren't being truthful.....that is NOT how it was intended.I have NO issues with you OR your claims/results......never have. I'm happy for you. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

There are others who have had dissimilar results.....and I don't think they're lying, either.

Again....I have NO reason to doubt you.

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

Germ.

I have not shot both enough to be able to determine that, but if I had to guess, I would say you were correct. I have said all along no matter what type of rest, bow, arrows or anything you shoot, you need to set it properly and make sure all of the components are compatable with each other or you will continue to have problems.

Some worse than others no doubt.

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

You became abrasive at the first hint of a non ego soothing post in that thread...........no different then the WB blame thread.


No one called you a liar.........they just offered a more likely explanation for your experience seeing how you had never shot a deer before. You chose to dismiss that and insist you knew better then people who had already been in that spot 100 times............and you continue to this day.

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

No problem, thanks for the clarification.

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

Yet you continue to insist that there is a noise issue with the WB no matter how small of a minority you find yourself in. You don't let one single WB thread pass without making it clear that you think noise is a concern.


All anyone was trying to tell you was that considering the situation.........(A newbie deer hunter trying to draw a bow on his first deer that was in close and the deer spooked and ran..........vs..........tens of thousands of animals of all kinds that fall to the rest year after year with no problems.) With you having no idea and no experience with deer before they were just trying to help you understand that about 50 other things were more likely to be the cause of you getting busted..........you chose to fixate on the one that relieved you of blame and refused any other possible variables.

I would think that since then the experience you have gained actually drawing and shooting some deer would have helped you understand that better..........................apparently not.

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

Let's be honest, Atlas. That thread's been erased from the system....or I'd go back and cut/paste your initial reply. You interjected SO MANY things into your response that had NO reality to them....all in an attempt to make what i did look even worse. HOW could I feel worse for what I'd just done? It was simply inuendo and false pretenses that had no business being interjected. I admitted to injuring a deer. I admitted to making mistakes. I won't admit to things that didn't occur...and that's the ONLY thing I took offense to.

A likely explanation? If you weren't there....can you positively tell me what spooked my deer? Can you tell me what did? I'd never claim to tell you what went wrong in one of your deer hunting scenarios......simply because I hadn't experienced the same troubles. I wasn't there.

I have no trouble admitting when I do something wrong. Ask my wife:).

Could the noise from my WBhave affected my deer, that day? If the answer is YES......then why is that so hard to believe?

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1694383&mpage=1&key=hit&#169 4383

Your remark to Davidmil was "David: I respect you as a person and as an experienced hunter.....but you have NO IDEA of how much my buck was quartering. With all due respect (and I mean that)....your statement is unfounded."

My reply.

" Where have we all heard this before??

If you are just going to dismiss every option that you don't agree with based soley on the fact that we weren't sitting in the tree with you........then I don't see the point in posting. You already have your mind made up and no one will convince you otherwise because of your old standby excuse of "You were the only one there" so therefore are the only one who could possibly know what happened.

What you fail to realize is that many guys here HAVE been in your EXACT shoes on MANY occasions. They are trying to help you by giving you advice on years and years of experience. Were they in YOUR tree?? Of course not.........have they "Been there, and done that"??? YES.......and in many cases for years and years and years.

Why not lower your defenses a little bit and actually learn something from all the people here and the vast knowledge they have to share. Instead of going on the offensive every time someone questions your story.

You have been hunting DEER for 1 whole year (and a couple days). In that short amount of time you have been busted and blamed your equipment and REFUSED to accept any other possible explanation........now you have put a bad shot on a deer that you don't know where you hit, are unsure of what the blood sign meant, and you got down too fast and probably pushed him into the next county. I am having a hard time finding anything in your story that you did right (except the valiant search effort). Perhaps most alarming is this all happened when presented with the BEST kill shot available. Quartering away at 12 yards??? That should be a slam dunk unless a MAJOR problem was involved. Your point of aim was wrong as David mentioned which also suggests you don't know a deer's anatomy (I guess that post WAS needed).

Your attempts to recover the deer are admirable and I don't envy the feeling yu have in your gut over the outcome of this mess..........BUT, it's time to face the facts that you screwed up HUGE and on MANY levels.............I know it's hard for you to accept the fact that you are a novice because you have hunted for many years..........but you are.......this thread should have a big red ROOKIE MISTAKE stamp on it.

The sooner you realize this and open yourself up to advice, and the help of others the sooner you will not be making so many mistakes.

I really hope you start listening to advice soon because it sounds like you have deer all over the place by you and these "I hit one and can't find him" threads get old really fast."


Really??

Really?


You are hopeless.

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

And I was having a pissing match

Paul

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

Did you win?

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

Yes, the noise could have caused the deer to spook. I still shoot a TM Hunter style rest and the metal prongs make a slight noise when the arrow is drawn against them. I am not fond of putting moleskin on it to silence them or any other fabric and I usually just put a tiny drop of synthetic oil(scentless)on each prong, works like a charm, no noise. One afternoon this past season I forgot my pouch with my little tube of oil in it, no biggie, until I tried to draw on a doe at 14 yds. She was looking away and I had good cover and as soon as those prongs made that noise she bounded off a few yards(without ever looking),she stood there with here head turned around and her ears dialed in like a radar in my direction. I had no shot and she slipped back the way she came about thirty seconds later. So yes I think an unusual sound at the wrong moment will spook them, funny thing is 25 minutes later a buck came in and never even noticed the sound (he was busy making a scrape and hooking some over hanging branches, soI'd say he was a little distracted)and I killed him at about 17 yds. My dad shoots the WB and loves it but itmesses his vanes up a little (but in the interest of honesty his setup is definitely in need of some fine tuning IMO).

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

Deflection.

I didn't think you'd answer my question......and I'm certainly happy for you to find that thread. I did NOTHING but apologize and admit to making a mistake I'll always remember.

No one was in that tree, that evening, but me. No one was in the tree with me the "other"morning. I ownup REPEATEDLY to the mistake I made. I don't own up to a mistake I didn't make.

I've also been successful on a few occasions.....and I've made many other mistakes that I've also owned up to.I always will. I don't think everyone comes in here andtells of their mistakes.Their choice.....and I respect that, too. If I wasn't trying to learn.....Id have kept my mouth shut.

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

I didn't know you asked one.





We know......we know..........then why post about it??.......You don't care what anyone else has to say unless they agree 100% with you.......so what are you looking for??.........confirmation that you are right? It's pointless.


How you could possibly learn when you dismiss any and all input that doesn't jive with your pre-conceived notions is beyond me...........especially since you STILL do it to this day.

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

Wow,this got out of hand.


The WB isn't one of the easier restto setup,it is one of the hardest rest on the market to keep from wrinkling vanes,which is a sign of poorly setupWB, that has been said by many that even like the rest.

If you don't beleive it,do some group tuning with it and one with micro adjustment elevation and windage.;)


Not stating that it can't be set up properly,but I have set up too many rest and no it isn't one of the easier ones.The easiest might be the old Golden Key Platinum.



Here is a QUIET from the factory rest,if it is as quiet as the previous model,it is completely silent.Complete contaiment and yes I have crawled around stalking turkeys with an arrow nocked with it's predecessor.

Complete contaiment and will recapture on a letdown.


100 times better IMO

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

I disagree..........I think it's setup is very easy. I am FAR from a bow tuning guru and I have no problems.







Looks like a cool rest..........but MAN that is a ton of moving parts and twice the price.

I'm sure it works just fine but I see it as an attempt to fix a problem that doesn't exist (quoting someone from earlier).

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

One of my favorite rests, and what I put on my girlfriends target bow.

I had a similar rest like in your picture, but it was made by SME. Decent rest as far as design went, I liked it. It had some durablility issues though, I stripped a few screws out while adjusting it. I will be honest though, I set it up three or four times on different bows before it happened. And the one I had had a linkage system simular to the Muzzy Zero Effect.

From what I understand the new company that has it did a good job of fixing the few problems I had with it. I loved that arrow holder.

I was just at a local shop a little while ago and asked him if he sells a lot of WB rests. He said not really. It took some pushing, but he finally admited he didn't care for them much either, but he doesn't tell people that if they want one. He said pretty much what we have, they work but he thinks there are better rests.

Paul

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

Paul


The same person designed both.The sme version was when he worked for sme and didn't like the way he or the rest was being changed from his original design so he went out on his own.


The newer rest incorporate some much better engineering and are easier to tune.

I have the first rest he made after going out on his own.I have 1 hole that got stripped because of alot of different sessions of group tuning from different setups.(there is a second hole that takes care of it)That model does not have micro adjust but he now makes a model that does have it.I might have to have that one.:D



Atlas,the tuning is the part of the setup that gets overlooked and the WB isn't very easy to TUNE.Setup is easy but what rest isn't easy to set up.Yes,the rest I posted is more expensive but for a reason.The moving parts are not an issue.


Walk back and group tuning with a Wb isn't nearly as easy as it is with other rest.I like being able to group tune and go back to paper and have a good paper tear.I am not talking about paper tuning.

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

GMMAT and Atlasman....PMS? Wow, you guys are insane!

The rest in the picture has problems with it's small screws in the arrow containment area becoming loose and falling out. THEY ARE TINY AND IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND! TRUST ME.

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

Well actually they are ignoring each other

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

Good to know,looks like a little lock tite would be a good investment.

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

Dosnt Chuck also use Scent Lok?

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

Mullaney's an old man. Probably shakes so much he has to have a full containment rest to keep from bouncing his arrow off the rest when he draws. [8D]

I have to admit, a big part of my aversion to the whisker biskit is the way so many guys seem tothink they HAVE to have a full containment rest.Let them blab about it long enough and italways winds up sounding like one of those late night, half-hour scam infomercials . "NOW how much would you pay? BUT WAIT....!"

LOL

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

I don't think it's something you HAVE to have...........it definitely doesn't hurt though.

In my case (laying my bow on it's side) in my stand it actually is something I rely on.

RE: For all the Whisker Biscuit haters....
 

This mirrors MY shop owner's thoughts, too. When I was in the golf business......I never really got caught up in what the general populus was hitting (clubs). I put more stock in what the PROS were hitting (club professionals, included). I didn't think that Big Bertha woods or irons were neccessarily BETTER irons/woods.......just because they were more popular (in the public eye). I would imagine that top flite balls are the most popular balls on the market, today. Are they the best golf balls? That's up for interpretation. For me, they're not. There's a HUGE price difference between a PROV1 and a top flite. The characteristics of the PROV line better suit my game. It might not be worth it, to some.....and some can't reap the benefits of the ball.

If I watch 20 guys draw their bows.....on the line at a 3D shoot (or just shooting in our indoor range)......I'm likely going to see the majority of them that are, in my eyes, over-bowed. If you can't set your pin on your target and draw it straight back....I can see where full arrow containment might be THE determining factor in which rest you choose. If you're a spot and stalk hunter......ditto. I like the full arrow containment feature of my QAD......but I didn't choose my rest for THAT ability, alone.

Sure....."My" guy likely sells more WB's than drop-aways. HE doesn't utilize one, though. "Most" guys I see at the shoots I attend, don't either.I'm likely a LITTLE more avid than the average bow hunter. I want to know what MY peers are utilizing (the guys who shoot and hunt as much...or MORE...than I do). I could really cae less what is most popular.

Iplayed on our state's Mid-Amateur golf tournament, last year. I din't see many top-flite's utilized (none, really). I saw aLOT of PROV's.

Just a thought......