Is this cheating?
 

I spoke to a good friend and hunting partner the other day about planning a trip. We’d reflected on what we’d learnedlast year and had fun telling each other some hunting stories. We started talking about a new hot spot we found last year that we’re both excited about and how it is hard to get in there without spooking the deer. He then passed along a tip that another friend had told him about. We both feel that this is borderline cheating and I thought I’d get your opinion.

Apparently, this other friend has a pretty good trick for not spooking deer when traveling through their territory in the early morning hours. He brings a standard one-watt LED flashlight in the woods and scans the area before and while traveling through. If he sees eyes glowing, he keeps the flashlight pointed into the eyes of the deer. He went as far as to say, he’d once gottenreallyclose since they were near his stand and they (the deer) stuck around so long that he had to keep the light in their eyes until he was on the stand and settled in. He then turned off the light and waited for daylight. Shortly after, guess what… no real surprise, he shot a deer with his bow.

How does this make you guys feel?

There are rules about using lights, but they vary and are very vague from what I’ve seen. Further, most safety courses tell you that you should carry a flash light in the dark so that you can be identified as a human. But all rules aside for a moment. What do you think; is this cheating?

RE: Is this cheating?
 

I wouldn't say what you described was "cheating" at all.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

I would "think".....in MY area of the state.....what you're describing would be extremely illegal.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

Though I don't agree with it, I guess as long as its legal its ok. This sounds like another ethics question to me. I don't find "blinding" a deer just so you can get into your stand ethical. Whatever happened to just walking slowly and silently anyhow? Two years ago I walked through some canary grass to my ground blind and 10 minutes later I saw two does stand up, one on each side of the little trail I followed through it. Everyone does his own thing in the woods. I you really have that hard of a time getting to a stand without spooking deer, there are probably a few adjustments that can be made to your setup and methods to make it work. Just my .02. This will be an interesting discussion I think.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

I don't beleive that it's illegal in WV to spotlight a deer as long as you don't shoot it. So I don't think what you describe is cheating.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

I don't think that a 1 watt flashlight counts as a spotlight either. If the deer were going to run I think they would run either way. Never tried it so I don't know though.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

I guess that I don't like to term things as "cheating" when it comes to hunting, as it makes it sound like a game. I would more likely use terms like ethical/unethical and legal/illegal. What you described does not sound illegal and ethics in a case like that is up to the individual. It still ended a case of fair chase.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

Well, I agree that it isn’t a game to most, but since it has rules that are to be followed, and not following them would mean something very close to “cheating” I’m going to keep the word, but I know what you’re saying. I guess I’m just having trouble getting my feelings into text.
When I first heard this story I was offended by it. In VA the regs are simple, but probably not written around this situation. The more I thought about it, the less offensive it became to me, but I would call it synthetic, for lack of a better term, and I think it would depend on why one was hunting. For instance, if you didn’t have any money and needed to put some food on the table, I don’t’ think this is that big a deal. It’s not like he shot him while the light was in his eyes. According to the hunter, the flashlight was put away for more than an hour before he shot the animal that he did.
But I’m not in the position to justify needing the meat. To me, I like to use hunting to test myself, see how good I am, while keeping it pretty natural. I don’t use decoys or bait (Food anyway). I try to keep it simple and beat them at their own “game” for lack of a getter term, let them screw up if you will, and the game has rules. If you don’t follow the rules it means you’re not good at the game. I like to feel like I could get dropped off just about anywhere with limited supply and be a successful hunter and survive. Prove I’m worthy as a descendant of my ancestors I guess.

So my opinion is – it’s not as bad as I originally thought, but it is synthetic. Since I changed my opinion a few times on this matter, I thought I’d see what you thought, or how you thought/think…

RE: Is this cheating?
 

I agree to your labeling it as synthetic in a way, as the light source was used to escape and evade detection for better choice of words. I guess I personally find the end result of a deer being taken a hour later to be acceptable, as the hunter still had to show some skill in remaining undetected for the time while in stand. With that said, I am not likely ever to want to use a light in this fashion.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

IMO a deer isn't just going to hang out because it has been hit with a light in the eyes. I have spooked many a deer when walking through the woods in the AM and even though you have a light in their eyes they aren't going to stick around long with crunching leaves from you walking footsteps. I think it was a freak deal or he is blowing smoke up your butt with his story.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

I see nothing illegal or unethical about it..at least from my standpoint. The guy used his head, and his flashlight, to make sure the deer didn't spook. Sounds like a smart guy to me.

On the other hand, try that in my neck of the woods and the deer would laugh as you walked by and then tell all their friends exactly where you put your tree stand up that morning.

;)

RE: Is this cheating?
 

ditto

RE: Is this cheating?
 

i dont think it is sincehes hunting in legal hours.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

I don't know. A couple of years ago we went down to a spot we camp in my back yard that deer travel through with the kids to clean-up some of our stuff before some rain came in and there were deer there. My son and I were able to get really close, in fact I started to get worried that we were too close. My son was only like seven and I was worried that he could get hurt. But, the deer I'm talking about have nothing to fear in the area I'm talking about. Everyone has enough yard that the deer stick around, but not enough room to hunt. Everyone has between 3 and 5 acres, but no one hunts in there. We were walking in quiet cut grass, but did walk up to them with a light in their eyes.
Also, I've never hunted with the guy but I do hunt some of the same private property that he does. I've never seen him breaking the law. Bow season he's got a bow and so on, no bait, no spot lights, legal hours.
Who knows?

RE: Is this cheating?
 

The idea does not sound realistic to me, at least in NJ.

First off, IDO think it's unfair on the animals bahalf to use a flashlight to temporarily freeze the deer until you get into your tree.

Having said that, I've used a flashlight to get my tree in the morning hours since I've started hunting.......Knowing full well that any deer in Jersey that sees a flashlight, even tiny ones(flashlight), is long gone before the beam even hits the eyes. Our deer don't tolerate lights very well. That's why I cringe every time I have to walk to a spot in the dark using my light.(and believe me its tiny, it's actually a pen light, just bright enough to see where I'm stepping). Even using the pen light, you get the occational crashing of hooves in the distance. I just keep saying to myself they were a buch of fawns.

I can't imagine a mature buck being hitfrom 50-60 yds(or less)with a light, and not blow right out of the area.

Maybe it's just my state.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

THE reason I posted what I did......

A couple of years ago.....a car load of teens were stranded....in a broken down vehicle. While they were waiting for help......they were shining their flashlight into fields and woods.....spotlighting deer (again....with a flashlight).

They were ALL cited by a warden who witnessed this.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

if its not illiagel ok, i wound not do it, seems to take the fun out of it all.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

I guess that the game warden was bored, as there can be no other good excuse for being a dink. Stranded kids flashing a flashlight at some deer and they get cited? The warden's namemust have been RIchard.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

Red Lion:

It's AGAINST THE LAW to spotlight deer in my district of NC. Period. He was enforcing the law.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

But you've got to admit, "The warden's name must have been Richard" is funny!

RE: Is this cheating?
 

:)

I see the humor.....but it's been a problem around here for years. If it weren't.....they wouldn't be so adamant about it. if you look at it from the warden's POV.....how was he to know he wasn't looking at a poacher?

It made the news, here.....and there was a lot of grumbling.....but the bottom line is....they broke the law. They were ALL fined.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

It seems a little excessive, I must say, but Game Wardens aren't exactly known to be lenient.

I think I'd have to let the kids slide.

If I was walking through a field with a flashlight just having some fun with my friends, would this warrant a citation?.......I certainly hope not.

I think alot of these wardens are too damn gung-ho...A little dicretion would be nice.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

I don't think the deer stuck around because of the light. Maybe it wasn't even the same deer.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

It would be illegal in NY ....so it really wouldn't matter to me .... if it were legal? .... I still wouldn't be flashing a light all over as I was walking to my stand

RE: Is this cheating?
 

I don't view this as cheating, he didn't take the shot while using the light and was just walking in. I walked into a bunch of does with light on and had them hang, but usually the moment that light climbs the tree they'll move away. If you didn't spook them too bad, they may return, they were there in the first place for a reason and we usually put our stands in locations where we know deer frequent.

Kel

RE: Is this cheating?
 

i dont see what is wrong with this as long as they didnt have a gun. spotlights dont kill deer,guns/bows do. they have a gun in this situation and its a WHOLE nuther scenario.

If it is illegal to use a spotlight no matter what in NC then i say the game warden was doing right. breaking game laws is breaking game laws, though some are obviously alot worse than this scenario.

i never knew it was illegal if you didnt have a gun on you, cuz honestly what harm can this do? are you going to blind the deer to death?

RE: Is this cheating?
 

It does indeed work!! It is illegal to spot light deer here. We don't use a flashlight when accessing our bowhuntingspots. It's too open here and draws attention. Plus the deer seem to get curious and will investigate. I want to get in and out undetected by both competition and deer. One of the biggest reasons we scout. I want to know how to approachor leave an area without running into deer or at least keep it to a minimum.

However when I run the grain dryer at night, I've walked within yards of many deer using a flashlight when checking bins or am just bored.Some of them being very nice bucks. You keep the light on them, you would be amazed how much you can get away with. Youcan walk right up on them with the wind in your face and a quiet approach. A poacher would have a hay day doing it.

I can see why shining is illegal here and am glad it is. It is a really unfair advantage and our deer are just as skiddish as anyone elses.

Tim

RE: Is this cheating?
 

might sound crazy but if its that hard to get in there without spookin the deer an u know theres a dandy in there.. sleep in your tree stand.(if you got a comfortable one) i know a guy who does it.. i dont think i could do it well then again if i got a monster on trail camera it might be worth it.. jus a thought.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

MDDave:

I've got a spot that I HAVE to beat the deer in there to have a chance. My best buck to date.......I didn't even go to bed, that night. Lisa and I had been out with friends......and I made a decision to go to stand....in lieu of going to bed. I got on stand a little earleir than 3:30......and it was 14 deg.! I had a choice to sleep or get in undetected. It's not something I do every time out in the AM......but it's a proven tactic.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

I've heard of a guy doing this in another forum. The turn out was a awesome trophy. Apparantly he had been hunting this buck for a while, and it was the only way to beat him to the area.

I was impressed andhave respect for anyone who goes to theseextremes.
I was wondering if there was a legal issue here, but probably not.
As long as your bow is cased you should be legal. I doubt he did though.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

I actually find it HARD to believe...the deer just stood there while climbed up his stand, got all his gear organized etc. Seems far fetched to me.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

Yeah I'd have to agree here. I don't see holding a light on a deer's eyes holding them there for long. I thought about how many times I've had a deer in the headlights, and before long they're bolting. I'm thinking this is kind of a BS deal where it may have happened like one time.....just saying....don't get me wrong...It very well may have happened, I just think that it's slightly misconstrued.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

That is illegal in my state. Half hour before sunrise to half hour after sunset. Rise and set tables are provided by the game department.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

not cheating if you are just trying to get to your stand. just dont shoot them when you got the light on

RE: Is this cheating?
 

That is illegal in my state. Half hour before sunrise to half hour after sunset. Rise and set tables are provided by the game department.

I believe the times you have stated are shooting hours not the time you are allowed in the woods. For example if you are hunting yotes you can hunt and shoot all night here in Ohio.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

No, I was refering to deer hunting. I'm pretty sure the game department would see being in the stand with a weapon as hunting.

In VA there are a number of animals you can hunt at night just as you mentioned, but deer aren't one of them.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

Killer:

I'm not SURE.....but I "think" the times you speak of are recognized here, too. Thing is....I "think" that's for hunting, only. Im not "hunting" when I'm walking to my stand. I'm not even hunting when I get IN my stand.

We can't SHOOT until "first light" (here in NC). We can't shoot AFTER 30 minutes after sunset.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

try more like illegal in most states. its called shinning with a weapon, big time fine here in wi. also loss of license and hunting privlidges for up to 5 years

RE: Is this cheating?
 

Killer Primate I believe we are dealing with a part of the law that is not well defined. Lets see
1. You are allowed to walk in the woods at any time with your bow
2. You are NOT allowed to SHOOT deer outside of the allowed times set
3. When you are in the woods you can hunt yotes with a bow. Who isto say what you are hunting?

It all comes back to being a ethical hunter.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

I agree, but if we go back to the kids with the flash light for a moment and picture the same game rep finding you in the stand well before legal hours, you would be charged. Is it fair, probably not, but that is the way I understand it. I think being in full dress, in the woods, up in the stand with hunting gear; would be classified as hunting.