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Would you claim the Zaft buck?
With the question about when can you claim that you recovered a deer being posted there was some mention that some people thought this deer should not be entered in the P&Y because of the way it was recovered.
I was just wondering how many people (being put in the exact same situation) would not have entered this buck? How many think that P&Y should not have let him enter it even if he didn't want to? Like I said before I would have entered it in a heart beat. I am not trying to start any argument here just was curious who would pass up the money on thier morals? I posted a link to the Zaft buck story and i am sure there are others besides this one just search under Zaft buck. http://www.gameandfish.about.com/lib...azaft_main.htm " Anyone can be a father, but it takes a real man to be a Dad" |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
I am not sure that Wayne knew what he had when he shot it other than that it was a big animal. He did the ethical and logical thing and pursued the animal to the best of his ability and eventually did recover the deer, albeit with the help of the landowner. Would I have entered the deer in the P&Y books? Damn right I would have, and every other hunter would have also, if they had shot it. Wayne was within the regulations set out by P&Y and he deserves to be on top. As for making fistfuls of money from this animal, I am not sure that this is the case with Wayne. Speaking to the Alberta hunter that shot the potential WR NT Elk this fall, I have learned that many American Corperations do not want to support a Canadian hunter. The money is just not there for a Canadian hunter like it would be for an American hunter. Just my $0.02.
bag em' and tag em' www.bowzone.ca |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
Since I'm not a member of P&Y, not an expert on their rulings and decisions, and don't know all the facts of the hunt/recovery, I really don't have an opinion about Wayne Zaft's deer's acceptance or rejections from P&Y.
However, if I were in his shoes would I enter the animal? Assuming that his accounts of the situation are 100% factual (and I have no reason to doubt that they are) you bet I would! In a heart beat. JRW |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
I'll bite on this one. I cannot speak for Zaft, but, if it were me, no I would not put it into the book. Again, this is just my personal opinion and I would never criticize Zaft for entering it, but I would not enter it. Why? Because to me, the deer is a trophy. The meat, the antlers, ect. The whole deer. If I couldn't get the meat from the animal because I couldn't locate it, it would be tarnished. I'm sure people will say that it's easy to say I wouldn't enter it in the book if it never happened to me, but it has happened to me. I shot a monster with the muzzleloader a few years back but couldn't find him. A short time later someone else found him and told me about it. I didn't even get him mounted because to me the hunt is not about the kill, but about the scouting, the shot placement, and the recovery. I didn't recover, so it was tarnished.
Again, this is my opinion, and not a trashing of Zaft. |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
If things went down the way he said they did and it's all good with PY then yep, I surely would enter it.
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RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
Same, Same,...... JRW, Well put
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RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
I would have entered it.......TWICE <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>:)<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
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RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
Subsequent to reading most of the posts regarding the "Zaft" buck, including Zaft's article, the jury in my mind is in.
Where is the rule that says a recovery must be made only by the shooter? If that was true, then I suspect that many of us do not deserve credit for some of the kills and recoveries we have made when another party in our tracking group finds our deer before we do, or a landowner calls you the next day and tells you your deer is lying in his field. Take for instance the 8-pntr I have killed, so far, this season. While tracking the buck I shot, I was being assisted by a friend. My friend found my buck first. Should I get the credit for the kill? A few hours earlier, my nephew, our friend, and I were tracking the doe that my nephew had shot. I found the doe first. Should my nephew get the credit for the kill? Regarding Zaft's kill, it is the time spread, which was extremely minimal, which was the next day as I read and understand it, that is muddling up the thinking, and maybe (even) some jealousy. Zaft said he tried his best to find the buck on the day he shot the buck. He then went back to the area the next day and tried again. He was not able to find the deer and said "He headed home again." He did not say he conceded the loss and had given up the pursuit. He must have extended his tracking by informing people who lived near the kill area, because an adjacent landowner was obviously aware and notified Zaft about the buck lying in the field. When Zaft arrived, the buck was still on the ground where it was simply spotted by the landowner. Who is ready to say that your right to claim recovery is not valid if you, the shooter, do not find the deer first, and before the sun goes down? Regardless of time between shot and recovery, and who finds the deer, does corroborated evidence of whom made the kill establish ownership? Or, is it "Finder, keeper; looser, weeper?" The kill and the recovery were totally righteous, and Zaft is fully deserving of the credit and the honors that goes with the kill. PS: The only aspects of the "Zaft" story that surprised me was 1) that an experienced hunter as Zaft apparently is, held a belief that a wounded deer would go directly to cover and not cross a large open field to do so, and 2) relies only on blood trails to track. Too many hunters think like humans, not deer. Deer do not comprehend like we do. They do not think, "Oh hell, I have just been severely wounded by an arrow/bullet, I better take cover before I fall down!" Unless a deer is so severely wounded they began to loose strength rapidly or sense they are severely disabled, they may not go directly to cover. They may simply flee as they do when you (just)spook them. Ever had a severely hit deer jump and run a few yards, stand and look around or go back to eating, and then just fall over? Edited by - c903 on 12/05/2002 15:48:36 |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
I am guessing that SW Iowa Hunter posted this question after reading my comment about this deer on a recent thread.
There are many valid points already made here, which I must agree with. The only real issue I have with this situation is the fact tha Mr. Zaft took a marginal shot on the animal. He forced a bad situation. I feel I can honestly say that no human being alive today wants to shoot a MONSTER BUCK more than I do! That is why I spend my hard earned money to pursue them. I HAVE been offered a 15 yard shot at a typical buck that would score over 190"! The shot was head on, and I passed. It haunts me to this day! It always will. If I could turn back the clock, I would pass him again, under the same circumstances. By all accounts Wayne Zaft is a very knowledgable, and just plain GOOD deer hunter. I cannot understand why someone with his skills as a bowhunter would chance such a thing. Whether it was a potential record book buck, or a yearling doe. Did I ever push a shot that was not there? You bet, but I was way younger, with way less experience than I have now. The farmer who found Waynes buck was not helping him track it, he just knew that Zaft was looking for a big buck he hit. Maybe the kill should be considered legitimate, and I won`t develop an ulcer if it does take over the top spot. I just keep going back to the bad shot choice. And just for the record, I like to see records be broken. Hanson, and Beatty really made my day! Getting back to answering the original question... I can promise I would not have entered it, because I know in my heart that I would have passed on the shot. What if it was a good shot oportunity, and I made a less than perfect hit? Then the neighbor finds it for me, and gives it to me. Do I enter it? I plead the fifth!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> NRA,UBP,BASS Member New Stanton,PA |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
c903 Amen!!!!!!
I dont see where it was a bad situation, only made to be one, I feel he took the shot and really had the confidence that it was to be a good shot. It happened to not be quite as far as he originally thought, BTW that happens all the time, most misses are due to misjudged yardage. He made a shot, it is no lees his deer and no less a record for that. Just my opinion ofcourse. Hunting ; an act of love for nature guided by the strongest spiritual forces. http://www.adventuresoutdoors.freehomepage.com/  |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
Yes sir I would enter it. If Zaft's scenario played out with me, I'd be entering the buck tomorrow, no doubt in my mind. From what I've read Zaft did everything possible to retrieve his deer. If P&Y will allow it, I say enter it. If you don't like how the situation played out, blame P&Y. Just my 2 cents. Personally, I'm glad that he entered it because being the "offical" P&Y trophy that it is more people will be able to see it and enjoy an awesome whitetail.
-------------------------------------------- Hunting the Piney Woods of Deep East Texas. |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
The link you provided for the Zaft buck story revealed a different story than I read before. I had read before that several days had gone by before the farmer found a buck on his land.
I dont think anyone is saying that if the hunter who shot the animal doesn't find the animal...... When your buddies are helpling you track a wounded deer it's pretty obvious that the deer "your buddy" found is the deer you shot , by blood trail , warmth of the animal , a description of the buck beforehand , etc. All I'm saying is I believe the Zaft buck should go into the record books as a "find". They do have a category for that dont they? |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
BenfromVa
Amen, back at you. You took the words right out of my head. Wayne's shot was more marginal when he "Monday morning quarterbacked" his shot, then it actually was. The buck went down. Where is the written rule that says a shot must always be "picture perfect" to be taken and to be lethal. Nor is there a rule that says a deer must always be killed by a perfect release and a perfect shot to validate the kill. Such a rule, written or self-imposed, would be stretching ethics beyond practicality and reality, and would be amoral rather than moral. Edited by - c903 on 12/06/2002 00:17:40 |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
P&Y and B&C are the keepers of the record books. They set the standards for what is and is not a trophy correct? That makes them the referees. If they say it's a scorable rack, then it's all good. That's my opinion.
KEEP IT LEGAL. KEEP IT SAFE. OR WE MAY NOT GET TO KEEP IT AT ALL. |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
I have read about 6 or 7 different stories about this PICK UP all where sposed to be from Waynes comments and each one of them was a different story.
I have stated before it is a PICK UP and I have not read or seen anything as yet to change my mind. If it was me that PICKED IT UP then no I would not even think about entering it no matter how much money is involved my pride as a hunter is worth more than that.  Aussie by birth Texan by choice |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
It's no different than if you had your buddies helping you on a bloodtrail and one of them spotted the dead buck first. The shot could have been better but hey, it happens to the best of us. So it was hard to find and took him a few days, it's all gravey. Yes I would have entered it in pope and young. It was the bowhunter that killed the deer, so he harvested the deer legaly, and as ethicly as he could with ONE SHOT. Great job if you ask me. I wonder how old the buck was?
"Hey ya'll, watch this" |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
It's no different than if you had your buddies helping you on a bloodtrail and one of them spotted the dead buck first. The shot could have been better but hey, it happens to the best of us. So it was hard to find and took him a few days, it's all gravey. Yes I would have entered it in pope and young. It was the bowhunter that killed the deer, so he harvested the deer legaly, and as ethicly as he could with ONE SHOT. Great job if you ask me. I wonder how old the buck was? "Hey ya'll, watch this" <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> If your buddy follows a bloodtrail to your buck? Your buddy blindly stumbles across your buck , but it's still entact and the innards are still warm? Theres no difference? As for your statement "It was the bowhunter that killed the deer"<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle> The jury is still out on that one! There was no forensic evidence to prove the cause of death was anything other than predation! Lets try this scenario. You made a poor shot on the buck in question. The buck may have lived with adequate recovery time. But while trying to recover , a pack of coyotes ran it down and killed it for their consumption. Now , if you knew this to be the fact because farmer Jones told you he had seen the coyotes kill the buck , would you still claim it for the fame and fortune? Finally , if just one person would step forward to say that Zaft had described the buck perfectly to them before the farmer found it , all of my doubts on wether or not it should be in the books would be removed. Edited by - bowfanatic on 12/06/2002 00:08:33 Edited by - bowfanatic on 12/06/2002 00:20:03 |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
Whould I have entered it? NO! I shoot 80% let off. I would let every magazine KNOW that I shot the biggest deer with a bow....but to hell with P&Y.
Should Zaft have entered it? Hell yeah! |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Lets try this scenario. You made a poor shot on the buck in question. The buck may have lived with adequate recovery time. But while trying to recover , a pack of coyotes ran it down and killed it for their consumption. Now , if you knew this to be the fact because farmer Jones told you he had seen the coyotes kill the buck , would you still claim it for the fame and fortune?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Jeez, let us expand the what ifs! What if, while the buck was running across the open field, a wheel fell off a commercial aircraft flying overhead and hit the deer in the head and killed it? Would you still enter the deer? <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle> |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Jeez, let us expand the what ifs! What if, while the buck was running across the open field, a wheel fell off a commercial aircraft flying overhead and hit the deer in the head and killed it? Would you still enter the deer? <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle> <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> Without the farmer wittnessing it , it's a very possible scenario in Zafts case. If you dont want to answer the question thats fine , but dont litter the screen with your smart arse replies!:) |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
Your question should be rephrased. Should P&Y believe him? What if this buck was a roadkill and died in the field or naturally killed by predators? He walks up and makes the whole story up and gets the new record. I don't think so. That's the #1 problem I have with the whole thing. No hide, no meat, no proof of a legal bow hit (could've been rifle). All these questions = no record in my opinion. What exactly did the man have to check in at the check station other than skull and antlers? If you can't legally check the deer with all mandatory information how can it be legal for P&Y? Actually if the buck wasn't a new world bow record for him to pursue the recognition and fame he probably wouldn't have even tagged it. Just because you find merely a head doesn't necessarily mean he needed to tag it as a lawful kill. He could've kept on hunting to tag another even after finding this head.
Edited by - soonershooter on 12/06/2002 01:09:43 |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
A wheel fell off an aircraft! I like it! Next time I am in a debate and everyone doesn`t go with my thoughts, I`ll try that one.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
You have your opinion, other people have theirs. <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Where is the written rule that says a shot must always be "picture perfect" to be taken and to be lethal. Nor is there a rule that says a deer must always be killed by a perfect release and a perfect shot to validate the kill. Such a rule, written or self-imposed, would be stretching ethics beyond practicality and reality, and would be amoral rather than moral. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> I don`t think it is written anywhere, actually. <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Such a rule, written or self-imposed, would be stretching ethics beyond practicality and reality, and would be amoral rather than moral. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> You are joking, right? I mean, you aren`t implying it is acceptable to just bust an arrow through him, get a liver, or maybe one lung. He`ll go down sooner or later! We should be able to find him, with enough help, right? A liver, or one lung shots may happen once in a great while, but to even think that it is acceptable to purposely try for a shot like that because a better one is not available? Well that would fall under the category of your moral also...the other one/immoral! NRA,UBP,BASS Member New Stanton,PA |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
I guess the times really have changed.
When I read the accounts of this buck, I agree with Ausie that it would be a "find". It's hard to comprehend how the majority of responses find nothing wrong with the whole scenario, and can compare it with a buddy being the first to see your deer on a blood trail. Totally different to me at least. No meat recovered, not much hide, just antlers. That would make me sick because it would remind me of my personal failure. But then again, I hate trash talking and taunting in the NFL and College football, so I guess I'm just a dinosaur!<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle> Avoid the inevitable until it is absolutely unavoidable! |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
First of all I would have looked for that deer that night after waiting for it to bed down, and called in to work sick and looked the next day.
If a farmer in my area finds a dead monster buck, whats to stop me from saying yep, thats the one I 'let get away wounded the other day.' Where do you draw the line? If you see buzzards circling a field a couple days later is that a hunter kill or a pick up? There is no evidence that Zaft killed this buck. It could have been only wounded and the coyotes finished it off. It could have even been hit by a car. |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
SW Iowa Hunter - Theres two published stories to the Zaft hunt, with obviously contradicting details that were added and removed to sugar coat what happened. Big Buck Magazine ran a way different story than North American Whitetail did. The article you posted was out of the North American Whitetail article.
Your question was - would I have entered it ? Yes, I would have so I could try and make a bunch of money on it, just like Zaft did. I don't begrudge him that. P&Y can accept entries from anyone and anything I suppose, but it was their job to decide if it was an ethical kill that will be the next World Record and an icon to the sport of archery. P&Y failied in that and I will never be a part of them (unless I shoot a monster) because of that. Bottom line, Zaft took a rushed shot on a very fast moving deer and he got a bad hit. Poor shot, poor hit and he lost it. Happens to a lot of us. The only differnce is that a day later someone find a huge buck and Zaft says its the same one and claims it. Legally the guy who found it could have claimed it as a pickup, and no one could have proved it was there deer, and no one can prove it was the same that Zaft shot. Heck, no one can prove the arrow killed it - the coyotes very well might have. Stealthycat's Photo's |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
I posted this on the LW a while back and thanks to their great archive search engine I found it.
Here are the two stories as they are printed. I will paraphrase them to condense the and show the differences. <font color=red>North American Whitetail (NAW)</font id=red> issue came in Jan 2002, <font color=blue>Big Buck Magazine (BBM)</font id=blue> came out with their issue in May I believe (Spring issue) <font color=red>NAW - "Was this really happening ?(Zaft)An incredibly massive whitetail buck with a high tined rack was trotting my way. He was about 150 yards out and coming along the brush line I was in"</font id=red> <font color=blue>BBM " Then out of the corner of his eye he (Zaft)picked up movement. Peering up he glimpsed a massive buck lazily meandering towards him ..."</font id=blue> <font color=red>NAW " As the buck went behind some thick, leafy cover, I bounded about 15 yards forward and stopped, still standing, near a large broken-off poplar. I took several deep breaths, trying desperately to calm myself in the face of this shocking developement." </font id=red> <font color=blue>BBM " Instinctively, Wayne nocked an arrow and hunkered down in hopes of getting an up close and personal opportunity of a lifetime "</font id=blue> <font color=red>NAW " The buck was closing the distance and hardly breaking stride. In front of me I had a good opening for a shooting lane, one about 8 yards wide where I though the buck would enter. I estimated the distance to this point at 34 yards, well within my comfortable shooting range as an experienced 3-D tournament shooter and bowhunter." </font id=red> <font color=blue>BBM " Patiently watching the buck wander in his general direction, Wayne was granted a privilaged glimpse as the whitetail worked his rub line. The giant buck eventually leapt a barbed-wire fence and began to saunter away but still paralleling Waynes position. At one point the buck was 20 yards but didn't present any sort of ethical shot opportunity. ............ Continuing his vigil, Wayne waited patiently. Then it happened. Recognizing his small window of opportunity, Wayne drew his 67 pound compound bow and took aim. At just that moment the buck jumped the fence a second time. Then, just as the hooves hit the ground, Wayne zeroed his 30 yard pin on the massive ches, focused and released all in a matter of two seconds" </font id=blue> <font color=red>NAW " As the deer entered my shooting lane, I drew in one fluid motion and then grunted with my voice to stop him. He gave no reaction so I grunted again- this time somewhat louder. The buck slowed to a walk and he looked my way however he wasn't stopping and my shooting window was closing quickly. I had to take a shot NOW to have a good chance at a clean kill" " I saw my Carbon Express arrow strike the deer a bit high and far back. The Gametracker First Cut 125-grain broadhead passed completely through him." </font id=red> <font color=blue>BBM " Hitting the deer slightly back from the lungs, the buck lunged forward and raced away, with his head and belly to the ground.</font id=blue> <font color=red>NAW " The giant buck bounded away, I noticed no sign of a fatal hit. As I stood there, I was overwhelmed with anxiety as that sinking feeling of "a bad hit" flooded through me." " I chastised myself for misjudgint he distance (just under 30 yards instead of 34 yards) and hurrying the shot."</font id=red> <font color=blue>BBM (no mention of what Zaft thought of the hit) </font id=blue> <font color=red>NAW " I waited for probably the longest 40 minutes of my life all the while reliving the shot scenario and trying to convince myself that maybe the shot had been better than I envisioned" </font id=red> <font color=blue>BBM - "Then after 30 minutes, Wayne proceeded."</font id=blue> <font color=red>NAW " I could easily see where the deers cloven hooves had torn up ground, but I could find no blood. Finally, I found a couple of small droplets on some leaves but no more"</font id=red> <font color=blue>BBM " Confirming his suspicions, the blood (from the arrow) was darker than he'd hoped for, suggesting he'd hit the buck in the back half of the body. "he made the wise decision to wait and allow the buck to bed down and expire." </font id=blue> <font color=red>NAW " After losing the trail, I started making short loops through the trees. Soon night fell over the land and to me it felt like defeat" </font id=red> The rest of the story is pretty much the same. NAW makes it sound like Zaft heard the farmer had found a deer, BBM says Zaft asked the farmer. NAW was first person (Zaft) and BBM was retold. I can see huge differences in the story. I called Big Buck Magazine and told them my concern. I taled to Gary Donald and he said the story was written as Zaft told it. Why the discrepencies ? He didn't know. Ya'll tell me now, was the first stroy true or the second ? Did Zaft stay put or move ? Was the buck trotting or working a scrape line leisurley ? Was there a barb wire fence or not ? Did Zaft grunt at the deer or not ? Did it run off appearing hit (head down and belly low) or did he run off appearing unwounded ? Did Zaft find first blood or not ? Did he lose the trail first or decide to stop looking ?? I believe Zaft told the truth as it happend in the first telling, the NAW one. I think the second was worked up and published to candy coat and smooth over everyone because Zaft took a very hurried and poor shot at a fast moving deer that he hit poorly and lost. That seems like the truth to me. I think Zaft looked all day the next day (morning and evening anyway) and had given up for the most part. I think the farmer told someone that told someone and Zaft heard about and claimed his deer that way. I don't doubt it was Zaft's deer, I do think maybe the coyotes finished the deer off. Stealthycat's Photo's |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
ooops
Edited by - stealthycat on 12/06/2002 08:36:09 |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
My being in favor of Zaft and a recovery are mostly based on Zaft's acknowledged background. Unless someone can present contradicting information, Zaft seems to be accepted as a truthful and decent person. Granted, to be recognized as a world record holder, and to receive all the "bennies" that will go with the title, there is very strong motive to be otherwise.
If Zaft did not have the reputation that he does, I would probably go with the opposing views that are being posted. Although I am on the "pro" side, at this time, the "cons" are definitely not out in left field. I must admit, the arguments of how did the buck actually die are very good and merit consideration. I suspect that I may be giving Zaft a greater benefit of doubt than I should so that the wondrous buck is not subordinated to nothing more than a discovered heap of rotting flesh and a simple "find." |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
A 200 class typical was found in a field in my state. Apparently hit by a car.
Wait a minute I got that buck it was a marginal hit and I couldnt find it someone else found it a couple days later. Yea thats it. My buck. Also this great buck came straight in to Natty's secret homemade buck lure. Send me 20 dollars and I'll send you your 1 oz. bottle. |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
stealthycat
Having been associated with reporters and writers for many years, I can assure you that "creative writing, paraphrasing, and misquotes" are alive and well. Unless Zaft personally tells you what occurred, whether he tells you verbally on in writing, all verbal or written accounts given by others is "hearsay." Last night, two local TV stations gave contradicting weather reports. I will just have to wait to find out what the actual weather has to say. In other words; unless you actually hear it (account) coming from the horse's mouth, it (account) might be coming from the other end of the horse. |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
c903 - Gary Donald told me the story was written as Zaft told it. The NAW article was in first person.
Here is what I believe. Zaft allowed NAW to do an article. He told it like it was. Then he got bashed bigtime for taking a poor shot, not trailing it harder, losing it etc etc. The BBM article was written to sugar coat the story, to change it around enough to make it sound more ethical and believable that the deer was recovered not by a fluke of farmers luck but by searching for it. P&Y hadn't accepted the score at that time, I thnk he was worried that it'd find enough what ifs to decide against making it the new #1, the icon of archery. Guess it worked too, but P&Y took big hits for it. Stealthycat's Photo's |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
It is amazing and sad how we hunters love to eat our young. If you have strong convictions that lead you to believe that Zaft shouldn't enter his buck, fine. It just upsets me that <u>every single</u> time a world class buck is killed, the bashing by other hunters begins. Some stories are suspisious like Rompala, some stories wouldn't be looked at twice unless the deer was a record(Zaft's buck), when nothing in the story can be torn apart, lies are made up (Beatty buck). It really gets old to me.
I guess that I just try to treat people the way I like to be treated and I try to believe that all people are good and honest, until they prove themselves otherwise. I also like to put myself in other people's situation before I bash them about their "ethics" and why they took a shot etc. Just my 2 cents. -------------------------------------------- Hunting the Piney Woods of Deep East Texas. |
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RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
NO, it should only count as a "Pick Up". When found there was no recognizable proof it had even been shot. Just that it was dead. I don't care how truthful everyone thinks the guy is. It's a matter of a broken chain of events. Searched for and abandoned, someone else found "A" dead deer. He says it's the one he shot but the carcass is destroyed past the point of proving that. Sorry for him if it's the same one... but that's the way I see it.
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RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
Game, Set, Match thank you davidmil. This isn't about if Zaft is truthful. Many of you are interpreting this as bashing another hunter but it isn't. Lay off the judgments. This is about the authenticity and legitimacy of a potential world record and davidmil hits the nail on the head. Sorry for Zaft but it's undocumented as even being scratched with the broadhead and if P&Y admit it they're suckers for every shady story from now on.
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RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
Well sort of Nick Bales...we're not saying he doesn't have the right to claim the deer. After he claims it then let him go ahead and enter it to P&Y. I'm only saying P&Y should have more scruples about their admission policies that's all. They should hold to the highest standards on any record book animal but especially the potential new world record buck. There is not even the tiniest threshold of just the basic amount of evidence that this animal was harvested with a bow. P&Y should be beyond reproach concerning rules for entry no matter how truthful, reputable or likeable the archer may be.
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RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
He shot, he found it, end of story! Give him the record!!!
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RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
TxCowboy - Del Austin, Milo Hansen, James Jordan, the Johnson buck Ed Koberstein, the Adams buck ... the list goes on and on of huge bucks no one questions. Zafts is different and the reasons are obvious.
Michigan-Bow-Hunter - He did not find the deer, haven't you been listening ? He found it no more than I found it, a local farmer did. Becuase of that FACT your statment then would have to change and say not give it to him ?? Stealthycat's Photo's |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
I agree with TxCowboy. Almost without fail, when a potential record is downed, the doubts and negativity starts.
For the record....I am only mildly disgruntled over the Zaft buck, if he gets the status, which I think he will, good for him. Milo Hanson, and Mike Beatty were also doubted in the beginning(not by me)but were as pure as the driven snow. Mitch Rompola was doubted in the beginning. Once again, not by me. I figured it was jealousy by the mainstream hunting fraternity. I have obviously changed my mind since then. If P&Y, or anyone else ever accepted the Rompola buck, it would discredit every entry they ever made. Back to the Zaft buck. Wayne admitted taking a shot he was not thrilled about. OK, too late to take it back now. He did try to find it, albeit unsuccessfully. I have no problem with him going to work, then coming back to search further. Everyone does not have the luxury of telling work to kiss off until further notice. He did not find it himself, but it was found and given to him. I gave my opinion on this one, but it is not that far out to warrant me getting excited one way or the other.<img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle> NRA,UBP,BASS Member New Stanton,PA |
RE: Would you claim the Zaft buck?
One big difference between the Hanson, Beatty, Rompola, bucks and the Zaft buck. Those others had the entire carcass including the all important hide and meat to prove their bucks died as a result of their direct shots. No one is bashing Zaft as he certainly seems like a decent young man. This is just poor luck for him for not recovering enough evidence to prove a legal bow shot. What about the poor fella who currently holds the world record? What does P&Y tell him when they dump his buck to #2 in favor of a set of antlers with an unproven recovery? At least the current record holder showed up with an entire carcass. In due respect to the current world record and the integrity of P&Y it should be clear that there should never be a cloud of mystery looming over to cast a shadow on the Zaft buck.
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