What defines a great bowhunter??
 

I've just spent the greater part of two hours reading the individual chest thumping that went on in the, "little ones make big ones", thread. I do not want to reopen the question of QDM. My main issueis thatthe content of the threadimpliesoverwhelmingly, the notion that taking of deer that are older, (put your own reqs in here) have racks of (n) points or better or score (n) PY/BC points or more, makes you the taker amore accomplished hunter. The intent of this thread is to compare the hunting prowessimplied by certain indivduals in that thread based on deermaturity versus a few alternatives.

The first situation I'd like opinion on is based on an occurence in the Moose River drainage in the Adirondack Park of NYS. (Davidmil has mentioned the park in several notes but for clarity, one can travel for 60 miles on a single compass heading without hitting another road.) No crops, food plots, etc.. It was 1953 and a friend and I spent 10 days 14 miles from Eagle Bay hunting, without pulling the trigger. On our hike back to civilization we ran into a gentleman that, in our discourse, said he was 71. He had on his back a crotch horn. The a$$ was in an adirondack basket, (look it up) the hind legs wrapped around his waist, the forelegs over his shoulders and tied off to the hindlegs. The deers head was on top of his head and tied down with a piece of cloth. He walked out the last 7 miles without stopping. Question: Was he less of a hunter with his fork than others in this forum with their 140+ heads? Should he have held out for that, "mature", deer.

Now my turn. I have always been primarily a still hunter. Ground level, belly to belly with my quarry. I have tracked and stalked 5 bucks to their beds. Killed three, (2 with a recurve)missed one and had one walk off after a long wait because I couldn't get an arrow through. I have also passed opportunities on a large number of bedded does. The largest deer I have ever killed was a 10 point, maybe 3 1/2 but probably 2 1/2.Again with a recurve.

I'm trying hard to avoid the classic, "I walked 5 miles though the snow to school......", but it's hard to avoid. Most of my deer hunting life, I was allowed one (1) deer of either sex with a bow. I did not get an extra buck only tag during gun season. As a result, in order to make my season last as long as possible, I passed on does and small, (not immature) bucks. Nothing altruistic in terms of the herd, purely selfish. I wanted the seasonas long as possible for me. Besides, I'm not fond of venison..Question: Is my ability in question because I haven't killed a, MATURE buck. The thread in certainly seems to question my abilities, as well as the thousands of others who do not have the, "patience", to kill a deer of certain qualities.

So, to the heart of the matter....What makes a bowhunter a "great" or "notable" hunter. Is it the taking/killing of an animal of certain qualities, is it the methodology of the taking/kill or is it the quality of the hunt itself or tha intangible feelingof satisfaction that onehas at the end of the day, whether or not an animal was involved. For me, one ofmy most memorable days was that one in Moose Riverand I wasn't even hunting and making one a great bowhunter is recognizing those moments.

laxdad

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

I hope this thread stays civil, because it is a very good post.

To me, consistently making the best of the situation you are presented each year, defines a good hunter. Using or imposing more restictive methods to do so, adds to that accomplishment.

Otherwise trying to compare hunters who hunt vastly different areas and who set out with different goals is impossible, nor should it be a fair comparison to try.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

I think all of use probably know a "great" hunter or have a friend who is one. To me its a number of things, from knowledge of the game he's hunting (very important), apprectiation of the game, attention to detail, ethics, and success.

Success means different things to all of us and I'll try notget into a debate of that. I will only say that young bucksand does are easier to hunt and kill than mature bucks. Example: Put 10 hunters (doesnt matter whether theyre experienced or not) in the woods and tell them to shoot the first deer that walks by them. More times than not theyre all going to shoot a doe, fawn, or young buck, period.

You also mentioned hunting method, as long as its legal it has no bearing on whether youre a great hunter or not.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

Well said. What you do with what you have.

Is the guy who hunts pressured public ground, and maybe shoots something each year, less of a hunter than the guy 4 miles down the road, hunting 300 prime time acres by himself??? It's impossible to rate the skill of one hunter to the next just by the frequency of pretty pictures one may post on the internet.

I try to look at my own success as being proud of myself for what I did, not what I did and you didn't. I stay away from comparisons.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

This is true. People can't kill what isn't there. I keep trail cams up most all year.....and there's not a P&Y buck in my woods.

I'll say this logic is flawed if you're trying to draw ONLY the correlation that these deer are easier to kill because they're not as smart as other, MATURE deer. It's flawed because there's simply more OF the deer you reference.

Also....I had a "successful" year, this year. I had a "successful" year last year. They were two VASTLY different year sin terms of harvests, though. Next year I have COMPLETELY different goals.....so this year's "success" will be totally different than last.

As far as bucks go......People seem to somtimes forget that their harvests are in direct correlation to the area(s) they hunt. I killed the largest racked buck in my woods, last year. I can't do any better than that.

I'd like to think that being successful in my future (as far as deer hunting goes).....is being able to put myself into position to take the best deer in my woods MORE OFTEN.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

Ok I will chime in!!

Follows the games laws, he helps promote his sport to the youth and non-hunting public. Most important factor of all

He has fun and learns something neweverytime he goes out, even if he never shoots a deer.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

Jeff, you're right that there are less mature bucks in the woods than other deer. This reduces the odds of killing a mature buck, just on numbers alone. The fact that mature bucks are less active during daylightand less tolerant of pressure also reduces the odds of harvesting them. All of these factors come into play in harvesting a mature buck.(I am also aware of the region/area comparisons)

I would also like to comment on your statement of "I killed the largest racked buck in my woods, last year." How can you make that statement? Do you think that you have a trail cam photo of EVERY deerin your woods or those those thatpast through? I just find that very hard to believe.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

Disclaimer......whoa.....

I suppose I should say......I killed the largest one I either saw or had trail cam photos of. I've got a friend with cams, also.....and he didn't have a larger racked buck on his photos, either.

So.....that's what I meant. I hunted those woods 46 times....and had trail cams up from July through NOW. I haven't seen a larger RACKED buck in all that time afield or on camera.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

Germ.. You hit the nail on the head... one thing everyone has left out... FUN... That is the key to success.
Everyone stresses good points. Success vary's by indivdual goals & experience. I'm sure I would set different goals for myself if I lived / hunted the Midwest vs the "big woods" of New England. It is impossible to compare the 2 regions, types of hunting, andoverallquantitiy of game.
In my neck of the woods, you are considered a good bowhunter if you can consistantly kill a deer or 2 (buck or doe) with the bow... A buck and you are definately doing something right.
I try not to compare myself to others and rate my success based on accomplishing my own personal goals I have set. That is not to say that I question myself as a "good hunter" when I see others shooting big bucks...

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

Here is a very similarthreadfrom a while back. It is a good read if you are interested.

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1306700&mpage=1

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

Since the question was "What makes a great bowhunter" and not "what makes a bowhunter successful" I would say that the taking of animals has to be in the equation somewhere. I think a bowhunter can be successful without being great.

To be great, one would have to have intimate knowledge of the prey, and be able to apply that knowledge to overcome the games superior senses with the end result being the taking of the animal. One can be a great hunter without a record book animal, but I think they have to routinely take animals where others fail. The kind of hunter that makes others think they must be cheating to get the results they do... those are great bowhunters.

To be a successful bowhunter...well, those are the intangibles.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

Let me ask you though, huntingson......is Stan Potts great? Or....would you be equally as "great" if you were placed in the stands he is?He takes a lot of great animals.

Just a thought.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

I dont know if "fun" goes into the equation of being "great." Ihave lots of fun playing golf but, I am a far cry from being great.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

That person's ability to pass on his/her love of the art as well as the heritage of hunting.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

Golf and Bowhunting are two different beast IMO.

Some of my greatest hunts are the ones where I did not take an animal.

Golf has a defined standard rules and goal, bowhunting has standard set of rules, but one's goal will differ from another.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

All of the above; different strokes for different folks.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

I think the defined goal/obect of hunting would be to kill an animal. Why else would we bring a weapon and buy a permit to kill that animal. We can, as hunters, also set other goals during our hunts; such as seeing more deer, killing a big buck, making a clean kill, etc. These personal goals/objectives would be the intangibles that change from one to another.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

You know I guess that is why Bowhunting is so great, it does not have to be about the "kill" to me.

In 2002 I did not kill a buck, but I got close to the biggest one in our woods 3 times(I seen). I had my bow back once he just did not stop. I had a great season, and I hunted hard. Was I any less of hunter thanthis year in 2006? Because I shot the biggest deer in the woods(that I know), luck was on my side. If the tree would have not fallen over two days before who knows what I would have got him.

We put so much pressure on "killing a deer" we loose focus in really what make bowhunting great, and what makes a great bowhunter.

Respect for the woods
Respect for animal
Respect for his fellow Bowhunters.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

This comes up time and time again..and not to be rude, but Honestly, who cares!!

Do you guys sit up at night and wonder how I or Shed33 or Germ or HCH (sorry guys just grabbed a few names)view your hunting prowess?? It's a self gratifying sport. You are not being judged! Lax (for example) do you want us to tell you your great cuz you hiked back in some mountains??

I don't give a hoot..does that bother you??? It shouldn't! I'm no-one to you!

Get out of it what pleases you..pass on the important stuff to your kids or "student", companions etc.. The ones you teach and associate with,are the only ones you should care about. If you are taking the time to educate them..they'll think you are great no matter whats on the wall!

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

I think the most imortant aspect of the question is being overlooked.

When you ask "What defines a great bowhunter?", who are you suggestion would be doing the judging?

If you are setting your standards, based on the "collective opinion" of others, are you really getting the most enjoyment out of your hunting?

When you apply your standards to judge someone else, you may decide YOUR opinon of that person based on those standards, but you cannot change their standards, or make them any better or worse of a hunter unless they agree to your standards and adopt them for their own.

I decide what the criteria is for making a good hunt for me.I decide if I want to shoot a doe, or an inmature buck, and only I can decide if is a good thing for me or not.

Your standards of judgement may or may not include such things as "Maturity of the animal harvested", "Effort level required to complete the hunt", Time spent hunting", "Time spent preparing for the hunt", "Accuracy of the shot", "Making good decisions, to ensure clean shots and quickkills"or many other things.

For me, (and this is my personal standards), the greatest bowhunters are the ones that know what they want to hunt, spend the time to undertand their prey so they can effectively hunt that prey in the environment whereit lives, and don't get overly concerned about what others might think.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

I agree with huntingson, a great hunter kills animals. Anybody ever heard of a great hunter that didn't get anything?

To me, a great hunter consistantly kills animals that are the best in his or her hunting areas. He will also shoot does and try to keep the herd in balance. I also don't believe that passing on the sport to future generations is part of what makes a great hunter. That comes from being a great sportsman and a great person. I know a couple of great hunters that are almost complete hermits. They don't pass anything on to anybody, but they are still great hunters. Again, a great hunter is one who consistantly takes the best animals in their spot, where others fail in the same spots. One who stands above the rest.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

A great hunter is someone who knows there good but doesn't need to compare knowlege, equipmentor killsto fluffthere ego. A great hunter respects the sport and thanks god for his kill. A great hunter offers suggestions but doesn't get bent out of shape because someone disagrees with him. A great hunter enters the woods an hour before daylight, stays till dark, doesn't kill a deer and enjoys it just as muchas he would haveif he had taken the next world record. Everyone is so quick to talk about the number of deer they've killed or how big they are, who cares. I would like to kill a big deer, I'll work to do that, I will learn while trying to do that. If I don't who cares?, If I do, who cares? My children will be in the woods with me this year whille I'm trying to accomplish my goals, do you think I'll get one? Probably not, but guess what? I'll be with my children spending time with them and doing something I love to do. Years ago I used shoot 3D tournements and there was tons of pencil pushing ego throwing butt holes there. I let them ruin the sport of bow hunting and tournement shooting for me. Now I realize it's everywhere and I'm the bigger person for not being like that. Never again will childish people ruin my joys in life. Repect each other, nature and look out for the next generation. Hats off to lax dad for a great post.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

I have to agree with you Greg and huntingson. Well said.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

What makes a great hunter? .. in my own opinion..

A great hunter has dedication beyond those around him. He is successful not because he hunts great land, great state, or even kills with great regularity. He is great because he does not give up or give in. He continues to strive for a goal.. gets it... then continues to the next goal without blinking an eye. Constantly raising his own "bar" and excelerating to the next level.

He does not make excuses for what his land lacks. He makes results by hunting harder and smarter. Great hunters are made by their great accomplishments. Great hunters work harder than us all and make things happen. They pursue those great lands.. sometimes they get them... and sometimes they don't... but a great hunter does not give up.

I've learned one very important lesson in my life... to be great at whatever you do you must work at it. And work harder and smarter than those around you. Turn off the t.v. and the football game and get in the woods. Find the good land and work for the permission. Then work hard for the animal (whatever the size).

The great hunters don't give excuses.. eventually they give results. That is what makes a great hunter.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

Thank you, it was a good read. There've been some great posts and I think that there are many respondents that I'd enjoy hunting with and like always a couple that would be interesting but I wouldn't seek out.

The answer for everyone is the same. Each of us defines the greatest bowhunter, because the goals and motives that drive each of us are different. There is a follow on story to,"my walk in the mountains" and for those interested in why this old man is my nomination for the greatest bowhunter read on.

After hooking up and walking for a while the man with the deer on his head asked, "why the gun and the bow? I replied that I was trying to cover my bases because I wasn't confident in the big woods. If I got one close enough I'd take it with the bow if not, I'd use the rifle. He then offered that he preferred bow hunting but he needed winter meat. He then asked if I fly fished. I said yes and tied my own flies. He walked on and then said, in context, "if you want to be successful with the bow you have to commit to it, if you need meat take the rifle". He then asked if I could find and identify natural salt licks in the big woods. I said no and then he proceeded to tell me how. After a short quiet period he asked me how fast I moved while hunting. I replied, "one step forward, look around, count to three and take another step. He replied, "too fast. Take a step, search out as far as you can see in a 360* arc and then in to your feet, close your eyes, do it from your feet out to the limits then take another step". He then asked how I used the wind. Like allknowledgable hunters I said I kept it in my face. To which he replied, "no good! If you're moving at the right pace you will never catch up to a deer browsing in front of you. Hunt crosswind, that way a deer moving faster than you will have a chance to catch upand if you're moving at the right pace you'll have a chance to see him before he sees you". This ongoing tutorial lasted the entire three hour walk. The time flew and I was wishing it could go on and on. Finally I screwed up enough courage to ask him if I could go out with him some time. He gave me his name and phone # and told me to call him in early March and he'd take me out scouting for the upcoming season.

I called in March but he had passed just after Christmas. I had learned more from him in three hours than is possible to imagine. I often wonder what other lore he could have passed on to that 17 year old kid. Obviously, my own personal definition of a great bowhunter.......

I apologize forthe long boring post but I have been thinking of him lately..

laxdad

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

Well said and I couldn't agree more...

laxdad

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

Well I'll probably never be declared a great hunter. Why, because I really don't care if I am. I don't hunt for anyones acolades or kudos. I don't hunt for a "BOOK" buck. I don't measure them. I don't compare them. I shoot a lot of them, but I don't do it for any of the above reasons. I hunt for me. I do what gives me joy and pleasure. I do what is just my thing. I do it for the pure fun and enjoyment. The problem with hunting today is there are just too many people telling everyone else what they should and shouldn't do. I chose not to do that. It's suppose to be fun. I shoot some, I let some walk. I don't do any of it for anyone else. I'll never make it.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

like il coyotesaid hunt public or private land? i think it is a lot harder to hunt public land thats maybe 10 acres and kill a doe than kill a small buck on that 400 acres of food plots and hard woods but if the hunter kills a monster any were it's skill. education,ethic, and sportsmans ship and the will not to give up!

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

and respects

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

Sounds great to me............to many others I'm sure it doesn't......that is why there is no way to really answer this question. It's impossible to compare hunters from different towns........let alone states or regions. Every plot of land is different and many places don't even hunt in a similar manner........I mean, how do you compare someone sitting in a stand in the east with somone stalking the open plains out west? How do you compare people who hunt someplace like Florida with someone on the corn belt?? How do you even begin to equate hunting with 900,000 other hunters in the woods with places that have less then 20% of that pressure?? Some states have long gun seasons and some have short ones......some have VERY long bow seasons and some have just a few weeks. Some states have multiple buck tags and some can't even shoot certain bucks or have to tag a doe first. These and MANY more variables pretty much make any comparisons besides microanalysis meaningless.

Not even mentioning that everyone seems to be guilty of tunnel vision here and discussing whitetails only.........the question was bowhunter not deerhunter (funny how often people believe those are the same thing).

I also didn't see any mention of traditional gear.............now combine the two and it confounds things exponentially. Can we really compare someone who kills a grizzly bear face to face with traditional gear with a guy who kills a deer from 25 feet up a tree??

Land is ALWAYS the common denominator of success/"greatness"

In 2001 Maine, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Florida entered a total of 4 bucks into P+Y (1 each)..........Now contrast that with the 791 that were entered by hunters in Iowa, Illinois and Wisconsin (which had 358 alone) and it doesn't take long to figure out what the most important ingredient for success is........it would be quite foolish to believe their are no "great" bowhunters in the 4 states with 1 each........and even more absurd to think that coincidentally the vast majority of "great" hunters just happen to live in the midwest along the corn belt.


Unless you have had success in MANY different environments, taking MANY different animals with traditional gear part of that equation...........it would be hard to apply the label of "great bowhunter" IMO.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

I like dukemichaels definition,it speaks to taking responsibility for your own results.
Any definition of greatness has to include some basis of measurement,the question wasn't what makes a great bowhunting ambassador,it was what makes a great bowhunter.
You can be a great hunter and be a miserable sob.The hunters I most respect are the ones for whom the entire experience comes from passion,and the ones who consistently kill the most challenging animals in their area.In addition to that if they are generous with their time and experience they are just that much more respected!

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

What if they are just laying spikers down left and right? I mean button bucks layed out like followers at a Jim Jones revival. Wouldn't that prove greatness?

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

David .... I'm with you, Germ, and GMATT on this one. It's all relative. It's personal. Each person's life is intertwined with their bowhunting passion. Each of our lives, areas to hunt, time to hunt, and the priority we give hunting in it ..... is personal.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

attitude and sportsmanship are what make a good hunter.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

And really, what in the world does sportsmanship have to do with bowhunting. We're not competing with anyone, not part of a team... we hunt for ourselves. We can be law abiding... but sportsmanship?????

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

It could...........depends on the setting.........for a meat hunter, someone donating to shelters or someone who doesn't give a hoot about antlers I would say that sounds pretty great.

Rack size is your criteria for being a "great" hunter??

Who is Jim Jones?

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

Following this line of thinking.....I could reach "greatness" status this year....because my herd's numbers are out of whack.....and I'm gonna be laying down a bunch of does. I'll even be donating a lot of the meat.

Chris....you can call me "Jonestown Jeff"......and I'll think about you when the spikes and does start parading by on the way to the kool-ai......I mean....acorns.;)

How many do I have to shoot to be great, this year....lol?

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

Jim Jones, the son of a Klansman, considered himself the reincarnation of both Jesus and Lenin.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

Yeah....he herded up a bunch of spikes and does and made them eat mildewed corn because he heard the QDM guys were gonna expose him for thefawn spooner he was.

Rumor has it he was dealing in crossbows, too.

RE: What defines a great bowhunter??
 

I dont think there really is a way to define a great bowhunter. I would by how the person is and like how there life was and everything they went throught. Like fred bear,everyone knows his name and has books about him. He is a great bow hunter and no one will every compare to him.