I've just spent the greater part of two hours reading the individual chest thumping that went on in the, "little ones make big ones", thread. I do not want to reopen the question of QDM. My main issueis thatthe content of the threadimpliesoverwhelmingly, the notion that taking of deer that are older, (put your own reqs in here) have racks of (n) points or better or score (n) PY/BC points or more, makes you the taker amore accomplished hunter. The intent of this thread is to compare the hunting prowessimplied by certain indivduals in that thread based on deermaturity versus a few alternatives.

The first situation I'd like opinion on is based on an occurence in the Moose River drainage in the Adirondack Park of NYS. (Davidmil has mentioned the park in several notes but for clarity, one can travel for 60 miles on a single compass heading without hitting another road.) No crops, food plots, etc.. It was 1953 and a friend and I spent 10 days 14 miles from Eagle Bay hunting, without pulling the trigger. On our hike back to civilization we ran into a gentleman that, in our discourse, said he was 71. He had on his back a crotch horn. The a$$ was in an adirondack basket, (look it up) the hind legs wrapped around his waist, the forelegs over his shoulders and tied off to the hindlegs. The deers head was on top of his head and tied down with a piece of cloth. He walked out the last 7 miles without stopping. Question: Was he less of a hunter with his fork than others in this forum with their 140+ heads? Should he have held out for that, "mature", deer.

Now my turn. I have always been primarily a still hunter. Ground level, belly to belly with my quarry. I have tracked and stalked 5 bucks to their beds. Killed three, (2 with a recurve)missed one and had one walk off after a long wait because I couldn't get an arrow through. I have also passed opportunities on a large number of bedded does. The largest deer I have ever killed was a 10 point, maybe 3 1/2 but probably 2 1/2.Again with a recurve.

I'm trying hard to avoid the classic, "I walked 5 miles though the snow to school......", but it's hard to avoid. Most of my deer hunting life, I was allowed one (1) deer of either sex with a bow. I did not get an extra buck only tag during gun season. As a result, in order to make my season last as long as possible, I passed on does and small, (not immature) bucks. Nothing altruistic in terms of the herd, purely selfish. I wanted the seasonas long as possible for me. Besides, I'm not fond of venison..Question: Is my ability in question because I haven't killed a, MATURE buck. The thread in certainly seems to question my abilities, as well as the thousands of others who do not have the, "patience", to kill a deer of certain qualities.

So, to the heart of the matter....What makes a bowhunter a "great" or "notable" hunter. Is it the taking/killing of an animal of certain qualities, is it the methodology of the taking/kill or is it the quality of the hunt itself or tha intangible feelingof satisfaction that onehas at the end of the day, whether or not an animal was involved. For me, one ofmy most memorable days was that one in Moose Riverand I wasn't even hunting and making one a great bowhunter is recognizing those moments.

laxdad

I hope this thread stays civil, because it is a very good post.

To me, consistently making the best of the situation you are presented each year, defines a good hunter. Using or imposing more restictive methods to do so, adds to that accomplishment.

Otherwise trying to compare hunters who hunt vastly different areas and who set out with different goals is impossible, nor should it be a fair comparison to try.

I think all of use probably know a "great" hunter or have a friend who is one. To me its a number of things, from knowledge of the game he's hunting (very important), apprectiation of the game, attention to detail, ethics, and success.

Success means different things to all of us and I'll try notget into a debate of that. I will only say that young bucksand does are easier to hunt and kill than mature bucks. Example: Put 10 hunters (doesnt matter whether theyre experienced or not) in the woods and tell them to shoot the first deer that walks by them. More times than not theyre all going to shoot a doe, fawn, or young buck, period.

You also mentioned hunting method, as long as its legal it has no bearing on whether youre a great hunter or not.

Well said. What you do with what you have.

Is the guy who hunts pressured public ground, and maybe shoots something each year, less of a hunter than the guy 4 miles down the road, hunting 300 prime time acres by himself??? It's impossible to rate the skill of one hunter to the next just by the frequency of pretty pictures one may post on the internet.

I try to look at my own success as being proud of myself for what I did, not what I did and you didn't. I stay away from comparisons.

This is true. People can't kill what isn't there. I keep trail cams up most all year.....and there's not a P&Y buck in my woods.

I'll say this logic is flawed if you're trying to draw ONLY the correlation that these deer are easier to kill because they're not as smart as other, MATURE deer. It's flawed because there's simply more OF the deer you reference.

Also....I had a "successful" year, this year. I had a "successful" year last year. They were two VASTLY different year sin terms of harvests, though. Next year I have COMPLETELY different goals.....so this year's "success" will be totally different than last.

As far as bucks go......People seem to somtimes forget that their harvests are in direct correlation to the area(s) they hunt. I killed the largest racked buck in my woods, last year. I can't do any better than that.

I'd like to think that being successful in my future (as far as deer hunting goes).....is being able to put myself into position to take the best deer in my woods MORE OFTEN.

Ok I will chime in!!

Follows the games laws, he helps promote his sport to the youth and non-hunting public. Most important factor of all

He has fun and learns something neweverytime he goes out, even if he never shoots a deer.

Jeff, you're right that there are less mature bucks in the woods than other deer. This reduces the odds of killing a mature buck, just on numbers alone. The fact that mature bucks are less active during daylightand less tolerant of pressure also reduces the odds of harvesting them. All of these factors come into play in harvesting a mature buck.(I am also aware of the region/area comparisons)

I would also like to comment on your statement of "I killed the largest racked buck in my woods, last year." How can you make that statement? Do you think that you have a trail cam photo of EVERY deerin your woods or those those thatpast through? I just find that very hard to believe.

Disclaimer......whoa.....

I suppose I should say......I killed the largest one I either saw or had trail cam photos of. I've got a friend with cams, also.....and he didn't have a larger racked buck on his photos, either.

So.....that's what I meant. I hunted those woods 46 times....and had trail cams up from July through NOW. I haven't seen a larger RACKED buck in all that time afield or on camera.

Germ.. You hit the nail on the head... one thing everyone has left out... FUN... That is the key to success.
Everyone stresses good points. Success vary's by indivdual goals & experience. I'm sure I would set different goals for myself if I lived / hunted the Midwest vs the "big woods" of New England. It is impossible to compare the 2 regions, types of hunting, andoverallquantitiy of game.
In my neck of the woods, you are considered a good bowhunter if you can consistantly kill a deer or 2 (buck or doe) with the bow... A buck and you are definately doing something right.
I try not to compare myself to others and rate my success based on accomplishing my own personal goals I have set. That is not to say that I question myself as a "good hunter" when I see others shooting big bucks...

Here is a very similarthreadfrom a while back. It is a good read if you are interested.

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1306700&mpage=1