Predator answer for Davidmil
 

Hey David,

Sorry for missing your question...

As far as the Predator patterns go, I really like the Fall Gray -- but, then again, I do 99.9% of my hunting from 20' up with the sky as my background as the deer look up.

I do realize it contains some large white blotches in it that may make some people uncomfortable wearing it to hunt from the ground, but to me that's more of a perceived worry than an actual one -- unless you're trying to hide from other human passersby, orlike Rob has pointed out, are worried about wearing something white in the woods during turkey season.

Aside from those two reasons, the Fall Gray actually looks darn good on the ground too... Here's a picture one of our members got after accidentally tripping his trail cam while walking by. He's wearing Fall Gray:



You can see how the large, contrasting "blocks" help to erase his outline, even on the ground. Remember too that I'm evaluating this stuff from all the evidence of how we think a whitetail sees in its world, based on the data we've collected so far.

Obviously, I think where Fall Gray REALLY comes into its own at is in the treetops; I'm just saying up above that it's not horrible even on the ground. As a matter of fact, I've relayed the story before, but I was able to stalk up to a family of four coyotes on the ground in similar-looking woods that are pictured up above, and got to within 20 yards before misjudging the shot. (I was on my hands and knees and not used to mentally ranging from that position; shaved the back hair off one of them.)

NOW, having said all that... :)

I do see why some people who aren't taking into account that our best guesses show whitetails seeing the world in a dichromatic view at best and in a black and white world at worst can be somewhat leery of the Fall Gray... For those people, I'd probably recommend Deception -- but only if you got to sort through the clothing items you were about to purchase by hand. I've seen some Deception that I thought was tremendous (Hardcorehunter's top, for instance), yet our local store has some brown Deception hanging in it that doesn't offer much contrast between the light and dark blotches; it's pretty much all dark brown.

A very good compromise is to contact Jeff Aulik at www.graywolfwoolens.com and order his Fall Gray in Wolfskin. If you get it unlined (you can always wear insulated underwear beneath it), it's not that unreasonable considering the qualities of the fabric (colorfast, near-waterproof, etc.). Jeff's Fall Gray is actually a good compromise between FG and the old Fall Brown. The base color is not as white, but more of a light tan -- but not as dark as ASAT's tan base.

Hope that helps David.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

Greg, that's a cool pattern, but it doesn't look to have much contrast?? Are the "sticks and limbs" as narrow as they appear? Forgive my ignorance, I've never used it, or seen it first hand, actually. I mean, it has different color segments, one of which is white so I could see why you like it for treestand use, but there just doesn't appear to be much contrast in it.....Maybe it's just the picture.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

Say Greg, Rob,and others; what is the difference between wolfskin and bucksuede? I bought Hoytgirl a predator deception unlined archers jacket at Sportsman's warehouse last weekend for $56 and wecan't tell anydifference in feel, looks of the material, quietness, than my $80wolfskin unlined enigma coat. Both are whisper quiet, quiet and flexible in the cold,and both claim water repellency.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

OFF TOPIC! LMAO!! Sorry, couldn't resist.....:D:D:D:D

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

Mobow, that's the same Fall Gray you've seen me talk about before... Maybe the way the sun reflects off the shirt is what you're seeing? This pic provides a pretty good look at the pattern and its contrasting blocks I referred to up above, and gives you a sense of scale as to how big the overlaying sticks and limbs are, to answer your question:



Another shot of the Fall Gray, and its contrast:



I threw this one in for those who've never seen the old Fall Brown stuff; I've got Fall Gray pants on and a FB shirt on. Notice the base color,which is tan as opposed to the base on the pants being more "whitish".



Again, showing some of the different patterns for those who've never seen... This is Spring Green:

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

LMAO!! Not off topic,I am talking about predator.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

That camo looks kickbutt. BTW; nice pics.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

HCH, can you post a picture of the Deception buckskin clothing you bought your wife? Just wanted to see something other than what is shown on the website. No Predator dealers anywhere near me and no stores/shops carry any. MY old bow shop has not carried Predator clothing in years.[:o]

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

Oh yeah, those are better. I personally like the green best, but that's just me. I don't know though.....there's something about it....it's too.......segmented?? It doesn't blur out if you will......Don't know exactly how to explain it....But it obviously works....;)

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

HCH, I too own both Wolfskin and Bucksuede... Your findings are a little different than with the materials I personally own.

My wolfskin is a LOT more supple and flexible in all weather conditions, while my bucksuede tends to be "stiffer"... The wolfskin is probably more water-repellant than my bucksuede too, but the bucksuede's certainly not what I'd call "absorbent" like cotton, either. I'd give the "quiet' edge to the wolfskin sa well -- though obviously, the wolfskin's a good bit pricier.

Without going and quoting all the technica specs, those are my personal findings...

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

Greg, since you brought up the Spring Green.......thats a sleeper IMO. I've had my set for at least 10 years or whenever Predator came out with it. Very good for Spring and I've worn it more than any other set of clothing in deer season, so much that I had to trash them. Heck the leaves don't fall off here until mid-November it seems.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

mobow, I know exactly what you mean by the "segmented" look... That's actually what I personally find appealing in these patterns... what I call the "older" Predator patterns (Fall Brown, Fall Gray and Spring Green).

Deception was a decided attempt to "soften" those edges like you were talking about, but in doing so -- I think -- they lost some of the contrast. I guess I prefer that segmented look because if you stare up at a tree or really just generally out into the woods, it's all made up of segmentations -- sharp lines and little segmented blocks of grayscale color (at least in the fall woods. It'd be segmented blocks of shades of other colors in the spring or summer...)

You can kind of see what I'm talking about by looking at this guy's surroundings... Sharp lines, with irregular patches of lighter and darker patches around. That's what I think makes his camo blend in with that surrounding so well.



See all those light-colored "segments" of sky behind the myriad of tree limbs out in front of the guy in the stand? There's definitely no soft edges... tree limbs, vines and trunks all have decidedly "sharp" edges by design, if that makes sense.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

Correct me if I ma wrong Greg, but I think BuckSuede gets stiff and noisy below freezing. I had a set this awhile back.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

Here ya go CM. This is taken just now on a cloudy day. 15' up.


Up close





This stuff is hard to come by here in central IA and sportsmans is the only place we can get it. We were lucky to find this medium mens for her. It is way too big on her but she will make do; the stores don't carry anything for women hunters. Sportsmans has a small selection of predator here, a little bit of buckskin tops and bottoms, cotton poly tees, and bdu pants. Nothing in warm weather predator.I am impressed so much with this coat that I am going to get one for myself with a gift cert the inlaws gave me.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

Coug... You're right. I really like Spring Green as well, and was still wearing it when Matt got out here in early November. He was surprised to see me put it on the first day of our hunt. But, to your point, we still had a bunch of leaves on the trees then, and I was blending in with those -- not because I think the SG's colors matter to a deer (they all look the same when viewed in B&W), but because we were hunting public land and I like to hide from other humans and keep them from discovering my stand locations... I actually did have two hunters walk right under me that week, and I had to whistle at them to stop them from going upwind of me, but I think I was in FG by that time...


Germ... Yep. I wouldn't swear that bucksuede is layers of fabric with glue holding them together, but that's generally what makes a fabric want to stiffen up in the cold (the glue getting stiff and losing its elasticisity), but you're right -- it definitely gets stiffer the colder it gets. I've got a Fall Gray bucksuede jacket and a Spring Green bucksuede jacket, and use them more as windbreakers and to ward off slight drizzles...

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

True, but there are so many of them they all run together, blurring out...

LOL.....How obvious it has become that Camo designs are designed to our liking.....You like the segmented look, I don't.....I prefer softer edges w/ contrast.....I think you can achieve good contrast by not having sharp edges as well...the change is just more ........abrupt.

At any rate, it's a good pattern, and it obviously works well. It's a good thing there are so many options in patterns available.......If there were only one, what would we do then??? [&:]:D I'm out....

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

Maybe this bucksuede we have is a rarety in this coat. Come to think of it; I have seen their predator pants in buckskin at sportsmans and if I remember right they were a little heavier mil than this coat. This is a very lightweight unlined jacket.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

mobow... you're right; we've all got our own preferences. Nothing wrong with that a bit. :)

HCH... that's a good-looking jacket: kind of a mixture of what mobow and I were talking about... some hard edges, while others are softer. The thing that makes it look good to me isn't necessarily the "edges' but the fact that parts of it are really light-colored, while others are really dark-colored. That's what I mean when I refer to as contrast. The changes don't have to be abrupt, but there MUST be changes for it to be contrasting.

I think it's a t-shirt you've got on in your turkey-kill pic that looks good, too. Quality control must be getting better on that pattern, or either my local shop owner just got some bum patterns (to me) as an isolated event.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

I got that turkey/ deer shot camo pic you talk of at sportsman also this year.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

HCH your ? about price I would answer this way.

Not just the material causes things to be more expesive.With most clothes being made in China cost is way lower then made here or Canada. Cost on your jacketright around 20.00 dollars. Most of the clothes at Cabelas are marked up a ton from what cost is set. The reason I have so many outfits is because I used to get them at cost. Ibought the sameoutfit you bought hoytgirl in Bucksuede(had a different name) for 35.00 dollars pants and coat. I bought many outfits at pricethat were just unbelieveable.

THe quality isnot the same as garments made here or in Canada. My Dad just bought American made Harley, he could have got a Honda for about 4000 less.

I think you said it best when I was askingabouta blind. Buy it right once!! The bucksuedejacket will last a life time, mine is 6 years old now. Any outfit I have bought does not even come close to RavenWear I have. Ravenwearis extremely expensive, but it is custom made. Yes I have order a suit from Chuck, becasue I trust Rob 100% as I do you and Greg, and GregH any many others. I will have some predator very soon. As soon as I can find some in Wolfskin or a high quality fleece.

Germ

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

Sounds good Germ; We haven't had real cold weather to try this bucksuede out in; has only been in the 30's and that isn't a cold weather assessment for sure. I had better just stick with the predator in wolfskin through gray wolf woolens. I plan on checking out enigmas new pattern that Rob has told us about that will be coming out too. I hope it isn't as green in the background as it is now.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

HCH they changed the name of Bucksuede, anybody remember what it use to be called? Changed the name because of the cold weather issue. Cabela's almost got the patton on the stuff.

My youth hunters use mine, they never hunt in the cold, LOL

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

The tag said Buckskin on Sarahs' coat.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

Yes I know, few years back it was called something else. Nice coat, I don't know if you notice but skyline had horizon fleece suit on sale for 80.00 bucks. All they have left is Mediums. Insulated also!!!

I got it SADDLE CLOTH is the material I was thinking about.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

Thanks for the info Germ ;wife says a small is all that would maybe work in a suit. We are going to go through gray wolf woolens for her as she really likes the predator, the wolfskin, and they actually custom make clothes. The industry just doesn't carry clothing for women hunters in the stores. She usually looks in the kids section and the selection sucks.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

Germ, this is sorta off-topic but since it's my thread, I guess I can go there... [8D](I just don't want it to turn into any kind of camo pattern comparison thing at all... We've all been there, done that ;))

Did Cabela's have their newer Silent Weave fabric out when you worked there? I'm kind of interested in seeing/hearing about that fabric's characteristics and/or qualities... It's the only major fabric available I know of which I don't own Predator in yet.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

HCH, I can really vouch for Jeff's personal touch if you've never worked with him before; he can truly produce a custom outfit for you guys that I'm sure Sarah will be happy with.

I'd like to see if he can do that armguard-thingy that Chuck did with his Enigma shirts; I thought that was an extremely nice touch.

Also... I've mentioned it earlier, but Jeff's Fall Gray is sort ofa cross between FG and Fall Brown... It's a very nice pattern, actually.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

Greg let me make a phone call on Tuesday to the buyer he is a good friend. I can get the info you need.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

Yes me too; inquiring minds want to know. BTW; Here are pics of the gray wolf woolens predator. This is amazing looking quality camo and I will definately be ordering from these guys for my wife and I. Halfway down this thread are pics of the clothing. Like the thread starter stated on that forum; he wishes he had just bought gray wolf woolens to begin with. Obviously from others on this forum, AT, and IA whitetail this is a great product. I have never heard anything negative about gray wolf or the wolfskin fabric. Predator is our favorite camo so we might as well get it over with. I liken this to a double bull blind; high quality and higher priced; but will last for years. I have a basement full of camo and I could do with out half of it. Hey; enough rambling from me. Happy New Year!!!!
http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=140463&page=0&amp ;view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#Post17 6782

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

Greg, I've owned Silent Weave, and it's decent stuff. It's quiet and soft...BUT, it has zero water repellancy, which is it's big downfall.....BUT, for less expensive camo, it's a good deal.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

Thanks, mobow... that's about what I expected.

HCH, I saw your post on that forum; what's pictured there is Fall Gray. I've got an outfit exactly like that.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

I will speak up for Grey Wolf Woolens. I have a complete set from him thats in its second season. Its the Wolfskin fabric and I assure you that you will not find a better fabric out there. Jeff is also a great person to deal with and will answer any questions you might have.

As for Predator. IMO, its simply the best pattern out there. I particularly use Fall Brown. I think its the best of both worlds. Hides you equally well on the ground and in the tree. Since I started using Predator, I have not been seen in the tree from deer. I've had a few look up at me, mostly because of my dumb moves, but they can never figure out what I was. Any Predator pattern will do.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

Bump for David; I see he's on now...

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

Thanks Greg... I saw it when I got back to Atlanta from Americus. Before I got a chance to reply I got spirited away by number one son. Anyway, thanks for the info. I'm with you. I worry more about what I look like 20 feet up than at ground level. Put my 220 pounds hanging on the side of tree and it's hard to break the outline. LOL I think this will be my next camo. I think they have a booth in Harrisburg every year. I'll see if they have any show specials. Only because I got to walk out of there with something.[8D] Last two time I went I left empty handed except for a few diaphram turkey calls. It would also give me a chance to see this wolfskin material.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

Greg, I've been brousing Grey Wolf's website. Have you used or seen any of their wool stuff. I'm almost thinking of buying a wool outfit first. We normally have some decidedly chilly days in the Adirondacks. This Wolfskin everyone talks about, what exactly does it feel like. Is it really water repellant or just water resistant. I mean, it's not sure enough "Shower Proof" is it? AND, if it is, does it really breath like for warmer temperatures. I just got this thing for a nice wool outfit. I own two light to mid weight ones but not in an open pattern. I hope they show up in Harrisburg this year with all their stuff to look at. After looking the site over I realize it won't be cheap, but they offer a lot of nifty things as custom touches, like double seat and knees, grunt tube pockets etc.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

dave, the wolfskin in not "shower proof." It's great for mist, snow, or just a light rain, but if you set in "the rain" yer gonna get all wet.

It is however, quite breatheable. I wore it this year on some pretty hot days and was relatively comfortable. I wore a light pair of warm weather "long johns" under them (no, not blue....:D) and that helped keep me cooler. It's not bad for warm weather.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

David, I've got a 100% wool bomber jacket in Fall Gray... it's VERY warm, and I only wear it on days the temps are well into freezing. Obviously, it's super quiet. It's just a tad bulky for drawing my bow, but plenty workable.

The Wolfskin sorta feels like a mixture between a chamois material and cotton, and it's about as close to being waterproof as you can get without being so. The stuff almost comes out dry after the spin cycle when you wash it. It would take a pretty good extended shower to get youwet, that's for sure.

I don't think it's the most breathable stuff out there; when temps get that high, I'd prefer to wear basic cotton.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

Here are pics that the admin on IA whitetail posted and here is his description of the clothing from Gray Wolf directed at me:

Don,
It is Predator fall gray.

I got the wolf skin pants with the confort max (wind stop) liner.

Then I chose the following options:
double knee
cargo pockets
bow pocket
leg zippers.

The jacket is the wolf skin jacket with comfort max.

with the following options
33 inch zipper
grunt tube pocket
sleeve adjusters
upper cargo pockets
back cargo pocket
waist draw cord
detachable hood

Great stuff and Jeff is a great guy to work with! Let me know if you have any other questions or would like to see any more pictures.

It is extremely quiet and won't get loud when it gets cold.

There is the unlined, comfortmax lined and comfortmax with lite loft (which is warmer than thinsulate). If you are going to layer under it you would probably want to go with the comfortmax liner or the unlined. I do not have the liteloft but have heard from others that it is too warm for most conditions around here and if it keeps up we may be hunting in shirt sleeves soon...

If you are going to order I would call soon and see if you can still get the 2006 prices because they are going up. I would be though if you call soon enough you would be in good shape.

I am ordering a pullover and another set of unlined pants for turkey hunting this year.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

The quality of the clothing looks amazing and the features available are like no others I have seen offered. Wolfskin is awesome material Dave and I would go with it over wool myself.

RE: Predator answer for Davidmil
 

It does look like very high quality.