Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
12-22-2006, 04:19 PM
#81
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 286
RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
Rob, after getting very few pass thru's and many times no exit hole at all on deer for years I decided to try something different last year. I went to a heavier arrow and changed my expandables out for fixed blade broadheads. This helped tremendously on my setup. I have shot 7 deer in the last two years and 5 of them were complete pass thru.
So what? well check out these wimpy stats on my setup.
I was using my old Darton Rampage and a Maverick on those seven deer set at 58 lbs at 28" draw length. My arrows are CE Terminator 60/75 with 100 grain slick tricks weighing in at 460 grains and travel at the amazingly slow speed of 230 fps. I believe the KE figured up to be 55 lbs.
So I'm scrathing my head as to why your setups haven't had better penetration results. I personally think the fixed blade heads helped me the most. But I also will stay with the heavier arrow for its momentum, which is completely different than KE.
Arthur P, I like that bowling ball, ping pong ball comparison.
So what? well check out these wimpy stats on my setup.
I was using my old Darton Rampage and a Maverick on those seven deer set at 58 lbs at 28" draw length. My arrows are CE Terminator 60/75 with 100 grain slick tricks weighing in at 460 grains and travel at the amazingly slow speed of 230 fps. I believe the KE figured up to be 55 lbs.
So I'm scrathing my head as to why your setups haven't had better penetration results. I personally think the fixed blade heads helped me the most. But I also will stay with the heavier arrow for its momentum, which is completely different than KE.
Arthur P, I like that bowling ball, ping pong ball comparison.
12-22-2006, 04:21 PM
#83
Site Bouncer
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,099
RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer
Nope, BigJ, once open they are as smooth as any 2 blade broadhead on the market which brings up another point, 2 blades penetrating better than 3 blades etc....
I'll just have to take one with Muzzy's next fall just to see. I had both in my quiver this year but of course too, I'm shooting a faster more KE setup and the only deer I shot with it this year I spined......not a good example. [&:]
Nope, BigJ, once open they are as smooth as any 2 blade broadhead on the market which brings up another point, 2 blades penetrating better than 3 blades etc....
I'll just have to take one with Muzzy's next fall just to see. I had both in my quiver this year but of course too, I'm shooting a faster more KE setup and the only deer I shot with it this year I spined......not a good example. [&:]
12-22-2006, 04:24 PM
#84
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location:
Posts: 13,082
RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
Arthur P, I like that bowling ball, ping pong ball comparison.
There just isn't much weight difference between 400 and 500 grains...Enough to change things? Certainly. As much as a bowling ball and ping pong ball? No way. I understand the point though, but there's just too big a difference for it to be relevant. We're only talking totals of like 2-5 foot pounds of KE here.......I'm still going w/ lighter/faster.
12-22-2006, 04:28 PM
#85
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
ORIGINAL: BigJ12
I was just grasping at straws...I can't figure it out, maybe just bad luck or double rib hits.........or they ARE macho deer!
I was just grasping at straws...I can't figure it out, maybe just bad luck or double rib hits.........or they ARE macho deer!
CWS, no doubt in my mind. I don't have to have a passthrough...just wondering. Like MO HO and Dmil said....2 holes and dead deer, what's to argue...
12-22-2006, 04:42 PM
#86
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Idaho
Posts: 2,072
RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
With great curiosity I ran the numbers on pinwheel.com, the same program I use to set up all of my sights. Using a comparitive number I came up with the following.
A bow shooting 300 fps with a 350 grain arrow showed that if I shot a 33 yard shot for 30 yards I would drop 1.59 inches low.
Using the equation of 3 grains per feet a second, I calculated that the same bow would fling a 520 grain arrow at 244 feet per second. This arrow on the simulator chart showed that it would hit 2.57 inches low using the same yardage numbers. Which is just under 1 inch difference.
With this difference in mind. you would have to royaly screw up to be able to tell that you were 1 inch off in the boiler room of a deer.
pinwheel software can be downloaded for a free 10 day trial. If you want to really know what your arrow is doing, check it out and play with the numbers on the simulation page. It has helped me greatly
A bow shooting 300 fps with a 350 grain arrow showed that if I shot a 33 yard shot for 30 yards I would drop 1.59 inches low.
Using the equation of 3 grains per feet a second, I calculated that the same bow would fling a 520 grain arrow at 244 feet per second. This arrow on the simulator chart showed that it would hit 2.57 inches low using the same yardage numbers. Which is just under 1 inch difference.
With this difference in mind. you would have to royaly screw up to be able to tell that you were 1 inch off in the boiler room of a deer.
pinwheel software can be downloaded for a free 10 day trial. If you want to really know what your arrow is doing, check it out and play with the numbers on the simulation page. It has helped me greatly
12-22-2006, 06:10 PM
#87
Site Buck Guru
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Posts: 5,922
RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
ORIGINAL: mobowhuntr
I don't, actually. There's too big a difference between the two. Bowling balls are weighed in POUNDS, ping pong balls are weighed in......Hell, I don't know what they're weighed in.
There just isn't much weight difference between 400 and 500 grains...Enough to change things? Certainly. As much as a bowling ball and ping pong ball? No way. I understand the point though, but there's just too big a difference for it to be relevant. We're only talking totals of like 2-5 foot pounds of KE here.......I'm still going w/ lighter/faster.
Arthur P, I like that bowling ball, ping pong ball comparison.
There just isn't much weight difference between 400 and 500 grains...Enough to change things? Certainly. As much as a bowling ball and ping pong ball? No way. I understand the point though, but there's just too big a difference for it to be relevant. We're only talking totals of like 2-5 foot pounds of KE here.......I'm still going w/ lighter/faster.
12-22-2006, 06:25 PM
#88
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Idaho
Posts: 2,072
RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
ORIGINAL: GregH
The bowling ball/ ping pong ball quote is mine. It was a gross exageration to show a point. If you keep the velocity the same for the 400 gr arrow and the 500 gr arrow, the difference is big.... not irrelevant. Both arrows @275 fps, 400 gr. = 67 ft-lbs KE and the 500 gr arrow =83 ft-lbs KE. For a difference of 16 ft-lbs KE. The momentum of the heavy arrow (bowling ball) will carry it through the target easier than the light arrow (ping pong ball). Even though I can't explain why, I believe that even with both arrows being the same KE, The heavier arrow will carry through the target easier than the lighter arrow. Due to other characteristics, momentum, stiffness to name a couple. BTW, 65 ft-lbs should blast through a deer, 70 would work even better etc. Everyone can choose a KE that will work for them by tweaking their arrow weight and speed. It is usually better to error on the heavy side. I learned from my mistake.... I've shot through the thin part of the shoulder blade with a slower, heavier arrow and not penetrated with a lighter faster one. With the chance of an off hit, the heavy one wins more than the light one.
ORIGINAL: mobowhuntr
I don't, actually. There's too big a difference between the two. Bowling balls are weighed in POUNDS, ping pong balls are weighed in......Hell, I don't know what they're weighed in.
There just isn't much weight difference between 400 and 500 grains...Enough to change things? Certainly. As much as a bowling ball and ping pong ball? No way. I understand the point though, but there's just too big a difference for it to be relevant. We're only talking totals of like 2-5 foot pounds of KE here.......I'm still going w/ lighter/faster.
Arthur P, I like that bowling ball, ping pong ball comparison.
There just isn't much weight difference between 400 and 500 grains...Enough to change things? Certainly. As much as a bowling ball and ping pong ball? No way. I understand the point though, but there's just too big a difference for it to be relevant. We're only talking totals of like 2-5 foot pounds of KE here.......I'm still going w/ lighter/faster.
12-22-2006, 07:04 PM
#89
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location:
Posts: 13,082
RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
Greg, you are correct. With one flaw......You will not keep the velocity the same when shooting a 400 grain and 500 grain arrow...without increasing your bow poundage.....
But yes, if you could, there would be significant difference. For instance, a 400 gr. arrow flying @ 285 will produce 72.16 pounds of KE....Without changing anything, a 500 grain arrow off of the same bow will fly at 265 fps, producing a KE of 77.9 pounds of KE....yes, it is producing more.....but not really that much....BUT, your arrow has slowed down by 20 fps.....Which is what I am trying to avoid.....
But yes, if you could, there would be significant difference. For instance, a 400 gr. arrow flying @ 285 will produce 72.16 pounds of KE....Without changing anything, a 500 grain arrow off of the same bow will fly at 265 fps, producing a KE of 77.9 pounds of KE....yes, it is producing more.....but not really that much....BUT, your arrow has slowed down by 20 fps.....Which is what I am trying to avoid.....
