Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
12-22-2006, 07:34 PM
#91
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location:
Posts: 13,082
RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
ORIGINAL: buckeyebuckhntr
Hello Arthur????
Waiting on a response......
Hello Arthur????
Waiting on a response......
12-22-2006, 07:36 PM
#92
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The OH-IO
Posts: 7,103
RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
The bowling ball/ ping pong ball quote is mine. It was a gross exageration to show a point. If you keep the velocity the same for the 400 gr arrow and the 500 gr arrow, the difference is big.... not irrelevant.
It very much is irrelevant..... You are speaking in "ifs".... How do you plan on keeping the velocity the same with a 100 grain swing in arrow weight????
Keeping all things equal (draw weight and draw length) it is impossible. I can't even understand why you would post such a gross exaggeration of an unattainable comparison.
Once again apples and oranges.....
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12-22-2006, 07:39 PM
#93
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The OH-IO
Posts: 7,103
RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
[blockquote]quote:
ORIGINAL: buckeyebuckhntr
Hello Arthur????
Waiting on a response......
[/blockquote]
Couple pages back buddy.....a legthy one at that....but as always, very informative.
ORIGINAL: buckeyebuckhntr
Hello Arthur????
Waiting on a response......
[/blockquote]
Couple pages back buddy.....a legthy one at that....but as always, very informative.
12-22-2006, 08:08 PM
#95
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
ORIGINAL: buckeyebuckhntr
It very much is irrelevant..... You are speaking in "ifs".... How do you plan on keeping the velocity the same with a 100 grain swing in arrow weight????
Keeping all things equal (draw weight and draw length) it is impossible. I can't even understand why you would post such a gross exaggeration of an unattainable comparison.
Once again apples and oranges.....
The bowling ball/ ping pong ball quote is mine. It was a gross exageration to show a point. If you keep the velocity the same for the 400 gr arrow and the 500 gr arrow, the difference is big.... not irrelevant.
It very much is irrelevant..... You are speaking in "ifs".... How do you plan on keeping the velocity the same with a 100 grain swing in arrow weight????
Keeping all things equal (draw weight and draw length) it is impossible. I can't even understand why you would post such a gross exaggeration of an unattainable comparison.
Once again apples and oranges.....
The only way to have that jump in KE do to both a gain in arrow weight and speed, it's with two different bows.
12-22-2006, 08:35 PM
#96
Super Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Southeast Central Illinois USA
Posts: 6,969
RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
By the way, anybody noticed how high the wound/loss ratios have climbed since this light arrow/high speed business and long distance 'slam dunk' shots have taken over bowhunting? Anybody noticed how the anti's have latched onto our wound/loss ratios and are using that as their primary argument to get bowhunting banned? Can anybody possibly come up with one simple something we can do immediately to change the situation?
(2) Only God can make a perfect shot every time. An unseen twig, stiff breeze, animal turning same time as the release, human error, etc. can change the game significantly. I'll take my chances with the heavier arrow on a shot less than perfect.
(3) From 10 to 40 yards the drop isn't that much and if someone can't tell the difference between 20 yards and 40 yards while hunting then......enuff said. I used 40 because that is my personal maximum self-appointed maximum range that I feel confident shooting at a deer. Actually I know guys that have more of a problem between 5-10 yards!
12-22-2006, 08:55 PM
#97
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 286
RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
ORIGINAL: GregH
The bowling ball/ ping pong ball quote is mine. It was a gross exageration to show a point. If you keep the velocity the same for the 400 gr arrow and the 500 gr arrow, the difference is big.... not irrelevant. Both arrows @275 fps, 400 gr. = 67 ft-lbs KE and the 500 gr arrow =83 ft-lbs KE. For a difference of 16 ft-lbs KE. The momentum of the heavy arrow (bowling ball) will carry it through the target easier than the light arrow (ping pong ball). Even though I can't explain why, I believe that even with both arrows being the same KE, The heavier arrow will carry through the target easier than the lighter arrow. Due to other characteristics, momentum, stiffness to name a couple. BTW, 65 ft-lbs should blast through a deer, 70 would work even better etc. Everyone can choose a KE that will work for them by tweaking their arrow weight and speed. It is usually better to error on the heavy side. I learned from my mistake.... I've shot through the thin part of the shoulder blade with a slower, heavier arrow and not penetrated with a lighter faster one. With the chance of an off hit, the heavy one wins more than the light one.
ORIGINAL: mobowhuntr
I don't, actually. There's too big a difference between the two. Bowling balls are weighed in POUNDS, ping pong balls are weighed in......Hell, I don't know what they're weighed in.
There just isn't much weight difference between 400 and 500 grains...Enough to change things? Certainly. As much as a bowling ball and ping pong ball? No way. I understand the point though, but there's just too big a difference for it to be relevant. We're only talking totals of like 2-5 foot pounds of KE here.......I'm still going w/ lighter/faster.
Arthur P, I like that bowling ball, ping pong ball comparison.
There just isn't much weight difference between 400 and 500 grains...Enough to change things? Certainly. As much as a bowling ball and ping pong ball? No way. I understand the point though, but there's just too big a difference for it to be relevant. We're only talking totals of like 2-5 foot pounds of KE here.......I'm still going w/ lighter/faster.
12-22-2006, 09:21 PM
#98
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The OH-IO
Posts: 7,103
RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
Someone argue with this..... Shot from the SAME BOW, nothing hypothetical here. Real world numbers.......
350 Grains at 300FPS yields 69.87 ft lb KE
500 Grains at 254 FPS yields 71.55 ft lb KE
At 350 grains and 300 FPS your arrows trajectorydrops 22.92 inches from 20 to 50 yards and loses 4.15 ft lb of KE from 0 to 50 yards.
At 500 grains and 254 FPS your arrows trajectory drops 34.34 inches from 20 to 50 yards and loses 3 ft lb of KE from 0 to 50 yards.
SO, in essence you flatten your trajectory 11 1/2 inches while only sacrificing less than 2 ft lb of KE with the lighter faster arrow setup.
While I do not hunt at 350 grains, I am just proving a point here.
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12-22-2006, 10:07 PM
#99
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 2,849
RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
buckeye, don't try to argue with ArthurP... he knows everything. No one here can teach him anything. Didn't you read his last post? He has been hunting for 50 years and now knows as much as god himself. Of course, his numbers were all way off and so were his assumptions, but what does that matter?
12-23-2006, 02:32 AM
#100
Site Buck Guru
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Posts: 5,922
RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??
ORIGINAL: buckeyebuckhntr
It very much is irrelevant..... You are speaking in "ifs".... How do you plan on keeping the velocity the same with a 100 grain swing in arrow weight????
Keeping all things equal (draw weight and draw length) it is impossible. I can't even understand why you would post such a gross exaggeration of an unattainable comparison.
Once again apples and oranges.....
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The bowling ball/ ping pong ball quote is mine. It was a gross exageration to show a point. If you keep the velocity the same for the 400 gr arrow and the 500 gr arrow, the difference is big.... not irrelevant.
It very much is irrelevant..... You are speaking in "ifs".... How do you plan on keeping the velocity the same with a 100 grain swing in arrow weight????
Keeping all things equal (draw weight and draw length) it is impossible. I can't even understand why you would post such a gross exaggeration of an unattainable comparison.
Once again apples and oranges.....
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Sometimes you have to read the whole post before you jump to rediculous conclusions. Thourough reading and comprehension will help you understand.
Tweaking speed: most bows have an adjustable weight range. If you want to keep your velocity up, but use a heavier arrow, you must increase the poundage of your bow. A few pounds may get you where you want to be. Hence the term "tweaking". I wouldn't suggest tweaking the draw length unless you are trying to obtain the proper fit. If you need a better explaination of this, let me know.
Once again...NOT apples to oranges, poor reading and comprehension leads to mass confusion.
