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Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??

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Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??

Old 12-22-2006, 11:03 AM
  #61  
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Default RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??

350 gn arrow
0 yards 350 fps 70 ft lbs
50 yards 275 fps 59 ft lbs

400 gn arrow
0 yards 280 fps 70 ft lbs
50 yards 260 fps 60 ft lbs

500 gn arrow
0 yards 252 fps 70 ft lbs
50 yards 238 fps 63 ft lbs

800 gn arrow (just to be silly [8D])
0 yards 199 fps 70 ft lbs
50 yards 193 fps 66 ft lbs

These speeds are incorrect, as well as the stated KE you posted...... You can't just make up a KE value for an arrow weight and then compare it to another arrows at it's actual KE value.

This is irreverent as a 350 grain arrow at 350FPS has much more KE than 70#. This is apples to oranges and pointless. You dropped the 350 grain arrow more than 20 ft lbs so it would look good in your graph, to attempt to prove your heavy arrow theroy. Of course everyone knows a heavier arrow carries slightly more KE as well as more momentum. This thread is pointing out that enough is enough. Out of today's high performance bows you don't need a tree trunk to kill a whitetail and have your arrow buried in the dirt on the other side.

It is also a bad comparison because you didn't pick a "bow" and use the different weight arrows out of it for a true comparison of spedd and KE.

How your graph should read for speed and KE values.....

350 gn arrow
0 yards 350 fps 95.11 ft lbs
50 yards343.19 fps 91.44 ft lbs

400 gn arrow
0 yards 280 fps69.56 ft lbs
50 yards 273.70 fps66.47 ft lbs

500 gn arrow
0 yards 252 fps70.43 ft lbs
50 yards 24.45 fps67.92 ft lbs

800 gn arrow (just to be silly [8D])
0 yards 199 fps70.28 ft lbs
50 yards 196.75 fps 68.70 ft lbs

I will make another graph as if all the different weight arrows were shot out one bow, to show no bias.




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Old 12-22-2006, 11:16 AM
  #62  
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Default RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??

Forget the Kinetic Energy, it's momentum that counts. There's no way I'll shoot an elk with less than a 400 grain arrow. You won't get adequate penetration from a 300 grain arrow doing 300fps imo.
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Old 12-22-2006, 11:20 AM
  #63  
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Default RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??

ORIGINAL: marcusjb

There's no way I'll shoot an elk with less than a 400 grain arrow.
Have you? Why wouldn't you? What speed are you talking about?

I have shot elk with a 380ish grain arrow leaving the bow at 274fpsand it blows right through them. Why do you think I need more weight? Seriously, I am trying to get an answer not ask rhetorical questions.
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Old 12-22-2006, 11:30 AM
  #64  
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Default RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??

Those are just my own personal minimums. I'm not saying you can't kill an elk with a lighter arrow; lots of people do. But I think penetration is much more important than speed on big animals like elk and I don't want to sacrifice it to a longer shooting range. I haven't shot many elk, but I've never had an arrow go completely through. I shoot 425 grain arrows at around 265 fps. I don't believe KEtells the true story of penetration.
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Old 12-22-2006, 11:36 AM
  #65  
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Default RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??

ORIGINAL: mobowhuntr

OK...so we know a heavier arrow carries with it more KE and momentum than a lighter arrow. We also know a lighter arrow carries w/ it more speed.

I know in days past when mostly traditional equipment was being used, and even in the early days of the compound that heavier arrows were the way to go. The weight was needed for penetration. Times have changed, however. Todays compounds are producing better than 100% KE and are as efficient as ever.

I personally no longer see the need to worry about heavy arrows and KE....I believe in MOST cases a lighter arrow shooting 300+ fps will carry enough KE to do the job. I vote for a lighter, faster arrow.

What are your thoughts?
getting back to the original post. If I was hunting deer size game yes, I would agree with you. Start talking about anything larger or more dangerous, I would go with the heavier. I know people have killed this with that and so on, but even after scores of bowkills, I want to have extra insurance on a less that perfectly executed shot. Almost all of my shots on mule deer, elk, antelope and bear have been within 20 yards and less. There is only 3 that I took over 20 because the conditions were just right. They were a 27 yard broadsidebull- pass through, a 35 yard broadside bull- pass through and a 62 yard mule deer doe- stuck out the other side but arrow stayed in( go ahead and hammer me on that one it wasn't the horns that made me do it).

Insurance is good to have.
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Old 12-22-2006, 12:14 PM
  #66  
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Default RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??

huntingson, you're a riot. Disrespectful, but in a funny kind of way.[8D]

I've been bowhunting for 50 years. You have something to teach me? Something I haven't already tried - and rejected - myself? I've made shots on game far longer than your 40 yard 'slam dunks.' Of course, those shots came back when I was young and stupid, and felt like I had to kill something to take home or I was a failure. I learned from those mistakes though and matured.

By the way, anybody noticed how high the wound/loss ratios have climbed since this light arrow/high speed business and long distance 'slam dunk' shots have taken over bowhunting? Anybody noticed how the anti's have latched onto our wound/loss ratios and are using that as their primary argument to get bowhunting banned? Can anybody possibly come up with one simple something we can do immediately to change the situation?

Not going to punch you in the head with it. Most of you've got enough snap in your rubber bands to figure out what I mean.
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Old 12-22-2006, 12:28 PM
  #67  
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Default RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??

Rob,

Dude if your not getting pass throughs with 80# of KE an a whitetail something is terribly wrong; and I don't believe it's your broadheads. Because of the design of the Snypers, they use probably the least amount of KE to operate, not to mention the blades are scary sharp out of the package. You should be blowing through those deer like the proverbial hot knife through butter. I've blown though deer with the Vortex mini max 3 blade 2"cut with a lot less KE than that (before I got my Bowtechs that is [8D]). If you feel that it might be your heads then take a look at Slick Tricks. With blood trails like the ones below, who needs mechanicals.








BTW, these are kills by a young lady shooting 45# draw weight with 85 grain Slick Tricks. Seems to have done a hell of a job to me.


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Old 12-22-2006, 12:34 PM
  #68  
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Default RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??

Pic #2




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Old 12-22-2006, 01:52 PM
  #69  
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Default RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??

Arthur, thank you for the compliment about being funny. I try to make things amuzing... Disrepectful? You were the one calling me, and countless others,terrible hunters and stupid. I think that called for a little jab. Yes, I think I could teach you quite a bit, just as you could me. Unless the saying you can't teach an old dog new tricks is actually true. No, you didn't mature you just got older, or you wouldn't be on here saying that if people don't hunt exactly like you they are terrible hunters and stupid. I am glad that you learned that you can't hit a barn door at 40 yards and quit trying. I can. I don't see the problem. I would argue that the hit/wounded ration has not increased at all. The numbers may have, but not the ratio. Also, you didn't have things like these forums years ago for people to know of all the animals people shoot and don't recover.

Do you really think that because you have been bowhunting for 50 years you have nothing left to learn? There is no way you are that closed minded. I have been bowhunting for 19 years... how many more years before I know everything so I can quit trying to learn?
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Old 12-22-2006, 02:17 PM
  #70  
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Default RE: Heavy arrow, more KE....light arrow, more speed..??

ORIGINAL: Mike from Texas

Rob,

Dude if your not getting pass throughs with 80# of KE an a whitetail something is terribly wrong; and I don't believe it's your broadheads. Because of the design of the Snypers, they use probably the least amount of KE to operate, not to mention the blades are scary sharp out of the package. You should be blowing through those deer like the proverbial hot knife through butter.
Well, that's the case so if not the Snypers, which I didn't doubt, then where's the common demoninator, are my bucks just that much tougher?

380 grain arrow, 301 fps = 76 ft lbs.

oops, I keep thinking of my Bowtech, the 4 bucks prior to that one was with my Hoyt 380 grain arrow, 285 fps, 68 ft lbs. Still should have passed through..?
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