RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
 

" For you? Yes. For many many others? No. And that is the exact point that has been shown and given to you time and time and time again. Yet, you still ignore it because it doesn't fit into your argument."

Lets address it then. Pat missed how many shots ? I read on the LW every day people missing and forgetting to pick a spot. I hunt with a guy who switched to a BW recurve 7 years ago and is 0 for 5, buddy of mine in TX is like 1 for 12 with a couple of hits not recovered quick enough. I read the LW and this site a lot, I KNOW what I am reading and the difficulty of shooting a longbow/recurve. My buddy in KS, he's 0 for 3 on shooting at whitetails with his longbow. I read time and again the "self imposed" 20 yards limits people who shoot with a longbow/recurve have. And thats great, but compound hunters can and do shoot father. Why ? BECAUSE THEY CAN and are more accurate. Fact, undeniabel fact by everybody thats posted here but, well, you JRW. I suspect you are as good as you appear to be, but few other are.

" You also haven't learned the difference between bows and accessories, seeing as you glossed right over it, yet again."

Has little to do with accessories, its all about "pulling the string back" - thats the argument the PBS spokeman presented and is the key to unraveling the anti-crossbow argument. IF its about accessories, surely theres MUCH more seperating a longbow/recurve from a compound than there is seperating a crossbow from a compound ? See the list above.

Charlie P - Depends. EBAY sells a lot of older recurves/longbows for $100 or so. Good ones. Get some leather fingers and a few carbons and go stump shooting - lots of fun and challenging (for most people anyway)

" Answer me one question Stealthy. Why would anyone other than someone who is disabled, want to choose a crossbow to shoot over a compound, recurve or longbow? "

Okay - to capitalize on the longer archery seasons and in some cases to bag meat does where rifle hunting only allows bucks. Why a crossbow ? Litle practice involved. However is that s the criteria to determine what is and isn't allowed in archery season, then I submit a longbow/recurve takes much more practice if equally compared and thus, they should put compounds in a seperate season. My point exactly Cougar Mag. With a compound you don't have top practice from one season to the next really. A few shots with the techonology of today and people go bowhunting be it compound or crossbow. I suspect longbow/recurve shooter do the same. people 3D because they enjoy shooting their bows, I suppoose a few crossbow shooters do too.


" Your positive statements about crossbows are negated by your statements about a new compound shooter could kill a deer within 20 yds easily! "

I feel the same about practice Cougar, but that has little to do with the law or what people actually do. This guy demonstrated that with never shooting a compound he can shoot it as well as a crossbow, HIS crossbow. I don't think he's the exception either. My father in law once showed me a very similar thing. Compounds are NOT that difficult to shoot if tuned. Heck anything has to be tuned though and is not hard line for what should and shouldn't be allowed in archery season.

So I ask - what IS or SHOULD be the hard line that says what IS and ISN'T allowed in archery season ? Not easy thinking and with more and more states allowing crossbows, and the PBS up in arms and fighting it every step of the way - its good discussions for passing the week until Sat and Sun hunting comes around.

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RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
 

<font size=4>Having the ability to hit the bullseye with your sporting arm of choice does not make you a hunter.</font id=size4>

I think the majority of people who are pro or anti anything as far as sporting arms go would agree with the following:

&quot;I would welcome any hunter to hunt with me -no matter which sporting arm he/she chooses to utilize- as long as they share the same ethics and sheer passion for the sport of hunting as I do.&quot;

Bowhunting is one of my biggest passions. If you live and breathe hunting the way I do, I don't care if you use a blow gun to get the job done. I think some of the problems we associate towards particular sporting arms, may have more to do with the operator than the arm itself.

Keep an open mind, perhaps try something new yourself, you might be missing something you'd really enjoy. I even bought a new rifle to try my hand at rifle season with a million other PA hunters. You just never know!

RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
 

While this may have gotten out of hand (for a few)<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>it is very aparent that feelings motivate some responses a little more than they should.

SC, Depending on the person recurves and LB are not harder. I've harvested many WTD with them. As I brought up earlier, I can switch back and forth easily. Not because of a gift but because I started long ago shooting traditional bow instinctively. After I got my head out in shunning compounds the conversion was very easy. All of these weapons are fine in the proper hands. My reasoning for abandoning my compound mental block years ago was basically to make me more apt to make a clean kill all of the time. To make it fairer to the animal I hunt. Let us as hunters do the best thing for these noble animals not our egos.

I think your missing JRW's point though.

Hopefully my last .02 on this

RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
 

Stealthy,
When shooting trad equipment, why are you holding at full draw for so long? Shoot what style you want, but it sounds like your trying to shoot trad equipment like it was a compound with sights.
Like I said before. You STILL MUST pull 70# on a 70# bow...no matter the let off. Buck fever or not, 70# is 70# is 70#. Your trad bow may be 70#...but only at one spot (unfortunatly your anchor).
Now I have NEVER been one to force ethics on someone, and I'm not doing it now....but seeing as your haveing SO much trouble hitting an ELK with your trad stuff....How long are you going to keep flinging arrows at live animals that you admitedly cannot hit? How many are you going to hit, before hitting the vitals?
<u>PERSONALLY</u> I am not happy unless I can put all 5 arrows in the target close enough to get my finger and thumb from one hand around the group. Again, that's <u>ME</u>.
Are you having SO much more fun with this trad stuff, that you would rather keep shooting this way that actually have that deer or elk?
WHY BAN more and more stuff. More hunters is NOT a BAD thing...it's a GOOD thing. To be worried they would be in YOUR woods is selfish (IMNSHO).
trad, compounds, and crossBOWS are in the same season because they kill deer on the same principle, and have a very limited range. NOT because xBOW shooters are &quot;archers&quot; it's due to the nature of the tool at hand.
I find it VERY hard to understand WHY people would try to talk others into making a hard job (killing a deer with a pointed stick with blades on it) EVEN harder. I use a compound, a release, sights, silencers, carbon arrows (don't EVEN go there), stabilizer, wrist sling, and a peep. ALL help me hit my target. EVEN WITH all that, the animal can still move, that makes it hard enough for me. Now you want me to start flinging arrows with trad stuff? How many deer you want wounded by having us all go trad?

RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Answer me one question Stealthy. Why would anyone other than someone who is disabled, want to choose a crossbow to shoot over a compound, recurve or longbow?

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

If I may<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle> How about change of pace? Adding another weapon to my arsenal? I could go on.
Whats the answer your looking for? Because it's easier? SO WHAT!
If it makes it a little easier for the person who's adrenaline rush renders him/her useless with a hand drawn bow , then go for it.
It all boils down to selfishness and the mightier than thou attitude!

RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
 

I don't like to speak for anyone else but I really don't think SC was serious when he said ban compounds.It was just a way to get people to read his post.How could he be serious about banning compounds it would hurt bow hunting greatly.

With out compounds where would bow hunting be?

Would there still be a bow season with out the modern compound?I kinda doubt it.

How many trad hunters are there out of 100 bow hunters? 4 or 5. I have personally only came across one guy in the woods with trad. equipment and that over 14 years of hunting with a bow.If you took 95% of bow hunters out of the woods how long do you think we would still have a season? I realize some guys would pick up traditional gear but would enough do it?

RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
 

SC,

So you obviously ignore all the posts here about misses and wounding with compounds? Good grief, this place looks like the &quot;wounding forum&quot; sometimes...and this ain't the trad forum here...is it?. Neither group, trad or compound (or even rifles for that matter), has a lock on missing or wounding...do they? Read the threads on this very forum to get your obvious answer.

On one hand you like to point out all of the missing and wounding that goes on with some people who use trad equipment...but then ignore the fact that the exact same thing happens with some people who use compounds? How convienent for your argument.

Thanks for perpetuating the &quot;wounding myth&quot; of trad shooters! I would have expected more from a bowhunter with as many years to his credit as you have. Please don't ever accuse anyone else, including myself, of driving a wedge again.

<font color=red>&quot;Has little to do with accessories, its all about &quot;pulling the string back&quot; &quot;</font id=red>

Then why do you go on, ad nauseum, about the &quot;similarities&quot; of compounds to crossguns by discussing things like sights, releases, and other accessories? You can't have it both ways. Again...chasing the tail.

As far as your buddies and their track records of misses and wounds... If a person stays within their effective range, they don't go 0 for 5, or 1 for 12 with a couple of wounds. Yes, animals jump the string, and &quot;stuff&quot; happens...but let's be serious. I've got a dollar waitin' on a dime that says their records of missing and wounding would only increase with a weapon that they felt they could shoot even further. My advice for them would be to learn, and stay within, their effective range, or take up a new hobby...like knitting.

JRW

RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
 

Stealth_Force - I don't think I said that. I missed my elk because I hit a limb, and oddly enough hit a limb on the whitetail too. I haven't missed two animals since 1995 ! I know that a faster arrow would have killed me two nice animals. Now, I DID miss, and I should have seen the limbs, just didn't. I can shoot well enough, both shots felt good. I wanted to hunt last year with my longbow but wasn't a good enough shot. I am not the shot I was with a compound though, just like compound shooters are not as accurate as rifle shooter.

&quot; I find it VERY hard to understand WHY people would try to talk others into making a hard job (killing a deer with a pointed stick with blades on it) EVEN harder. I use a compound, a release, sights, silencers, carbon arrows (don't EVEN go there), stabilizer, wrist sling, and a peep. ALL help me hit my target. EVEN WITH all that, the animal can still move, that makes it hard enough for me. Now you want me to start flinging arrows with trad stuff? How many deer you want wounded by having us all go trad?&quot;

I aint talking anyone into it. FACT - a lot of bowhunters want to ban crossbows. Why ? Because it isn't challenging they say, like a compound. BUT when using the same comparisons between compounds and recurve/longbows, we see even MORE differences and challenges, don't we ? I listed a few even. So wheres the logic ?? Seperate crossbows out, then seperate compounds too because surly they are even more difficult to use and master ? Right ?

You can't force ethics. You can be an example, you can talk about it and debate it, but can't make anyone adhere to ethcis. We all know those guys who don't sight in their rifles, who don't practice, who take very poor shots ... what to do ? I know that theres anything that can be done. Accuracy is paramount, but not a reason to place restrictions on weapons is it ? I think we bowhunt for the challenge, some see a crossbow as a challenge, some a compound, others recurves/longbows and others selfbows. To each his own I say ... but many do not say that. They say that because a crossbow (that heavy, awkward, loud, not as accurate as a compound, triggered, wheelie with sights thing we described above) isn't hand drawn, and for that reason only, ban it from archery season. I don't buy that anymore because the reasoning behind that view is flawed best I can tell.

BOWFANATIC - EXACTLY ! If being easier is the criteria for seperating weapons - then surly a compound should be taken out as well. Is that not correct everybody ??

Charlie P - You are correct. May I expand on that ? How many crossbow shooters out of a 100 ? DOES IT MATTER ? In Arkansas the season has stayed the same length, bag limits are just fine, theres no overcrowding in the woods ... theres NO reason to back that crossbows are bad.




Stealthycat's Photo's

Edited by - stealthycat on 11/22/2002 15:00:09

RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
 

<font color=red>&quot;To each his own I say ... but many ( example JRW ) do not say that. They say that because a crossbow (that heavy, awkward, loud, not as accurate as a compound, triggered, wheelie with sights thing we described above) isn't hand drawn, and for that reason only, ban it from archery season.&quot;</font id=red>

..and thank you for putting words in my mouth SC.

again...<font color=red>&quot;..isn't hand drawn, and for that reason only...&quot;</font id=red>

Would you like to quote and source where I ever said that? Or were you going to retract that lie?

JRW (waiting)

RE: Ban compounds from archery season - thoughts ??
 

sc, you're really backtracking now. First you use your misses as a reason why trad gear is so much harder, than when challenged, you admit it had nothing to do with the equipment, it was a brain lapse on the shooter's part. Which is it? Is it because trad gear is harder, or because the archer screwed up? I'm not buying the &quot;guarantee&quot; of either kill with a compound, there were most likely more twigs, could have hit one of them, or missed all together. Nothings &quot;guaranteed&quot; until you tag it. 14 years should haave taught you that much.
And how many tmes must we point out, the basis of your argument is that compounds more closely resemble crossbows than trad gear, but YOU are the only one saying that. You can't use your personal opinion as fact to back up an argument, sorry.
I guess this is all a mute point, with a seperate season for compounds, the trad season would be a brief one, at least in the whitetail states. Not enough trad guys to manage the herd properly, I suspect the compounders would have the bulk of the fall to themselves.
And yes, your friends sound like slobs to me, 1 for 12?, O for 5? Those peope have no business in the wods, regardless of equipment.
I agree, they'd have wounded twice as much if they thought they could take even longer shots.


&quot;In heaven, even the fish have antlers&quot;