little ones make big ones
11-30-2006, 03:57 PM
#321
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: IOWA/25' UP
Posts: 7,145
RE: little ones make big ones
ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer
Can't hardly argue with that except, why drag equipment choices into the same arena as QM?
I had a guy like this approach me at Hoyt booth and lean over the counter and say, "too complicated, I hunt the hard way" while wrinkling his nose. I asked "Oh yeah, what's the hard way?"....of course I knew the response that was coming, "I use a recurve." To that I repsonded, "what's so hard about that" and the oncoming look was priceless......I then asked "IF a deer was 20 yards from you, could you hit it every time?" "Of course I can" came the harsh response as I then said, "SO can I, so what's so hard about that". (IN fact, I missed 2 years ago one at 16 yards which I'm sure a stick bow shooter could have hit)..I then said, "isn't the challenge then to get them within that effective bow range rather than hitting the deer"? He walked away with smile and agreement.
SO I ask you AP, why is it easier with a compound when the majority of bucks/deer ever taken are within range of a stick bow shooter? Hey, your brought it up.
ORIGINAL: Arthur P
Yeah, I think I remember seeing that somewhere back there...[8D]
I'm done biting my tongue and holding back on this garbage. Here's my real opinion about this matter. There will be some strong opinions, sarcasm andunflattering comments - aimed at the group, not at any individual -in this post, so this is fair warning. You guys might want to get out the steel toed boots and get 'em laced up, 'cuz I'm fixin' to do some stompin'.
First, the obvious. Horn hunters want big racks. Their mantra: Let the little ones go so they can grow.
Why? Simple. Sothere willbe more deer with big racks. Why? More deer with bigracks in the woods, means it'll be EASIER to find deer with big racks. It has absolutely nothing to do with maintaining the natural age balance of the herd, but that's too bad. The demands of the trophy hunter's ego come before the demands of Nature.
Keep the buck/doe ratio 1:1. It has nothing to do with maintaining the buck to doe ratio as nature intended. It will be much EASIER to find those bucks when they can't stay in cover buthave to chase all over hell and back to find the one doe he's supposed to be with, or to fight it out with a whole bunch ofother bucks for breeding rights. Morefighting than he'd have to do in a herd with a natural balance, certainly.Not too good for the deer but that's too bad. The demands of the trophy hunter's ego againtakes precedence overthe demands of Nature.
Look, trophy hunters. As I said earlier in this mess, you've already gone easier with equipment. It's easier to shoot accurately with a compound and sights than it is with a barebow recurve. You hunt from treestands because it's easier than hunting at eye level with the animals. You plant food plots to draw deer and concentrate them where you want them, so they'll beeasier to find. You buy every piece of garbage on the store shelves that you think even MIGHT give you an edge and make hunting easier. It's already gottentoo easy to just shoot a deer, so now you have to shoot a BIG deer? Oh, the demands of the trophy hunter's ego!
Oooo!But wait! It's toodarn difficult to only shoot big deerbecause there aren't that many big ones. Gotta do what we did with equipment and make it easier. How? Ahhh! By artifically manipulating herd balances, not to mention the attitudes of other hunters. (Behind closed doors they ask one another.... Is it possible to talk thosedumb sapsinto not filling their tags for a few years and try to make our selfish motives look like it's for their own good?)
Big racks are nice, butWHY are they nice? It's because they are SPECIAL. They are out of the ordinary. Taking a deer with an exceptional rack is something not everyone has done, or will ever do.
By the same token, I remember when bowhunting was special and out of the ordinary. Something not everyone could do. Now with the compound device and mechanical accoutrements, everybody can do it and it's not so special any more. I haven't seen a picture of a bowhunter with a deer on the front page of the newspaper in nearly 40 years. It used to be big news when a deer fell to an arrow. Now, taking a deer with bow and arrow has gotten so easy andmundane that nobody even notices any more.
How much easier do you guys want it? Artificial food sources, artificially manipulated herd ratios, artificial bows.... Each and everyaspect geared specifically to making it easier to kill a deer with an arrow.
So, horn hunters,what happens when you get your way and it's easy to shoot a big racked buck? When big racks are so common that they no longer special? What happens to your exceptional egos when your trophiesbecome ordinary? Answer that.You gonna start preaching to everyone that they should pass on those10 point dinks and let 'em grow to be 12's? 14's? How big are you going to have to go before racks get special again?
What a CROCK!
The way I see this QDM, TQM, stuff, it's not done for the sake of the herd at all. Someone else back yonder a ways in the thread said it's all about the horns. That's not quite the whole story. It's all for the sake of the guys who want to shoot big racks but aren't willing totrust to theluck of the drawand take what nature provides. It's for the guys who want it to be easy enough that they don't have to spend as much time in the woods as it'd take to get an HONEST trophy. It's all about artificially enhancing their chances at a trophy.
And they want to put themselves forward asthe new breedof elite hunters and make everyone else feel badfor not passing up deer that don't meet some mytical standard?Phhhhbbbbttttt![:'(]
Please, spare me the smoke and mirrors. I know you QDM typesdon't want any of this discussed but, since I've watched this wholeconcept develop over the past 20 years, I know the truth of the matter.
Remember, I gave you fair warning.
Some where in here or another one it is suggested. Shoot the little ones so the bigs breed....
I'm done biting my tongue and holding back on this garbage. Here's my real opinion about this matter. There will be some strong opinions, sarcasm andunflattering comments - aimed at the group, not at any individual -in this post, so this is fair warning. You guys might want to get out the steel toed boots and get 'em laced up, 'cuz I'm fixin' to do some stompin'.
First, the obvious. Horn hunters want big racks. Their mantra: Let the little ones go so they can grow.
Why? Simple. Sothere willbe more deer with big racks. Why? More deer with bigracks in the woods, means it'll be EASIER to find deer with big racks. It has absolutely nothing to do with maintaining the natural age balance of the herd, but that's too bad. The demands of the trophy hunter's ego come before the demands of Nature.
Keep the buck/doe ratio 1:1. It has nothing to do with maintaining the buck to doe ratio as nature intended. It will be much EASIER to find those bucks when they can't stay in cover buthave to chase all over hell and back to find the one doe he's supposed to be with, or to fight it out with a whole bunch ofother bucks for breeding rights. Morefighting than he'd have to do in a herd with a natural balance, certainly.Not too good for the deer but that's too bad. The demands of the trophy hunter's ego againtakes precedence overthe demands of Nature.
Look, trophy hunters. As I said earlier in this mess, you've already gone easier with equipment. It's easier to shoot accurately with a compound and sights than it is with a barebow recurve. You hunt from treestands because it's easier than hunting at eye level with the animals. You plant food plots to draw deer and concentrate them where you want them, so they'll beeasier to find. You buy every piece of garbage on the store shelves that you think even MIGHT give you an edge and make hunting easier. It's already gottentoo easy to just shoot a deer, so now you have to shoot a BIG deer? Oh, the demands of the trophy hunter's ego!
Oooo!But wait! It's toodarn difficult to only shoot big deerbecause there aren't that many big ones. Gotta do what we did with equipment and make it easier. How? Ahhh! By artifically manipulating herd balances, not to mention the attitudes of other hunters. (Behind closed doors they ask one another.... Is it possible to talk thosedumb sapsinto not filling their tags for a few years and try to make our selfish motives look like it's for their own good?)
Big racks are nice, butWHY are they nice? It's because they are SPECIAL. They are out of the ordinary. Taking a deer with an exceptional rack is something not everyone has done, or will ever do.
By the same token, I remember when bowhunting was special and out of the ordinary. Something not everyone could do. Now with the compound device and mechanical accoutrements, everybody can do it and it's not so special any more. I haven't seen a picture of a bowhunter with a deer on the front page of the newspaper in nearly 40 years. It used to be big news when a deer fell to an arrow. Now, taking a deer with bow and arrow has gotten so easy andmundane that nobody even notices any more.
How much easier do you guys want it? Artificial food sources, artificially manipulated herd ratios, artificial bows.... Each and everyaspect geared specifically to making it easier to kill a deer with an arrow.
So, horn hunters,what happens when you get your way and it's easy to shoot a big racked buck? When big racks are so common that they no longer special? What happens to your exceptional egos when your trophiesbecome ordinary? Answer that.You gonna start preaching to everyone that they should pass on those10 point dinks and let 'em grow to be 12's? 14's? How big are you going to have to go before racks get special again?
What a CROCK!
The way I see this QDM, TQM, stuff, it's not done for the sake of the herd at all. Someone else back yonder a ways in the thread said it's all about the horns. That's not quite the whole story. It's all for the sake of the guys who want to shoot big racks but aren't willing totrust to theluck of the drawand take what nature provides. It's for the guys who want it to be easy enough that they don't have to spend as much time in the woods as it'd take to get an HONEST trophy. It's all about artificially enhancing their chances at a trophy.
And they want to put themselves forward asthe new breedof elite hunters and make everyone else feel badfor not passing up deer that don't meet some mytical standard?Phhhhbbbbttttt![:'(]
Please, spare me the smoke and mirrors. I know you QDM typesdon't want any of this discussed but, since I've watched this wholeconcept develop over the past 20 years, I know the truth of the matter.
Remember, I gave you fair warning.
I had a guy like this approach me at Hoyt booth and lean over the counter and say, "too complicated, I hunt the hard way" while wrinkling his nose. I asked "Oh yeah, what's the hard way?"....of course I knew the response that was coming, "I use a recurve." To that I repsonded, "what's so hard about that" and the oncoming look was priceless......I then asked "IF a deer was 20 yards from you, could you hit it every time?" "Of course I can" came the harsh response as I then said, "SO can I, so what's so hard about that". (IN fact, I missed 2 years ago one at 16 yards which I'm sure a stick bow shooter could have hit)..I then said, "isn't the challenge then to get them within that effective bow range rather than hitting the deer"? He walked away with smile and agreement.
SO I ask you AP, why is it easier with a compound when the majority of bucks/deer ever taken are within range of a stick bow shooter? Hey, your brought it up.
11-30-2006, 04:09 PM
#322
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: little ones make big ones
ORIGINAL: GregH
Atlas, I'm on my way to hunt right now. Just for you, I'm going to make it challenging. Since I can about cherry pick a mature buck out of the many that will be milling about my stand, I'll leave my bow in the truck and just throw my arrow at him. After I remove all the fletching of course. Maybe even shut one eye.
Wish me luck buddy!
Atlas, I'm on my way to hunt right now. Just for you, I'm going to make it challenging. Since I can about cherry pick a mature buck out of the many that will be milling about my stand, I'll leave my bow in the truck and just throw my arrow at him. After I remove all the fletching of course. Maybe even shut one eye.
Wish me luck buddy!
Pffffft...........like fishing with dynamite
[8D]
I wish I could still bowhunt............our seasons here are too short. It sucks.
11-30-2006, 04:15 PM
#323
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: little ones make big ones
ORIGINAL: MOTOWNHONKEY
I'm sure one on one ole Atlas is a nice guy and fun to be around. He just likes to argue. Remember he does have more letters after his name than in it. Like MD PHD a-hole and such.
I'm sure one on one ole Atlas is a nice guy and fun to be around. He just likes to argue. Remember he does have more letters after his name than in it. Like MD PHD a-hole and such.
Hey hey hey...................a-hole is my MIDDLE name
11-30-2006, 04:15 PM
#324
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: little ones make big ones
ORIGINAL: MOTOWNHONKEY
Good luck with that spiker Atlas. Atleast you can just throw him over your shoulder after you gut him. If you get thirsty just lick the milk off it's mouth.
Good luck with that spiker Atlas. Atleast you can just throw him over your shoulder after you gut him. If you get thirsty just lick the milk off it's mouth.
Thanks..............didn't see any spikers.........or bucks. Had 5 deer eating right under my stand for about 30 minutes though.
It was weird............2 big does with 3 little ones. Hate to see that this late in the season. They should have been chased off by now.
Even worse............already filled my doe tag [:@]
Oh well...........good show.
11-30-2006, 04:22 PM
#325
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: North Central Iowa
Posts: 470
RE: little ones make big ones
I have read some stupid stuff on this one. Why is it that when some one asks "Why do people that shoot little bucks complain that they don't get to shoot big ones?", everyone blows up and takes it personal? It is dumb, just dumb. No one person on this site has the right to think they know more than the next person, if your on here more than another person, that doesn't make you better or smarter than them. Maybe they are out hunting and you should do the same.
Don't get bent over "OPINIONS" because they are like Edited for skirting the profanity filter,1st warning. , everyone has one, and there isn't a darn thing you can do about it. Do what you want, but don't get all pissy about it. If you get mad at someone that hunts big bucks and not just meat hunts, fine, keep it to yourself. Who really cares.
Iowa is a great place to live and Hunt. Don't rip on us because we are an agricultural state, we keep the country going. If you are so jealous of our "PEN HUNTING" and fields and large deer sizes and numbers, than move here, sounds like if your job doesn't let you hunt alot it sucks and you need a new one.
It is not our job to decide the fate of a deer based on what we think someone else will do, no matter who you think you are. Just do what you want to, don't get so bent, and maybe it is yourself that should "MATURE"!!!!
Now, shoot straight, have fun, and remember we are all one larger family we hunters.
Just worry about yourself!!!
Don't get bent over "OPINIONS" because they are like Edited for skirting the profanity filter,1st warning. , everyone has one, and there isn't a darn thing you can do about it. Do what you want, but don't get all pissy about it. If you get mad at someone that hunts big bucks and not just meat hunts, fine, keep it to yourself. Who really cares.
Iowa is a great place to live and Hunt. Don't rip on us because we are an agricultural state, we keep the country going. If you are so jealous of our "PEN HUNTING" and fields and large deer sizes and numbers, than move here, sounds like if your job doesn't let you hunt alot it sucks and you need a new one.
It is not our job to decide the fate of a deer based on what we think someone else will do, no matter who you think you are. Just do what you want to, don't get so bent, and maybe it is yourself that should "MATURE"!!!!
Now, shoot straight, have fun, and remember we are all one larger family we hunters.
Just worry about yourself!!!
11-30-2006, 04:40 PM
#326
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan/Ohio
Posts: 11,682
RE: little ones make big ones
ORIGINAL: atlasman
Thanks..............didn't see any spikers.........or bucks. Had 5 deer eating right under my stand for about 30 minutes though.
It was weird............2 big does with 3 little ones. Hate to see that this late in the season. They should have been chased off by now.
Even worse............already filled my doe tag [:@]
Oh well...........good show.
ORIGINAL: MOTOWNHONKEY
Good luck with that spiker Atlas. Atleast you can just throw him over your shoulder after you gut him. If you get thirsty just lick the milk off it's mouth.
Good luck with that spiker Atlas. Atleast you can just throw him over your shoulder after you gut him. If you get thirsty just lick the milk off it's mouth.
Thanks..............didn't see any spikers.........or bucks. Had 5 deer eating right under my stand for about 30 minutes though.
It was weird............2 big does with 3 little ones. Hate to see that this late in the season. They should have been chased off by now.
Even worse............already filled my doe tag [:@]
Oh well...........good show.
11-30-2006, 05:19 PM
#328
Site Buck Guru
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Posts: 5,922
RE: little ones make big ones
ORIGINAL: Talondale
Hey, I'm thorough, what can I say?
PS. This is just a Novella.
ORIGINAL: MOTOWNHONKEY
Talondale, does every reply have to be a frekin novel?
Talondale, does every reply have to be a frekin novel?
PS. This is just a Novella.
Carry on 
