Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
07-30-2006, 08:48 AM
#111
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Heaven IA USA
Posts: 2,597
RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
Ahh... a true pain in the azzz crotchetty fella that speaks his mind. I love it. Welcome to the board Stealthy.
I think any hunting obsession, be it killing a big buck, killing any buck, killing with a certain weapon,or even killing anything is just fine for hunting as long as we recognize that not everyone is obsessed and certainly not everyone shares the same obsession. IMO the harm/corruption begins when a hunter or group of hunters decide that their particular obsession should be everyone's and start trying to push their view on others.
So you'retelling me that Cheryl back in highschool was bad and ruined $ex for me for all time? So that's what it was?/?[&:][8D]
07-30-2006, 09:31 AM
#112
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,796
RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
Well I might as well throw in my 2 cents. First of all, is bowhunting really any more corrupt than the man corrupting his own hunt? I believe there are a lot of good guys on here and abroad that would never corrupt their own hunt. If you allow a fellow hunter to corrupt your hunt then that is an different issue all together. You may want to "not" hunt with such people. A big buck is just a pride thing if that is ALL you are after. If you are hunting deer to kill the biggest animal with the most horns, YOU ARE A TROPHY HUNTER. If you hunt to enjoy the sport as a whole and possibly kill a good buck, doe, spike or whatever, You are nothing more, nothing less, than a hunter. If you hunt ranched, canned, penned, entrapped deer, you are supporting someone elses livelihood in an attempt to kill a trophy buck in which you can be PRIDEFUL of. NOT, I repeat, NOT a hunter, but a bragger. Someone said on here earlier, everyone always wants the biggest, best, ect. . It's called competition. Competition brings pride. Pride brings boasting. Boasting brings a Better-than-You attitude. That Better-than-You attitude brings,... You guessed it..CORRUPTION. Not just to the sport of bowhunting but to all who take part in such "hunting". OK, So there is my 2 cents. Adios Amigos, So long ding dong, ect, ect....
LT
LT
07-30-2006, 01:52 PM
#113
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 2,435
RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
ORIGINAL: stealthycatapithicus
cool, you have no problems then with crossbows in archery season ?
you have no problems with poison pods for arrows ?
you don't mind if I lob 125 yard shots at deer and elk ?
Want an anaology ?
The harm or corruption of sex begins when a person or group of persons decide that their particular way should be everyones and try to push their views on everyone as well.
Good anology right ? Well then why should you tellMr child pornographer that his little obeseeion doesn't fall into the lines of what is and isn't acceptable ? Wht should you try and push your views on him ?
Because we both know he's wrong, don't we ?
IMO the harm/corruption begins when a hunter or group of hunters decide that their particular obsession should be everyone's and start trying to push their view on others
you have no problems with poison pods for arrows ?
you don't mind if I lob 125 yard shots at deer and elk ?
Want an anaology ?
The harm or corruption of sex begins when a person or group of persons decide that their particular way should be everyones and try to push their views on everyone as well.
Good anology right ? Well then why should you tellMr child pornographer that his little obeseeion doesn't fall into the lines of what is and isn't acceptable ? Wht should you try and push your views on him ?
Because we both know he's wrong, don't we ?
08-01-2006, 02:16 AM
#114
Site Bouncer
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 4,099
RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
ORIGINAL: Antler Eater
I agree.....Welcome back Data, missed ya around here!
Me thinks this catapithicus fella is not unfamiliar to our ranks. His style is much like one of the other "cats" from the past.
I agree.....Welcome back Data, missed ya around here!
08-01-2006, 02:33 AM
#116
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6
RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
I guess I was making the "wild" assumption that everyone understoodmy responsewas about "hunting" obsessions and "legal" ones at that.
The thread is aboutthe obsession some have with shooting big bucks being harmfull to the sport so as far as I'm concerned your supossed analogy with sex and pornographyis just nuts! You seem to want to take this down an ethics path.
It's a no brainer that an obsession with some illegal, illicit or unethicalbehavior is harmfull.
Was that harmful ?
I kept a 15 1/2" trout in 16" trout waters because I gill hooked it and it was dead shortly after landing it.
Was that harmful ? It was illegal.
That's just not what we're talking about. A single minded pursuit of a big buck is something that islegal and ethical and in fact is something most hunters, though not obsessed with the idea, do indeed aspire to.
Take the two examples above. Now, compare them with a guy who buys a compound on Monday, practices 3 days, hunts on Saturday and wounds 2 does in the morning, never finds them, then uses his 1 tag in the evening to kill a young buck.
Now Sylvan ........... you tell which 3, in order, is most ethical.
After you place the slob hunter in the last example at the bottom, we can then go on to talk about how legal what that slob did. We can also go into a nice long chat about EBAY "hunts", preseve "hunts" and chasing "wildlife" about a 100 acre pen and how legal all that is, how "ethical" it is, and the impacts it all has on the sport of hunting.
08-01-2006, 06:57 AM
#117
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lake County, Il
Posts: 2,205
RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
Am I missing something? Is holding out for a big buck just allowing the younger ones to reach maturity and allowing more bucks to get BIG? How is that wrong or corrupt? Kill a doe or two for meat and hope for a big buck. If you're new to the sport kill anything legal. I killed a nice 9-point last year,I'm not going to shoot a 4-point, I'm gonna let him walk. Is this corrupt or in some way wrong?
08-01-2006, 07:19 AM
#118
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 314
RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
ORIGINAL: stealthycatapithicus
davidmil
There is something wrong with "hunting" when you can go to EBAY and bid on your choice of gauranteed kill game animals.
I personally thinkwe need to step back and evaluatemuzzleload hunting when your "muzzleloader" is patterned off a Winchester rifle, uses a powder pack, bullets and primers for fire, and is accurate to 250-300 yards
I personally thinkwe need to step back and think aboutbowhunting when your compounds can make you shoot 6" groups at 80-100 yard.
But if I step back ......... no one steps with me.
Human need for easier, better, quicker, faster with less trouble, worry, practice ......... THAT is what hunting has become.
Its not about lets scout for 180 days, build stands, comraderie with the friends and family, train dogs, practice with equipment, hone our skills, and then go out and match our wits against a purely wild animals for weeks of hunting that might end with no tags filled.
No, todays world wants weapons that are super easy to become accurate with. They want ATv's to avoid walking, scouting cameras to avoid having to learn to read good deer sign, fences to avoid having to chase wild deer, mechanical heads to avoid having to fine tune a bow, an EBAY auctioned off elk to avoid having to go to Colorado and chase one, they want big bucks, opening day, as close to gauranteed as you can get.
And someone REALLY thinks they can come here and argue hunting hasn't been corrupted ?
Seriously ?
davidmil
There is something wrong with "hunting" when you can go to EBAY and bid on your choice of gauranteed kill game animals.
I personally thinkwe need to step back and evaluatemuzzleload hunting when your "muzzleloader" is patterned off a Winchester rifle, uses a powder pack, bullets and primers for fire, and is accurate to 250-300 yards
I personally thinkwe need to step back and think aboutbowhunting when your compounds can make you shoot 6" groups at 80-100 yard.
But if I step back ......... no one steps with me.
Human need for easier, better, quicker, faster with less trouble, worry, practice ......... THAT is what hunting has become.
Its not about lets scout for 180 days, build stands, comraderie with the friends and family, train dogs, practice with equipment, hone our skills, and then go out and match our wits against a purely wild animals for weeks of hunting that might end with no tags filled.
No, todays world wants weapons that are super easy to become accurate with. They want ATv's to avoid walking, scouting cameras to avoid having to learn to read good deer sign, fences to avoid having to chase wild deer, mechanical heads to avoid having to fine tune a bow, an EBAY auctioned off elk to avoid having to go to Colorado and chase one, they want big bucks, opening day, as close to gauranteed as you can get.
And someone REALLY thinks they can come here and argue hunting hasn't been corrupted ?
Seriously ?
Well, what about the average Joe? My family, friends, and I are average people who make an average living. We don't have the latest equiptment, or the fastest. Yes, this year we will shoot muzzleloader as well. Only because we have saved up money and were able to purchace them. We scout quiet frequently. Not with game cams, but actually getting out there. Yes, we do have an atv, but we walk much of that land.
My son is 13 and my daughter almost 9. Both of them have a bow and shoot archery. My son saved up money and bought a lifetime hunting license. We are teaching them the values and ethics of hunting along with the need for practice. My children are also in a youth archery league at our local rod and gun. My views of the average hunter are mirrored in the parents of these children as well.
So again, I say that the obsession to kill big bucks is not corrupting hunting. I think it is the societal need to have the bigger and better thing than the next person. Look around. Society has been pushing that for years. Look at your kids and grandkids. To be "popular" many need to have the latest and greatest!
"stepping off the soap box"
08-01-2006, 07:59 AM
#119
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 457
RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
Well said, LCG
Actually it was my understanding that this was a discussion about one particularaspect of the hunting industryhaving a beneficial or detrimental impact on the sport of bowhunting. Or am I reading the thread topic wrong?
Guys like this always want to make mountains over molehills. Reminds me of the guy that called us all hypocrits for boycotting sponsors of the WHA but not boycotting HNI when it was "outed" that they had a sponsor with highfences.
I would like to shoot a big buck, sure. But I know I'll never be in the P&Y or B&C books because of where I hunt. I could spend little to no more money to hunt somewhere that does have those kind of bucks, but I choose to have a sentimentally richer experience by partaking of the family traditions and family heritage that goes with hunting on family land. But I still hold out for at least a nice 8 point. I let the young ones walk. Am I corrupting bowhunting? Of course not.
Do I preach from the all-holy-QDM-Bible, no. Do I abscribe to some of their more logical concepts, yes. Do I brow-beat other forum members for disagreeing with my views on the world, NO.
However, if you're a guest on our place, you follow the rules, 8's or better, spikes or barren does. If for no other reason than respect for the property owner and their rules. But that's just the way I was raised, to respect the land, its owner(s),the animals, your neighbors, and yourself.
Hunting is hunting. We're not debating that here. Is Trophy Hunting corrupting bowhunting? I don't think so. Is it driving bowhunting farther and farther into an elitist, my D!@& is bigger than yours, commercialized industry? Yes. But that began long before crossbows during archery season became a debate. While the everyman hunted for meat, the social elite in nearly all cultures, based their manliness on the size of horns on whatever animal's head. This goes back to B.C. Times, and probably started with the cavemen.
I can hear it now... "oog... ug ug ahg... ahhhhh *smack* oog oog oog!? hahahahaha"
Your concern for the sport is admirable, and I agree in theory. But in all practicality, trophy hunting is here to stay wether you or I like it, or not. The only thing we can do is teach ournew hunters and childrenbetter. Enstill in them, a self-awareness and a self-confidence in the things we teach them that they will not be "shock-n-awed" into the horn porn culture.
ORIGINAL: stealthycatasaurus
Isn't that what this discussion is about ? What is and isn't hunting ?
The thread is aboutthe obsession some have with shooting big bucks being harmfull to the sport so as far as I'm concerned your supossed analogy with sex and pornographyis just nuts! You seem to want to take this down an ethics path.
Guys like this always want to make mountains over molehills. Reminds me of the guy that called us all hypocrits for boycotting sponsors of the WHA but not boycotting HNI when it was "outed" that they had a sponsor with highfences.
I would like to shoot a big buck, sure. But I know I'll never be in the P&Y or B&C books because of where I hunt. I could spend little to no more money to hunt somewhere that does have those kind of bucks, but I choose to have a sentimentally richer experience by partaking of the family traditions and family heritage that goes with hunting on family land. But I still hold out for at least a nice 8 point. I let the young ones walk. Am I corrupting bowhunting? Of course not.
Do I preach from the all-holy-QDM-Bible, no. Do I abscribe to some of their more logical concepts, yes. Do I brow-beat other forum members for disagreeing with my views on the world, NO.
However, if you're a guest on our place, you follow the rules, 8's or better, spikes or barren does. If for no other reason than respect for the property owner and their rules. But that's just the way I was raised, to respect the land, its owner(s),the animals, your neighbors, and yourself.
Hunting is hunting. We're not debating that here. Is Trophy Hunting corrupting bowhunting? I don't think so. Is it driving bowhunting farther and farther into an elitist, my D!@& is bigger than yours, commercialized industry? Yes. But that began long before crossbows during archery season became a debate. While the everyman hunted for meat, the social elite in nearly all cultures, based their manliness on the size of horns on whatever animal's head. This goes back to B.C. Times, and probably started with the cavemen.
I can hear it now... "oog... ug ug ahg... ahhhhh *smack* oog oog oog!? hahahahaha"
Your concern for the sport is admirable, and I agree in theory. But in all practicality, trophy hunting is here to stay wether you or I like it, or not. The only thing we can do is teach ournew hunters and childrenbetter. Enstill in them, a self-awareness and a self-confidence in the things we teach them that they will not be "shock-n-awed" into the horn porn culture.
08-01-2006, 08:17 AM
#120
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rural Kansas... Where Life is Good
Posts: 4,139
RE: Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
Is the obsession to shoot big bucks corrupting bowhunting?
No, but it's currupting my steady sleeping at night.
Can't wait until season!!!
No, but it's currupting my steady sleeping at night.
Can't wait until season!!!