Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

Missed a buck last night at 17 yards. I am willing to accept the fact that nerves and/or lack of time to get COMPLETELY set and comfortable I am sure were a factor but I was pretty calm because I have seen this buck many times and it's almost expected by now so I don't think it was fever. I did have to draw and shoot faster then I would have liked so if anything I would say maybe I missed my anchor point if I had to guess.


Anyways, my arrow struck a small old dead rotten tree root the size of my pinky finger which made a loud THUD leading me to believe I hit the deer. When we pulled the arrow this morning the Muzzy head was a mess. Bent about 60 degrees and the tip was dulled like it hit a brick wall. I checked for a rock near the root and found nothing.

I have NEVER been pleased with the flight consistency of these heads and they will be not be on my arrows any more.

I will be getting new heads today.


Way too many flyers and if it can't handle a small rotten tree root then I don't even want to imagine what a shoulder bone would do to it.



I WAS shooting Muzzy 90 grain 4 blade in case anyone was wondering.

Tried everything to eliminate random flyers but never could.

My bow is pulling at 63lbs and slinging at 250fps


Just my experience. I am sure Muzzy's have performed well for a large number of you that will read this because I bought them based on reputation which as we all know is very good.

They will no longer be part of my hunting gear.

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>but it was a little dark and I am not POSITIVE where the arrow struck. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
You miss a buck in the dark, and now your saying it was the heads fault? <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Anyways, my arrow struck a small old dead rotten tree root the size of my pinky finger which made a loud THUD leading me to believe I hit the deer. When we pulled the arrow this morning the Muzzy head was a mess. Bent about 60 degrees and the tip was dulled like it hit a brick wall. I checked for a rock near the root and found nothing.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I'd keep looking for that rock. Old dead tree roots the size of your pinky don't do that type of damage to a Muzzy.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Tried everything to eliminate random flyers but never could.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>Then why are you useing them in the first place?

I won't bother to go into the chastizing (sp?) you gave other members in your post last night when they reccomended you exhaust every effort to recover this buck before hunting again.

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

I shot a buck this year with a muzzy 100 grain 3 blade at 28 yards about 3 inches below the spine on the entrance and came out through the opposite shoulder blade. The arrow just about passed completely through (only about 2 inches left in the deer) after going through the opposite shoulder blade. After further inspection of the broadhead, it could be reused. Except for the fact the the blades would be dull. There is no apparent damage the head at all.

As far as flight consistancey goes, I used to shoot Thunderhead 100's (which I really liked also) and the Muzzy's fly just as well. I was able to group the broadheads out to 40 yards.

The buck that I shot had no lungs left and the arrow knocked the deer off of its feet instantly. The deer then got up and ran about 30 yards and expired.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience, but maybe the flight consitancy has to do with tuning or arrow flight more than the broadhead itself.

This is just my experience with Muzzy's.

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

I have a hunting buddy who had a similar problem.At thirty yards his arrows,muzzy 125's were darting everywhere.Of course he was shooting 275 FPS with 4&quot; straight fletch....duh.He had been shooting mechanicals for several years with no problems.Something about that muzzy just turned him on I guess,so he tried em.Needless to say he did'nt want to refletch his arrows so he went back.That bow would shoot a bullet hole through paper by the way.I think the arrows were just knuckleballing due to the straight fletch and big broadhead.One little glitch on the release and off they would go.I don't think they fly as good as hunderheads(JMHO) because they are not as streamlined.IMHO if you cant get a thunderhead to fly well,you've got issues.

Billy

WHACKEM N STACKEM

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

last night my daughter killed her first deer with muzzy 100 4 blade. a pass through shot and had no effect on the arrow. keep looking for the rock

hunt on hunt hard eat well

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

Sorry dude i dont think there is anything wrong with your Muzzy's!!!

I think that you might want to take a bowhunters education course ASAP!!!!!

And also Larry Wise has a book for ya call Tuning the compound bow. You should try and find it and read it!!!!!!

Sorry for the harsh words but people like you are the reason i think all states should make it manditory for a hunter to take a bowhunters education coures!!!!



Edited by - Mr. Longbeard on 11/03/2002 12:16:28

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

I don't know about that.I took a Bow hunter education course so I could hunt a NWR.When one instructor said he liked serrated blades and for his arrow to stay in the deer so it would keep cutting I knew I was in trouble!

Billy

WHACKEM N STACKEM

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

Sorry you missed your deer.<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>

Even more sorry you are blaming the broadhead for your troubles.<img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>

My two friends and I have similar experiences with the Muzzys. They are... 1. field point accuracy out to 40 yards, 2. great performance on game, 3. Short, successful blood trails.

Sounds like you are having problems with a. tuning, b. insert alignment, or c. form inconsistency.

A new broadhead may solve your problems, but then again, you may also win the Publisher's Clearinghouse grand prize.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Avoid the inevitable until it is absolutely unavoidable!

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

Well, can a muzzy bend, you bet! can it bend on a tree root, yes it can. This can happen to any broadhead, but I suspect that you may have hit somthing a bit harder, and with those &quot;random flyers&quot; I would bet you have an arrow or two that is not setup perfectly, and it also sounds like you don't have enough fletching control. Are you using helical fletching of at least 4&quot; in length? I have bent and broken most every broadhead out there and I can tell you that Muzzys are some of the toughest made, as well as very accurate.

TAKE YOUR KIDS HUNTING AND YOU WON'T BE HUNTING FOR YOUR KIDS

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

interesting last post Cajun...just &quot;why would you be in trouble?&quot;

I prefer pass throughs but accecpt the fact that on critters like moose, grizzly/brown bears, I may not, with my stickbows! Pretty dang close but have I yet to punch through a moose and not split ribs!

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

Well when the guy TEACHING the class stated he PREFFERED his arrow not to pass thru I wondered how much you could actually learn from this class.I don't know of anyone who prefers to not have a complete pass thru.As it turns out the class was a TOTALL waste of my time.I also felt sorry for the young guys taking the class.Then the guy stated he had to switch to feathers after switching to a release aid and did'nt know why he could'nt get good arrow flight with vanes.Well he was shooting a full helical and a shoot thru rest..duh.It just amazed me that this guy was TEACHING bowhunter education.Sorry to digress from the original post.Atlasman I would swap the heads on the &quot;fliers&quot; to a different arrow.This would eleminate a bad arrow,insert etc.

Billy

WHACKEM N STACKEM

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

That's a case of an instructor not sticking to the well laid out lesson plans and policies. When they start trying to convince the class that THEIR way is better it can only lead to misinformation. AND... in this case the guys theory is whacko. Some people.<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle> The IBEF instructs that NOTHING beats a SHARP broadhead. I believe it says passthrough for sure.

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

I shot a deer 2 weeks ago, and I was using a muzzy 100 gr 3 blade. it went in the right side back a bit and blew through the left shoulder and stuck into the ground about 5 inches. I like the muzzy bh. all I have to say is PRACTICE

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

Exactly David! I cant rememeber if it says pass through for sure or not though, I'll have to get my book and check it out. I havent tought many classes in the past year now..been to busy hunting and fishing LOL!

A pass through is the optimal in most bowhunters eyes..but there are many folks I know and a few I respect as bowhunters both known and not, that would rather leave an arrow inside to &quot;do more damage&quot; which btw it does. Not that I prefer it but it has happened....I have seen a caribou hind quarter devasted by an errant shot...a moose front leg almost thrashed from a 2 blade head...the list could go on and on.

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

If your arrow rest,nocking point and broad head alignment are all tuned right you will never have a flyers and in most cases you shouldn't have to move your pins much from field points to broad heads. I shoot 4&quot; strait fletchings and muzzy 100 gr. 3 blade broad heads with no problem. If you are not sure how to tune your arrow rest and nocking point take it to your local pro shop trust me it will be worth the 5 or 6 dollars to have this done. I definetly agree with every one this is not broad heads fault.

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

I know how you feel about missing the buck, but not about your opinion of the Muzzys.....I love Muzzy 100 grain 3 blades.....They fly just like my field points....I'm also pleased with the way they resharpen.........I haven't hit a tree or rock however, just flesh and dirt.....I hope you find what makes you group well....

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>You miss a buck in the dark, and now your saying it was the heads fault?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>


Where did I say the head caused my miss??



<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I'd keep looking for that rock. Old dead tree roots the size of your pinky don't do that type of damage to a Muzzy.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>


Exactly my point. I went back and dug with a hand spade deeper then the arrow was sunk--------no rock, just roots--the biggest of which is the size of my little finger. That is all the proof I need.



<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Then why are you useing them in the first place?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>


Because 90% of the time they fly fine. At $30 a pack I am not about to sample every head out there as a process of elimination. I chose instead to work with what I had and mark and remove arrows, swap heads, try multiple blade configurations and multiple nock configurations as well(I shoot a drop away). I never managed to totally eliminate the flyers.


<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I won't bother to go into the chastizing (sp?) you gave other members in your post last night when they reccomended you exhaust every effort to recover this buck before hunting again.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>


Are you saying I chastised other members for saying I should look for my deer?? I hope not because you can't read if that's the case.

I did point out that out of a whole long story full of information and requests for advice as usual the only thing I got a response to was a sentence I worded poorly so it read like I was gonna hunt again without looking for this deer. God, the freakin' ethics police around here are so quick to sniff out ANYTHING even the least bit negative and pounce on it that new posters here are probably afraid to ask questions because they see how quick the hammer drops.

I was still worked up and my mind was replaying the scene over and over. Forgive me oh flawless one, I typed something wrong. I got the entire deer story right but no one seemed to care about that.

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Sorry dude i dont think there is anything wrong with your Muzzy's!!!

My proshop begs to differ---I will explain later


I think that you might want to take a bowhunters education course ASAP!!!!!


why even post something so dumb??


And also Larry Wise has a book for ya call Tuning the compound bow. You should try and find it and read it!!!!!!


Ah, the predictable response of &quot;your bow is not tuned&quot; I would tell you all the time and effort put in making sure my bow is tuned perfectly but you won't believe me anyway so why bother


Sorry for the harsh words but people like you are the reason i think all states should make it manditory for a hunter to take a bowhunters education coures!!!!


People like me?? What the hell does that even mean?? The class IS manditory in my state so what is your point?? Let me guess, you shoot Muzzy heads and they work well for you so anyone else that they don't work for is wrong............GROW UP


<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Even more sorry you are blaming the broadhead for your troubles.<img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>


When did I blame the head for my trouble???



Sounds like you are having problems with a. tuning, b. insert alignment, or c. form inconsistency.


a. NO b. NO c. ANYONE who says they are in PERFECT form every time they are leaning, twisting, or angling to get a clean shot out of a treestand is lying so I don't see your point. I am sure my form is not PERFECT on EVERY shot I take, and unless you are an Olympic archer yours is not either. If the broadhead is so sensitive that any micro flaw in form will send a flyer I DON'T WANT IT because everything doesn't happen in slow motion in the woods and the deer don't always appear where you hope and when they do they don't exactly sit around posing for you to get a good clean easy shot.



<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

First of all I would like to know why everyone is saying I am blaming the MUZZY head for my miss?? I did say I have never been happy with the consistency of flight and I am sure not happy with how it got beat up by dirt and a skinny old tree root. The damage taken is the main reason why I will no longer shoot them.


I am very happy for all the guys that MUZZY's work like a charm for......don't jump on me for telling my experience just because it doesn't match yours.



I took my bow to the shop today and had it checked by the shop guys just to make sure I wasn't missing something and all 3 of them agreed my bow was perfect as is. I then told them why I was having them check it out and they said &quot;That sucks&quot; about the deer but the bow is solid. I then showed them the MUZZY head and they all shook their heads and told me I am the 6th or 7th guy that reported MUZZY failure this season. Two other guys brought in the damaged heads and in their opinion they think somehing has to be up with the MUZZY heads this year. They said they are not sure if MUZZY changed anything or if this is a widespread issue but they have NEVER seen it before concerning MUZZY heads which they HIGHLY recommend.......along with thunderheads.


I am sure I will get drilled for telling that story........don't really know why but I am sure I will.

Again, just my experience and I thought I would share.

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

atlasman I am not trying to bash or insult you here honestly I am just helping. If you are having trouble with getting your broad heads to fly there is some thing wrong with your set up. Whith out looking at the bow personaly it is hard to tell but we are just saying what you should start with to get your problem fixed and get you back in the woods. Paper tune then adjust as needed if aluminun arrows check for strait see if maybe a fletching is hitting a cable or maybe the riser make sure all broad heads are turned the same way with your fletchings make sure your peep and sight are not loose. If then that doesn't help maybe it is you the way your shooting ( jerking the trigger dropping the bow looking around to see the shot creeping) it may help to have your local pro shop look at your bow it will only cost a few bucks. The reason why people seemed kinda harsh I think was becouse you have a problem with your bow and you just immediatly blame your broad heads instead of your self or the way the bow is tuned. Try what I wrote above and if it still doen't help feel free to e-mail me and I will try my best to help you farther.

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

Atlas, not knocking your or your proshop...but I hope its better then about the 70% or more of the &quot;pro&quot; shops I have been in around the USA! I gotta say only a handful of them really impressed me. Maybe its just personal but some of them dont even belong driving to work, let alone shooting bows of any kind lol! I cant critize you for your choice of equip as it works for most...but as the saying goes, if the show dont fit, dont where it...there is just to many others out there to give a hoot what works for someone else! Besides, thats just part of the fun.....making excuses to buy new gear LOL!

I am sure any head will fail if hit right due to there design. WHere some may take a head on very well, others might crumble, others may take a glance and curl all to heck but some may stay straight and true. 5er would be the man to ask as he is the b head guru....btw, I forgot to send those heads 5, they are boxed up on my arrow bench...I am going to send them out tomorrow...shame on me! Been fishing, and running like a mad man....I thought this unemployment was supposed to be a break, I am doing more now then when I worked all week...&gt;DOH&lt;

Hopefully you can get on that buck again.....its almost fun missing after a few days, think about it, atleast where I grew up, you could only shoot one! Once ya shot him, you're done! Now you get more time in the woods, more opportunities and more importantly...MORE FUN! I'll tell ya though, its a biatch trying to stew up those oak saplings...never can quite get them to soften up enough to eat....best of luck

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

hey atlasman if thay are muzzy 125 gr send then to me if u don't want them i shot a big for this year with muzzy 125 gr and i will never buy another broad head i got 3 with the bow and 2 with muzzys
i love them thay are great...... good luck finding the rock i hope u find it or the brick wall....j/k muzzys don't brake like that un less u really hit something........








al bowmansville ny

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

Dont give up on muzzys yet.
Try going up to 115 grain 4 blade.
90 grain wont fly worth a darn out
of my setup either but 115 grain
will eat up the bullseye. The fact]
that im using easton 2315's and shooting
68 pounds might be the reason the lighter
head wont fly right..
Ive killed over 20 deer in the past
7 years with muzzys after experimenting
the previous 20 with different makes and
models of broadheads that dissappointed me
in one way or another.
To sum it all up. Experiment with different
broadhead weights with the same models.
A difference in 10 or 15 grains maybe
all it takes.
As far as the bent tip and blades, I dont know.
I have shot a few deer through the shoulder
with the muzzys and only had the blades bent
once. The thinner/lighter composition of the
90 grain maybe why yours messed up.
Remember that bowhunting is a very personal
sport. What works for some wont necessarilly
work with your setup.

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
hey atlasman if thay are muzzy 125 gr send then to me if u don't want them
al bowmansville ny
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Sorry Al but like I said in my first post they are 90 gr 4 blade

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

Atlasman; I shoot the 100 grain 4 blade muzzy broadheads. I was sold on the arrow flight of the broadhead when I shot the first one and it hit the dot dead center. I have harvested 3 deer using these broadheads so far this year.I did suffer from the fever on one and I believe that my shooting form went to #^%$ on it. I ended up with a spine shot, far off from where I was intending to hit. The head was lodged well into the spine, now the blades did break off and were lodged in the spine but I was able to remove the head ferrule from the spine and the head point was still straight and sharp and the ferrule was still straight but where the broadhead screws into the arrow was bent.I have been very impressed with the broadheads performance overall. The only thing to blame on my spine shot was my shooting form, not my broadhead or my equiptment. I shoot a draw of 57lbs and a fps of 249 with arrow weight of 344 grains, have you tried using the 100 or 125 grain heads with your setup? You may end up with a improved arrow flight and more KE, but that all depends on your arrow type and weight,fletching, FOC etc.... Im sorry to hear about your head and the miss of your deer. benhuntin made a good point, I think. I havent experienced the kind of head damage you speak of, but I am also using a heavier grain head.

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Atlas, not knocking your or your proshop...but I hope its better then about the 70% or more of the &quot;pro&quot; shops I have been in around the USA! I gotta say only a handful of them really impressed me. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>


I know what you mean man. I use this shop because it has a good mix of young and older guys that are all friendly and share advice and knowledge to help each other towards the same goal. They are all nice guys and are not biased towards any equipment or brands. They tell it like it is and they do a very good job with my bow when I need help.

I have seen more then a couple &quot;proshops&quot; and I trust these guys the most from what I have to pick from. They have never let me down yet.



I really don't know what the answer is. Maybe my arrows are not a good match for the 4 blade MUZZY. I will post my setup to see if anyone has any ideas.........because I am fresh out :)


63lbs
250fps
3 right helical(not full...2 degree I believe) 4&quot; Duravanes
Beman ICS Hunters
NAP 2000 Drop Away rest
Tru-Ball release used right on string(no loop)
Peep

Trying to think of anything else that could possibly effect my arrow flight but right now I can't......let me know if I left anything out that may help.


I get bored shooting field tips because 30 yards and in I can stack arrows all day. In fact I started shooting at the eyes on my targets just for excitement by the end of summer. I have no desire to shoot at an animal over 30 yards so I am all set there.

From the minute I installed my MUZZY's I was getting good but not great groups. They did not fly as well as my field tips but that was OK with me as long as they remained consistent.......they did not.

More aggravating then the larger group size was the flyers I was getting at totally random times. I tried everything that I know to fix this problem. I like many of you immediately thought my bow was not tuned as well as I thought. I checked the nock point, center shot and made sure everything was tightened down then cracked out the paper. When the flyers were still there I started checking arrows and vane/blade configurations. I marked arrows and removed some that I thought were getting more flyers then others and when that didn't work I started to swap heads from arrow to arrow just to be sure that a minor insert flaw or maybe even arrow difference between arrows (weight/straightness)could be an issue. The flyers remained. I now started rotating my nock in every possible setting because I shoot a drop away rest so it doesn't matter so why not try it......didn't help. I coated my riser and rest to make sure I wasn't getting fletch contact......nothing.

The most frustrating thing of all is putting my field points in and stacking arrows all day long. I know they don't fly the same but geeeeeeeesh man it shouldn't be this tough to get a damn head to fly straight reliably.


The inconsistent flight is troubling no doubt, but I have tried my best to fight through it........the head getting punished by a rotten tree root was just the last straw for me.

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

How often do you guys shoot your BH's??

I shoot A LOT

Just curious because I know more then one guy who shoots a half dozen shots and assumes all is well.

I on the other hand have shot hunderds of shots with these MUZZY's and yes I have had periods of 10-20 shots without a problem and if I quit then I would be under the false immpression that the heads were flying great.

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

Let me see...you have errant shots sometimes, but can't eliminate certain arrows, inserts OR BHs??

It's not your bow, as you and your pro-shop have examined it??

Only leaves one option...form inconsistencies.

JMO, but if you can't narrow certain arrows/inserts OR broadheads from a well-tuned setup, then its human error, not mechanical.

Are you overpracticing and punching the trigger, resulting in a few errant shots??

If you have some excellent groups for 1-20 shots, then some terrible groups and bad shots....well, you be the judge of the problem, but from an outside view there's only one possibility, and that's form.

S&R

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

So your saying the most likely answer is that I have the skill and form to shoot tight groups out to 30 yards yet somehow randomly I just lose it completely and shoot with such bad form that a flyer that misses the mark by anywhere from 8&quot;--2' results?? Something that I can count on one hand that has happened with my field points in thousands of shots now occurs sometimes as often as 25%.

That's logical.


I don't miss by 2 feet..........not to mention that the flyers are random in direction as well.

So now I guess sometimes I am choking the grip high, low, left, right, and have a different anchor point each time.

I have 3 anchor points and I don't know anyone that misses high, left, right, and low from shot to shot but OK....if you say so :)

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

Hey atlasman, your not alone in making the switch. I switched for other reasons and will probably never go back.
But I knew better than to try to post my thoughts about muzzies here because there are some die hard loyalist that love them, I used to be one of them. They have a large following for a reason- they're good broadheads. But if you find you don't care for them anymore, switch to something else and enjoy seeing what the new product can do for you. I have and now look foreward to my next SHORT bloodtrail :) !!

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

I am probably not as &quot;technically sound&quot; on this is some of the guys that have already posted to you, but I would guess that because your errant shots are not consistant in one direction or the other, it points even more to a less than perfect release or form. Don't get me wrong, I am not (and I don't think anyone else is either) putting you down in any way. I have always shot either Muzzy or Thunderhead, and I notice with myself that if I jerk the trigger or torque the bow even slightly while shooting my broadheads, the amount the shot will be off is double or triple that if I were shooting field tips. I don't know, tough situation to figure out. Have you marked the arrows when you get a flyer to see if it happens to be the same one or two arrows doing it? I had a similar problem last year and ended up taking a marker with me, and every time an arrow didn't group with the others (and I felt I had a good release) I would put a mark on the arrow. Might be worth a try.

--Sign In Chinese Pet Store: &quot;Buy one dog, get one flea...&quot;--

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

Let me see if I've got this straight..... Atlasman posts that he hit a rotten tree root with a Muzzy 4 blade and it didn't survive the hit very well. We then proceed to berate him about being a terrible bowhunter with a completely un-tuned bow. What am I missing here?

I'm amazed that we would rather believe that he is a bold-faced liar than believe that he might have had a defective broadhead. Whatever happened to comradery and respect for a fellow bowhunter?

Atasman, sorry you had a bad experience and I hope you get everything worked out.

Oh, by the way, my quiver is filled with nothing but Muzzy broadheads.

Turc

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

If you can't narrow the problems down to one arrow, one BH or one insert...AND you can shoot the arrows with consistency and precision for 20 shots on some days...then the answer to your question is YES, you must lose it and alter form.

If not, explain to me how a broadhead can perform well with 20 shots on one day and then produce errant shots the very next day?? The broadhead/arrow/insert combination didn't change, your bow set-up remained constant, nobody played with your target...

I guess that only leaves human error...

And yes, broadheads will show form error much moreso than fieldpoints. Changing your anchor point might make a fieldpoint miss the mark by 4&quot;---that same miss might equal a foot with a broadhead.

And I'm also curious, what were your old heads, fixed or mechanical??

And a final question---if you were so unhappy with these BHs target shooting before the season started, then why did they accompany you to the woods for hunting purposes?

In a nutshell, are you positive you don't have any form flaws, and why would you take a chance with these heads if they performed so poorly prior to the season???

S&R

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

Atlasman,
have you tried a different rest? Just curious. Something is not right, or you should get consistent groups. I shoot 5&quot; vanes with good helical and don't have any problems with either 3 or 4 blade 100 Gr. muzzys. It doesn't take much to be out of tune for broadheads. I shoot strictly broadheads, and find that the best method for overall accuracy is to group tune to 50 yards. If you've got a tuning problem it will become evident as you get to around 40 yards. Best of luck in resolving your problem. I've been there and it really shakes your confidence when you get flyers from nowhere. One of my bows was just doing that. I sent it back to my pro shop to get ready for and upcoming hunt and was advised that my sight was loose. Could have sworn I checked it, but it appears that I hadn't. Sometimes its the small things that cause the problem.

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I would guess that because your errant shots are not consistant in one direction or the other, it points even more to a less than perfect release or form. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>


I don't agree. Errors in form tend to be repeated time and time again especially under pressure of a tough shot on a 3D course or on the buck of a lifetime......people are habitual, like a guy that slices on the golf course every time he tries to hit the ball a mile.

I just don't see how I could possibly throw darts arrow after arrow, day after day, month after month and all the sudden I have form so bad that some shots miss the entire target?? Maybe it is just me but I tend to look for what is different first as the most likely cause of the change in performance.......doesn't that seem more logical??? I changed something on my arrow setup and everything else remained the same......after the change, problems start......eliminate the change(put field tips back on) and problem goes away. It seems pretty straight forward to me.



<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I have always shot either Muzzy or Thunderhead, and I notice with myself that if I jerk the trigger or torque the bow even slightly while shooting my broadheads, the amount the shot will be off is double or triple that if I were shooting field tips. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>


And you are OK with that??? So if your groups are 3&quot; at 30 yards(pretty darn good in my book) and you have a micro flaw on release you may hit as much as 9&quot; from your point of aim??? That is not acceptable to me at all. 9&quot; could be the difference in a kill or miss or even worse a crippling wound. I demand more from my equipment then that.



<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Have you marked the arrows when you get a flyer to see if it happens to be the same one or two arrows doing it? I had a similar problem last year and ended up taking a marker with me, and every time an arrow didn't group with the others (and I felt I had a good release) I would put a mark on the arrow. Might be worth a try.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>



With all due respect Indy.......I really do think you are trying to help and have been very polite and I appreciate your input. Your above comment makes me think that you haven't read the thread before commenting.

I have done what you recommend above along with many other things as well to try and fix this situation.

Again, no disrespect intended. It is clear your comments had nothing but good intentions.

Just trying to save you some time <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

First off,don't take this personal.I am only trying to offer possible solutions to your problem.That being said,Form problems are more likely to show up with a broadhead than a fieldpoint.The wings on the broadhead(blades)will be more likely to steer an arrow off course on a bad shot.Especially with straight or slight offset fletching.What kind of bow are you shooting?A low brace height bow aggrivates this problem.I have also seen people have to tune their drop away rests by shortening or lenghtening the cord attached to the cable slide.If the rest is dropping to soon you may not be getting enough guidance to the arrow before the rest drops.This also would make form problems more accute.Weigh all of your finished arrows and broadheads.Find out how close they are.If there are enough differences in weight that could aggrivate the problem.Perhaps your drop away rest is not falling consistently.The cheapest possible solution maybe to try a different broadhead and see if the same problems still exist.I allways had good flight out of thunderheads.You might try those.If the problem still persists,either you have a mechanical problem that is intermittent(I would suspect the rest)or every now and then you are making a bad shot.I do it sometimes myself.Collapsing a little or torquing the bow at the shot.Good luck,these kind of things can drive you crazy.

Billy

WHACKEM N STACKEM

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
If not, explain to me how a broadhead can perform well with 20 shots on one day and then produce errant shots the very next day?? The broadhead/arrow/insert combination didn't change, your bow set-up remained constant, nobody played with your target...

I guess that only leaves human error...<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>


If I could explain why we would not be here discussing this would we??

First of all like I said before the heads have NEVER given me groups as nice as field points. NEVER. However, I accepted the increased group size as part of the fixed head game and lowered my effective range accordingly. Increased group size is one thing.....random misses of up to 2 feet is a whole other ballgame.

All this plus a head that bent like a pretzel in dirt and a small tree root was just too much for me.......Man you act like I am lying or something.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>And yes, broadheads will show form error much moreso than fieldpoints. Changing your anchor point might make a fieldpoint miss the mark by 4&quot;---that same miss might equal a foot with a broadhead.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

I don't want anything in my quiver that has the potential to miss by a foot or more due to a slight change in form. I don't know about you but shooting from a treestand 20 feet up in wind and snow at an animal that just walked out of the last place you thought he would does not always leave you 10 minutes to make sure your in Olympic caliber form before the shot. If I miss my anchor point just slightly I don't expect to have disasterous results.......gross, major errors OK but tiny nit picking micro flaws......come on.


<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>And a final question---if you were so unhappy with these BHs target shooting before the season started, then why did they accompany you to the woods for hunting purposes?

In a nutshell, are you positive you don't have any form flaws, and why would you take a chance with these heads if they performed so poorly prior to the season???<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>




Because all I got was info like you're offering.......It must be you......fixed heads fly different......fix your bow tune......must be bad form......fixed heads magnify bad form blah, blah, blah, blah.

I think I actually became convinced that I was shooting as well as you could shoot a fixed head and I just had to hope I had PERFECT god-like form at the moment of truth. I was willing to accept that because I stubornly kept blaming myself while in the back of mind I always felt I was not to blame.........the damaged head was the kick in the butt I needed.......We will see what happens next.

I bought a pack of WASP mechanicals and some Thunderheads. I will soon know for sure what is the source of this situation.

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I don't agree. Errors in form tend to be repeated time and time again especially under pressure of a tough shot on a 3D course or on the buck of a lifetime......people are habitual, like a guy that slices on the golf course every time he tries to hit the ball a mile.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Well you can't tune a golf club to the golfer. Everyone has some form errors but if they are reproducable like the ones that you are referring to then you can tune around the errors. For example if the way you grip the bow produces torque then you paper tune by hand not from a hooter shooter etc... because the hooter shooter doesn't take into to account how you grip the bow. So to make a long story short if a form error was a &quot;reproducable&quot; error then you would see similar characteristics to your flyers however if they were random form errors then you would have random flyers.

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;

RE: Very disappointed in Muzzy BH performance
 

Atlas,

I was going back through and reading some of what you had to say about what was happening and what others were suggesting.

I did think of something that might be affecting it. What about the spine of your shafts. I know I know, here me out for a second. You might be punching bullets when everthing is perfect which may happen 99% of the time, with the mechs and field points you may never see it. But with those muzzys or any other bigger head you just may. Its just a thought, something that might have been overlooked!