Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

Let me know whether you use a dropaway or a rest that has fletching contact such as a Whisker biscuit. This peep sight thread makes me wonder why people use arrow rests that allow fletching contact.I always hear guys saying that theirs works fine if they use blasers or other types of fletchings. A dropaway works the same with all fletchings. Why would you use these fletching contact arrow rests when a dropaway is the purest form of flight for an arrow to leave your bow? I have a dropaway arrow holder that holds an arrow on and I can even turn my bow upside down and my arrow stays on. I use a Trophy Taker on both of my bows and I have a Parker Productions fall away arrow rest holder on them. NAP archery sells these too. Here is my Bowtech with the bow upside down showing that my arrow is not going anywhere. When I draw the bow it silently and effortlessly releases the arrow. Just curious? I am not dissing you for using a fletching contact rest; just curious as to why.
HCH
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RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

This is off topic of your thread, but what kind of stablizer are you useing? I've never seen one like that before and is it better than the others that are just straight??? I can't help you on your rest question.

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

It is a Bowtech Wildthing stabalizer
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RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

Currently, I use a Drop Zone but will soon be switching to a WB. We all know that fletch contact is bad, it causes bad arrow flight, but that's because only ONE fletch hits the rest. W/ the WB, all 3 hit the biscuit w/ the same force, effectively cancelling each other out. They work very, very well w/ any fletching I've ever used, feathers included.

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

Arrow is still dragging through something affecting speed and flight to a certain degree. Curious as to why you are getting rid of the drop away.
HCH[/align]

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

i use a drop down rest .itsa vital gear. in the down position it holds on to the arrow with two little fingers,when you draw back the liftingaction opens the fingers .its like yousaid i can turn the bow up side down and it stays right there ready to go.
oh buy the way the check went out this morining..... thanks .

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

Yes, the arrow is dragging through it, and yes, you may lose a foot or two per second, but it simply doesn't affect arrow flight. I can shoot a perfect bullet hole, so it must fly just fine.

I'm getting rid of it because it's "too complicated," if that makes sense. The other day while shooting, my draw cord came loose from my cable, rendering the rest useless. Yes, the argument could be made that if you check your equipment regularly, it would have been caught, therefore fixed, before I shot it. Well, I check my bow over everytime I shoot it, and when I started the session, it was fine. All of a sudden, it came undone for whatever reason. That was that. I'm not going to chance that again. I have several friends that shoot the biscuit w/ terrific success, and that simplistic approach is difficult for me to deny. As much as I shoot, I'll need to keep an extra biscuit or two on hand, but that's no big deal.

That's the same reason I no longer use a peep w/ the tube. All it took was that tube breaking w/out warning, and that was that.

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

Cool Cataway....MOBO, FWIW,I shoot my bows daily and have literallyprobably shotthousands of arrows through a Trophy Taker since I started using one 4 years ago and I have harvested 16 deer using the Trophy Taker and have never had one fail or cost me a hunt.
HCH
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RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

i suspect he'll be back to adropper after he See's what that thing does to the fletching.

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

I use a trophy taker no problems at all wasn't the W/B developed for use out of treestands?

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

I use a drop away.

Why? Because I want as little contact as possible.

Friction creates drag, drag decreases speed.

I like speed. I know it isn't a necessity, but I enjoy it.

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

I'm sure cost is an issue as well as tuning. Biscuts are easy to put on and marketed well. Those that shoot them just love them and have taken many deer with them. I don't care for them, but what would the world be like with out them? I enjoy reading the on going debates over them.:DTheir perfect in every way according to some and then there's the hundreds of post where guy's have problems. Just amazing!:D

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

i use a drop away on my hunting bow, but not 3d or spot. if drop-aways were the end all be all for accuracy, arrow flight and reliability then the pro's would compete with them. the thing is - they aren't. what they are isthe latest fad. there are several reasons i'm considering bagging my drop away for this hunting season. one of them is creeping at full draw from an elevated position - unlikely i'll do it when staring down a deer - but possible. another is there is more going on than with a fixed position rest - and finally - like i said up top - they aren't more accurate, or more reliable, and they don't offer better arrow flight. they do get out of the way soexecution errors on the shot may be minimized. if you think your rest is more accurate than a tt spring steel - pick one up with the proper blade thickness and give it a test.

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

What is creeping at full draw. All my buddies that shoot competition use the Trophy Taker or other drop aways for the most part. They tell me they use them because they are the most accurate rest. What is the most accurate rest in your opinion?
HCH
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RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

you know, if you're tired or freezing and have to hold the bow for a long time at full draw - and you creep forward a little bit - you're changing the way the drop times - and possibly its height depending on the bow you shoot. some bows need that drop away up at the last minute - and any creep can lower the rest a little.

most accurate, i don't know - probably a spring steel, gkf infinity, nap 3000 w/ lizard tongue - something like that.

then the issue of having something pulling on either your cable or your cable guard is something i forgot to mention. i think the muzzy takes care of this - and a couple other inertia launcher systems also.

i like drop aways, don't get me wrong - but i don't believe they are any better than most fixed position rests.

we got my employee a bow w/ a nap 360 on it. now that's a quiet, dependable rest w/ great accuracy. i may be looking into that for hunting. can't believe that rest. there is no sound, absolutely none from that rest.

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

I have a QAD on my mathews and I have no fletching contact and it shoots great.

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

I may be using the whisker biscuit this year as well for my hunting rest. I like the muzzy zero effect NG, but honestly it is more money and I don't see myself getting anything out of it that a biscuit won't offer me for less money and with less moving parts. I don't care who you are, they are accurate enough for anyones hunting duties unless you are shooting at animals further than 50 yards, and the only reason I would use something else for target purposes is because of the slight amount of forgiveness I feel a spring steel blade offers over it. Using blazers through the whisker biscuit prevent fletching damage or wrinkling as well. I don't think any dropaway offers anything over a whisker biscuit other than coolness factor. When it comes to form and function, IMHO they will produce the same results, with more moving parts and more price on the dropaway. I recommend a biscuit on all hunting specific bows I sell as well, trust me I would love to sell everyone a higher dollar drop away and we do keep them in stock for guys that prefer them but when they ask me, I tell them for a hunting specific bow the biscuit works well.



This target was shot at the shop I work at (at our old location) by Jim Despart using a whisker biscuit. This target here would qualify a shooter to shoot in the finals at the vegas world championships every single year, and would probably be amongst the highest X counts as well. Jim did actually bring and shoot a biscuit equipped bow to Vegas on at least one occasion as well. Does this show you what this rest is capable of? People with average form, and average shooting scores would see no difference IMHO between any fallaway rest and a properly setup whisker biscuit.

Now on to what arrow rest is ultimately the most accurate and forgiving? I would agree also that a spring steel type rest is the most forgiving when used with a blade of the proper thickness. All of mycompetition bows have spring steel blades on them. I have a TT spring steel one hole rest on my Apex that I shoot indoors for 3 and 5 spot, as well as for 90 meter FITA competition. I have a GKF TKO Target with a fixed spring steel blade for my 3D bow. I shoot these because I feel that a spring steel type fixed blade of proper thickness at the proper blade angle absorbs a lot of the arrows oscillations upon release and dampens a lot of the energy that is suddenly transferred to an arrow upon release. They are so forgiving that Dave Cousins (probably the most dominant competitive archer ever) will actually tell you that fletching contact should not be a major concern and in seminars will actually put an arrow on a rest cock vane down to make direct contact with a spring steel rest to show you that this only affects point of impact at 90 meters by around 6-7". 99.99999999 percent of archers don't have the shot execution or limited range of movementto see a difference of 6-7" of group change at 90 meters.

So...............this year I will probably be using a biscuit for hunting, and I will continue to use spring steel type rests for competition. If you look on the bows of the majority of indoor spots shooters, field shooters, and FITA shooters where consistency is most critical you will see fixed position full contact spring steel type rests. You do see a lot more fall aways in the 3D crowd, however I don't see any benefit to a fallaway over a spring steel for competitive archery.

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

i use a fall awayrest called the trap door and i LOVE it...

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

Rick James, good information. I just got the WB and spent a few nights experimenting to make sure everything was right on in terms of tuning, etc. and love it. But what I liked most about your post was that you don't pressure guys in to buying the fanciest/most expensive pieces of equipmentor pitch them as necessarily being the best because of it. The reason I shop at my local archery shop and the reason I will continue to, is the manager is helpful, has taught me many things, and shows me what I NEED to have to be successful and then offers what OPTIONS I have. Never ever pressures me and in the end, earns him more business because I keep going back time and time again.

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

I just went to the NAP Quicktune 2100 and really like it. Before that, I had used a Cobra Diamondback on my old bow. The Cobra was my first fall-away, and I don't think I'll be going back to fixed position. I am very happy with the fall away. I think you guys could argue about just about anything, as long as everyone agrees that whatever YOU have is the best. My wife shoots a biscuit and it shoots very good. Before the fall away, I had a golden key fixed position and it was good as well. Debating what is the most accurate rest possible is pretty much a dead-end.

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

i don't think anyone is arguing, just giving info.

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

I started with a spring steel fork rest on my first bow, and I had arrows pop off the rest at just the wrong time, twice, and not long after that, the first WB was on the market, so I switched to it hoping to avoid the same problem. I liked the orignal WB, except it was hard on my fletchings, and I didn't care for the rear loading only of the rest. Eventually, I got a TR drop zone and I liked it too, never had any real problems with it, but when I sold my last bow, I let the rest go with it, and I bought the new and improved WB and have also switched to the blazer vanes no, and I shoot as good with the new WB as I ever did with the TR drop zone.
What I wonder is how many guys preach that a fall away rest is the only way, BUT yetpreach that mechincal broadheads are the deveils curse because of possible failures with the moving parts??[8D]

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

Good point about the mechanical broadheads. A friend of mine swears by mechanicals but will NEVER use a drop away rest...I guess that would be the opposite of what you had said...but similar.

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

I highly suspect I won't. A buddy of mine, actually, 2, have the biscuit and use Blazers, as do I. They have no trouble w/ them getting messed up at all. Those blazers are plenty rigid to handle it.

I agree, though, that some of the more flimsy fletchings, such as the Quick Spin and Duravanes, do wrinkle quite easily through the buscuit. I also know that feathers work very well through them, and they don't get messed up either. The WB is just a fantastic hunting rest no matter how you cut it.

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

And some pretty good info too Giblet. Never gave that creep/drop thing a thought.

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

Throw me on the WB pile. I love it and see absolutely no reason to change. I robinhooded a few arrows right after I got it tuned up. I guess I could get more accurate.... I guess. Anyway, that seems plenty good enough. As for vane damage - I shoot both plastic and feathers and have no problems. I did get some wavy vanes with the first WB on my old bow but I slapped it on and fairly quickly started grouping good and thought I had it set. That's one thing I've noticed with the WB - you can get good groups although it may not be tuned properly. The out of tune giveaways for me has been vane damage and I also noticed I would get off flights with some fixed broadheads, mostly larger cutting diameter ones.

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

i like using a drop away because i just like the idea that it doesn't make contact with the fletching

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

I like the drop aways as well but my brother shoots a bisquit and after tune issues resolved it is a good hunting rest,not for me I won't trade my mze.As for string creep,that makes alot of sense and is something to watch for ,except I think if you have the stop screw set properly on the mze the arm won't drop unless you almost hit the point of let down.

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

Neither, I have a Quickrest.
Then again, I'd probably have adrop-away if not for the $$$$.
BUt I never could understand the insistance of "no effect" concerning a WB.

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

I've been shooting the W/B daily since I got my new bow 3 months ago and LOVE it! I tried the drop away rests when I was looking at new bows and actually had a few arrows fall off. So I tried the W/B and never looked back. I also have zero affect on my fletchings.

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

I have used or set up virtually every type of rest out there at one point or another. I don't work at a shop, but have many friends that bring their bows to me to set up. And I like to tinker, I think have about 5 different rests in my tackle box right now.

I don't care for the WB, but it has nothing to do with how it functions, I just don't care for how it adjusts is all. I like rests with a bit more tuning capability and easier adjustments. Other than that the WB has to be the most simple rest on the market next to a flipper rest or shooting off the shelf. If I did spot and stalk type hunting I would seriously consider this rest.

I personally don't feel a drop a way is the purest form of releasing an arrow. Sure they do good job of getting an arrow off with no contact. Providing you have them set up correctly with the right fletchings. I have seen a ton of drop a ways that have fletching contact though because they were not set up correctly. The people just assumed that since they had a drop a way that problem was solved. Every bow I have put a drop a way on required me to adjust the knocking point and tweek the tune on the bow.

The other problem with drop a ways is there are too many myths surrounding them. Too many think they are more accurate and let you get a way with more things as far as form goes. This is simply not the case. Most are actually more critical of form because they add an overdraw to your bow. And they are still susceptable to torque issues because the arrow is going to go where it is pointed at full draw, regardless of what type of rest you have. A drop a way is not going to change that fact. Almost all shots that get messed up get messed BEFORE the shot, not during. You just don't know it. And if your drop a way is set up properly the arrow still rides on the rest while it is leaving, then the rest falls just in time for the fletchings to clear. Other wise your arrow would be dropping as it is launched. So the same chances to mess the shot up during the shot are still there, especially of you have a longer draw.

I have also never seen a drop increase speed, at least to a degree that a chrono is accurate. Same with a WB, I'm sure it slows the arrow down some, but not to and extent you would notice. Chronoes really are not accurate to 1 or 2 fps any way, so why worry about it. Now if you don't set them up correctly then they do cost you speed. Another thing I don't like about the WB is it is not very forgiving because it is a full cantainment rest. Not every one shoots the same, some need a slight high nocking point or slightly to the left of center rest adjustment, Maybe they slightly torque the bow at full draw? I actually prefere a high knock setting myself. If you don't shoot a WB right down the pipe you will have a hard time setting it up and will get a fair amount of friction and wear. It's a simply rest, but with simplicity comes draw backs I guess.

I personally like a good prong rest or blade type launchers. I currently have a bodoodle and love it. I also like the quicktune 3,000, and the better GFK rests like the 3-D rover and up. And they are even better with a blade on them. The best I have ever shot was with a cheap 20 dollar TM hunter prong rest. It was a pain to set up, but once they were set up they worked every time. The better prongs rests are just easier to fiddle with is all.

And with a properly set up prong rest or bodoodle type rest they work simular to a drop a way anyway. The force of the arrow leaving the bow pushes the prongs or blades down out of the way and comes back up when the arrow is gone. This is why spring tension is so important. Most have them set WAY too stiff. If you paper tune (I don't any more) and you have a tail high tear that you can't rid off no matter where your nock setting is chances are you spring is set too stiff (with a prong rest or simular). The arrow is pushing the rest down as it leaves, then it is bouncing back up and hitting the arrow again before it clears. This pushes the tail of the arrow up giving you the knock high tear even though you have a low knock setting. I have a seen a drop a way do it as well. The arrow was actually bouncing off the rest or shelf because the knocking point was so low or the rest was dropping too fast.

I will be honest though, I get some contact with my bodoodle, However I shoot feathers with a blade type rest so it doesn't effect my shot at all. I love this rest, it just plain works for me, and that is all that counts. I could cure the contact issue if I want to go to a smaller profile fletching, but I don't want to. In order to have one of the feathers clear my cables when I draw I get a slight amount of contact on one of the blades of my rest. A few years ago this would have drove me nuts, but the more I shoot the less I worry about stuff like this. As long as the arrow goes where I want it to I'm not really worried. I mean I know people shooting wooden arrows off the shelf with no sights and rest that are pretty darn accurate. I think some of compound guys worry a bit too much;). Archery is more mental than it is about the equipment.

This doesn't mean I don't like drop a ways, I do. I have a drop zone and a muzzy on my other bows. I like the muzzy the best. The drop zone is ok, I just don't care for the string on my cable is all.

It really just boils down to what you like in the end. What ever you feel most comfortable with is what you will shoot better with. If you shoot better when you switch rests, chances are it was either in your head, or you got this set up a bit better than the last one was. None of them are really any better than the others. They all do the same thing, just in a slightly different way is all.

And if you have trouble keeping the arrow on a rest, it isn't the rests fault. Your bow is either set up wrong, you are drawing too much weight, too much length, your form is wrong and/or you need to practice more. You should be able to draw your bow straight back smoothly without the arrow dropping off the rest. If you can't do that you have more problems than what rest you should use.

Just my opinions any way, and nothing more.

Paul

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

I am a novice, I have a lowly PSE typhoon and I use a trophy taker drop away. I kinda wish I had a WB due to the way it holds an arrow at any angle. I have never taken an animal with a bow but I can see that if you had to move around waiting for a shot you might lose the arrow from my drop away. I am elk hunting for the first time this year with a bow. We'll see. EJ

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

Don't worry about it. You will like the Trophy Taker for elk hunting as sometimes it requires long shots. My little kid here uses a Trophy Taker and he has no problems with arrows falling off.HCH

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

I haveshot a W/B for about 4 years now and I would not consider another rest.

My goal for buying the W/B orginally was to eliminate any chance that the aarow would fall off while stalking or drawing. The W/B did exactly that. I had problems with it tearing up my fletchings last year for the first time since owning it. The problem was a tuning problem and cheap fletchings.

I would not consider a fall away rest simply because of too many moving parts that "could" fail. I will not use expandable Broadheads becasue of this too. I am just consertative or basic when it comes to my set up........... I think less is better. ;)

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

Whisker Biscuit, like the TM, Dody, Bodoodle and other basic launchers, is largely maintenance-free, and that's why everyone likes it (not to mention the fact that it's a WHOLE LOT CHEAPER thana high-end dropaway.

My bow makes it to the proshop about once/year. I hate fooling with my bow, and I'd rather spend time scouting than waste it in the proshop. When I do shoot, it's in the yard or in the woods, and I like to make my adjustments at that time.

All my friends have dropaway rests, and for the most part they work ok, but on at least one occasion for each of them, their dropaways have failed or come out of adjustment due to external factors. Some of these rests have about a million hinges, knots, springs, screws, etc. Each one gets closer to failing with every shot. I've had quite a few offered to me for free, and I won't use them. If I can't adjust it easily at home, on my own time, I don't want it. I've seen those guys make WAY too many trips to the bow shop to fuss with their $120 dropaway rests, while my $45 springy prong-rest has gone 9 years maintenance-free.

The whisker biscuit is no-frills, bolt on, loctite into place and go. Trust me, the 1-2fps that you might lose because your vanes brush the whiskers, it's not gonna make any cognizable difference afield. I don't use a WB (doty rest), but I wouldn't be afraid to make the switch if I bought a new bow and wanted to try something new.

I guess if you hang around the proshop a lot, or don't mind fussing with things, a dropaway is the way to go. Personally, I think they're just another fad that will come and go (like overdraws, parallel limbs, punchcutters, non-wrapped carbon arrows, fiberglass arrows, crosshairsetc...)

Again, maybe I'm just old school. I've been at this for 13 years now, and it feels like 50. We keep continuouslygoing through the same hoops over and over again (fads, styles, the next big thing, etc.) but we always come back to the basics.

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

I have only had one drop a way have a problem and that was because I was constantly messing with it and I stripped out a few screws. ( I like to tinke and change my set up.) The company has since changed the design and the rest is built better.

The muzzy looks complicated, but it really isn't. There are only a few moving parts and they are big and rugged.

The drop zone, trophy taker and trap door rest are pretty simular to most prong rests as far as parts and design go. And the quicktunes are just prong rests on a hinge pretty much.

The WB is a bit better in that regard because is has no moving parts. However I don't know that it is any more rugged, because if you drop it it can still move or bend.

Paul

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

Great posts' Paul. HCH

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

I like my shelf. Mostdependable and consistantrest I've ever used.

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

Paul, I'm sure you have had those experiences with the WB but I have found it to be quite forgiving, almost to a fault where it can be out of tune and still shoot well. I would agree the basic model does not have enough adjustment for me but I have only used the deluxe model that has vertical and horizontal adjustment with mark lines. I have a Bodoodle pro which is a fine rest but hands down I prefer the WB as it is, at minimal, as accurate, contains the arrow, is quiet (at least using carbons), and is basically maintenance free once it is tuned.

RE: Drop away or fletching contact rests?
 

I didn't say it wouldn't shoot well. Just that if your arrow is not leaving perfectly straight thru the rest it will rub more is all. And if for some reason you were really knock high it might actually hit the ring.

I have never used one, just set a few up for others. I do like the newer version. And I will admit it is a great spot and stalk rest, but I wouldn't pick it for a target rest. I honestly have never had any problems with the arrow falling off when I shoot. So it would be a solution to a problem I don't have. And then I would probably go with a Muzzy and an arrow holder just as a personal preferance.

And all rests will shoot well when out of tune. Especially with field tips. A bow really doesn't need to be in tune to shoot well. That is purely a function of the archer and how well your form and release is. Having a better tune just makes it a bit more forgiving is all.

Paul