TR/Others. A topic starter! Patterning a Buck?????
10-25-2002, 05:14 PM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 116
TR/Others. A topic starter! Patterning a Buck?????
I can't quite picture this one. I hear guys talk of it but I just don't see how I could do it. Maybe its easier in western states?
I won't try to describe my hunting area in great detail but here goes: I own 30 acres and it ties into ~200 acres. Doesn't get lots of pressure during bow, but there are a couple guys hunting it. Allot of thick stuff in the lower "wetland" (not really wet). Across the road from me are several fields and fence/tree lines (~70 acres worth) that go back to the powerlines. The powerline area is a big area also ~300 acres. Its ~1/2 mile from my house directly across the road.
I have seen very few bucks in 3 years of hunting around here (couple crotch horns, and a couple very small 8's). I have not put allot of effort into it around here until last season because of another area I hunted and lost to development. Now I'm focusing here!!
I know the bucks are around and it was confirmed this last August!! In August I was able to watch a bachelor group of 8-9 bucks in a bean field (~0.6 miles from my house as the crow flies) on the northwest end of the powerlines. It was 600 yards from the road and they were quite stealthy. I sneaked in on them and got a trail camera setup which took some great pics. I actually walked upon them over a slight hill top and two were out unusually early that afternoon. One was a definate P&Y 8 point that would probably go in the 140's. I believe there were 2 more in the group that would go P&Y easily also. Well,...of course they split up and only Mother Nature knows where they went!!!
The outfitter in Illinois where I'm going next week tells me how he has patterened this buck and that buck. HOW??? Of course we will be talking,...but I wanted to raise the question to you guys. The way things are set up around here I couldn't really find a "high spot" to cover lots of area to watch for them. There are SO MANY thick areas I could spend days walking them and most likely would never find the bucks because they would be long gone and not let me realize where they bed. I invested in a hight quality aerial from an engineer firm that is ~40"X60" and is incredibly clear. I obviously use it allot.
What am I missing here or are certain areas easier to scout from distances and access easier than my area?? I would love to be able to pattern one of these buck. Of course I don't have access to hunt all this land, but can get into a good chunk on my side and bits on the powerline side.
HOW'S IT DONE???????
I won't try to describe my hunting area in great detail but here goes: I own 30 acres and it ties into ~200 acres. Doesn't get lots of pressure during bow, but there are a couple guys hunting it. Allot of thick stuff in the lower "wetland" (not really wet). Across the road from me are several fields and fence/tree lines (~70 acres worth) that go back to the powerlines. The powerline area is a big area also ~300 acres. Its ~1/2 mile from my house directly across the road.
I have seen very few bucks in 3 years of hunting around here (couple crotch horns, and a couple very small 8's). I have not put allot of effort into it around here until last season because of another area I hunted and lost to development. Now I'm focusing here!!
I know the bucks are around and it was confirmed this last August!! In August I was able to watch a bachelor group of 8-9 bucks in a bean field (~0.6 miles from my house as the crow flies) on the northwest end of the powerlines. It was 600 yards from the road and they were quite stealthy. I sneaked in on them and got a trail camera setup which took some great pics. I actually walked upon them over a slight hill top and two were out unusually early that afternoon. One was a definate P&Y 8 point that would probably go in the 140's. I believe there were 2 more in the group that would go P&Y easily also. Well,...of course they split up and only Mother Nature knows where they went!!!
The outfitter in Illinois where I'm going next week tells me how he has patterened this buck and that buck. HOW??? Of course we will be talking,...but I wanted to raise the question to you guys. The way things are set up around here I couldn't really find a "high spot" to cover lots of area to watch for them. There are SO MANY thick areas I could spend days walking them and most likely would never find the bucks because they would be long gone and not let me realize where they bed. I invested in a hight quality aerial from an engineer firm that is ~40"X60" and is incredibly clear. I obviously use it allot.
What am I missing here or are certain areas easier to scout from distances and access easier than my area?? I would love to be able to pattern one of these buck. Of course I don't have access to hunt all this land, but can get into a good chunk on my side and bits on the powerline side.
HOW'S IT DONE???????
10-25-2002, 07:12 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: TR/Others. A topic starter! Patterning a Buck?????
Your not missing anything bud! I hunt the same type of terrain as you described. Well placed game cams can give you an idea , but thats it. The only sure fire way I know of to pattern bucks in this type of terrain would be high tech gov't sattelite photos<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> other than spending countless hours in a tree at nose bleed heights that would enable you to view your entire parcel. I'm guessing your outfitters ace in the hole would be the one thing most of us dont have , alot of time.
10-25-2002, 09:05 PM
#3
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 417
RE: TR/Others. A topic starter! Patterning a Buck?????
I'm gonna cut and paste again, it' my copyright.
Before we get to "patterning a buck" you should understand a little about deer behavior. So, Here goes.
Home Range
The size of a deer's home range is governed by the availability
of food throughout the year. Deer in open southern oak forests, where browse and mast are abundant year round, use smaller home ranges than northern deer in evergreen forests, where there are few oaks or other trees that produce preferred mast crops. Deer living along timbered river bottoms with agricultural crops at both the top and bottom of the bluffs or hills forage on green small grain crops in the spring, alfalfa and hay fields in the summer, in wooded areas in late summer and early fall as acorn and other mast crops ripen, and corn fields in late summer as long as corn is available, sometimes throughout the winter. They may travel widely as each food source becomes available. If the food sources are abundant and close together, they may not cover more than a few acres.
Depending on the type of habitat, the home ranges of deer may be as small as 20-40 acres for does and 1-1/2-2 miles square for bucks in the mixed hardwood/agricultural lands of the east and midwest. In northern hardwood forest, open agricultural or western country both buck and doe home ranges may cover several square miles. Does select core areas where they spend most of their time in the summer. The core area is defended against other does, which causes the does to spread out into available habitat to avoid conflict with each other.
A buck tries to breed as many does as it can during the rut, and it’s home range usually encompasses several doe home ranges. Buck home ranges are often long and narrow in shape. Long narrow home ranges maximize available resources while minimizing the movement needed by the animal to reach these resources. These long, narrow home ranges are especially typical in river/creek bottoms and valleys.
Doe Use Areas
During the rut the bucks travel to as many of the nearby doe use areas as they can. Bucks don't run when they travel. They walk in forested areas and may trot in open areas. Depending on how densely populated the deer herd is, and how close the doe ranges are to each other, the bucks may travel a rub route 4-7 miles in length, about the distance the buck can travel during the night. If the buck does not find an estrous doe it often returns to the same bedding area each night.
Depending on the habitat, availability of food sources, the number of does, and home ranges in the vicinity, bucks may have several rub routes leading from their bedding areas. Where the habitat is primarily wooded, or in western river bottoms, bucks may have larger home ranges than bucks in farmland areas, because all the deer have to travel farther for food, which causes doe home ranges to be larger and more spread out than in farmland areas. The farther the doe ranges are spread out, the more the bucks have to travel. When doe home ranges are widely spread the buck may have to use different routes and create different rub lines leading to each of them.
Locating Rub Routes
To locate rub routes you have to scout the area you intend to hunt. If you have previously spent time observing the deer in late summer you should have a good idea where the doe home ranges are, because you have seen does with fawns feeding at dusk or after sunrise. With a little more time and effort scouting you should be able to find the doe bedding areas and the trails they use on a regular basis.
After you find the doe trails you should be able to find the buck trails by looking for lightly used trails with rubs along them that parallel the doe trails, but are deeper into the woods, farther up or down the hills, or back from the edges of the meadows in heavier brush or timber. If you have been persistent or lucky you may have seen a buck feeding in the open about sundown. This helps because the buck doesn't travel very far in the afternoon. If you have watched the buck enter the feeding area you know where he came from. The bedding area should not be too far away on his back trail, it is usually within 1/4 mile. With some judicious scouting you should be able to find a rub route.
Once you have located the rub route walk it as far as you can in both directions to find out exactly where the buck moves once the rubbing period starts. Along the way you should find scrapes that tell you where the high use areas of the does are, and whether they are in crossings, funnels, old roads, staging areas or food sources. You should also find clusters of rubs where the buck spends some time working trees along the route. When you find scrapes and rubs together in cover you have found a good spot to hunt during daylight. If you are diligent enough you should be able to walk the rub route backwards to the buck's bedding area. The whole point of patterning is to locate the buck's bedding area. Now you know where to setup to see the buck on a fairly regular basis during daylight.
Scouting and Observing
Begin your hunting season by looking for deer in the late summer. By cruising roads near feeding areas at dusk and dawn you can find out when and where the does and bucks feed. At this time the bucks can often be found at high quality food sources putting on fat for the rut and the winter. They may not be found in the same fields as the does because they are not yet traveling their rub routes or looking for does, they stay fairly close to home instead. When you see them in the evening their bedding area may not be far away.
If you have already seen the buck you have a good idea what time it leaves the bedding area each evening, and you have an idea of how big it’s rack is. If you've located the bedding area, but haven't seen the buck, find a spot well away from the rub route, where you won't be detected, and observe the area to find out what time the buck travels the portions of the route where you can hunt it. At the same time you may see other bucks and does and be able to pattern their movement times. Patterning the does helps you find the buck's when the breeding period begins. Once the does come into estrous the dominant bucks begin to visit their areas.
Open Area Scrapes
I often have hunters ask me why they don't see bucks at rubs or scrapes by agricultural fields or meadows. Throughout the fall bucks are security conscious. They usually travel through and frequent open areas only under cover of darkness, between the hours of sundown and sunrise. Because of this travel pattern rubs and scrapes in open areas (used during darkness) are not good hunting sites. Although you may see a buck in these areas before the rubbing period, once the hunting season opens most bucks avoid open areas during daylight. You should look for, and hunt near, rubs and scrapes that occur in heavy cover along travel lanes, rub routes and feeding areas when you are hunting during the day. Open area rubs and scrapes can be productive hunting sites during the breeding period because rut crazed bucks are less concerned with security and driven by the urge to breed, when they often move all day and all night in search of estrous does.
How's that for starters. I'll have to mull the rest of Twangs post over, and get back to him.
If you guys don't mind I'd like to take this to a new thread (is that the right terminology?), so everbody can read it. If it's okay with Twang I'll post this as "T.R.'s Tips; Patterning a Buck." If it's not okay with him, we'll stay here.
[email protected]
T.R. Michels
Before we get to "patterning a buck" you should understand a little about deer behavior. So, Here goes.
Home Range
The size of a deer's home range is governed by the availability
of food throughout the year. Deer in open southern oak forests, where browse and mast are abundant year round, use smaller home ranges than northern deer in evergreen forests, where there are few oaks or other trees that produce preferred mast crops. Deer living along timbered river bottoms with agricultural crops at both the top and bottom of the bluffs or hills forage on green small grain crops in the spring, alfalfa and hay fields in the summer, in wooded areas in late summer and early fall as acorn and other mast crops ripen, and corn fields in late summer as long as corn is available, sometimes throughout the winter. They may travel widely as each food source becomes available. If the food sources are abundant and close together, they may not cover more than a few acres.
Depending on the type of habitat, the home ranges of deer may be as small as 20-40 acres for does and 1-1/2-2 miles square for bucks in the mixed hardwood/agricultural lands of the east and midwest. In northern hardwood forest, open agricultural or western country both buck and doe home ranges may cover several square miles. Does select core areas where they spend most of their time in the summer. The core area is defended against other does, which causes the does to spread out into available habitat to avoid conflict with each other.
A buck tries to breed as many does as it can during the rut, and it’s home range usually encompasses several doe home ranges. Buck home ranges are often long and narrow in shape. Long narrow home ranges maximize available resources while minimizing the movement needed by the animal to reach these resources. These long, narrow home ranges are especially typical in river/creek bottoms and valleys.
Doe Use Areas
During the rut the bucks travel to as many of the nearby doe use areas as they can. Bucks don't run when they travel. They walk in forested areas and may trot in open areas. Depending on how densely populated the deer herd is, and how close the doe ranges are to each other, the bucks may travel a rub route 4-7 miles in length, about the distance the buck can travel during the night. If the buck does not find an estrous doe it often returns to the same bedding area each night.
Depending on the habitat, availability of food sources, the number of does, and home ranges in the vicinity, bucks may have several rub routes leading from their bedding areas. Where the habitat is primarily wooded, or in western river bottoms, bucks may have larger home ranges than bucks in farmland areas, because all the deer have to travel farther for food, which causes doe home ranges to be larger and more spread out than in farmland areas. The farther the doe ranges are spread out, the more the bucks have to travel. When doe home ranges are widely spread the buck may have to use different routes and create different rub lines leading to each of them.
Locating Rub Routes
To locate rub routes you have to scout the area you intend to hunt. If you have previously spent time observing the deer in late summer you should have a good idea where the doe home ranges are, because you have seen does with fawns feeding at dusk or after sunrise. With a little more time and effort scouting you should be able to find the doe bedding areas and the trails they use on a regular basis.
After you find the doe trails you should be able to find the buck trails by looking for lightly used trails with rubs along them that parallel the doe trails, but are deeper into the woods, farther up or down the hills, or back from the edges of the meadows in heavier brush or timber. If you have been persistent or lucky you may have seen a buck feeding in the open about sundown. This helps because the buck doesn't travel very far in the afternoon. If you have watched the buck enter the feeding area you know where he came from. The bedding area should not be too far away on his back trail, it is usually within 1/4 mile. With some judicious scouting you should be able to find a rub route.
Once you have located the rub route walk it as far as you can in both directions to find out exactly where the buck moves once the rubbing period starts. Along the way you should find scrapes that tell you where the high use areas of the does are, and whether they are in crossings, funnels, old roads, staging areas or food sources. You should also find clusters of rubs where the buck spends some time working trees along the route. When you find scrapes and rubs together in cover you have found a good spot to hunt during daylight. If you are diligent enough you should be able to walk the rub route backwards to the buck's bedding area. The whole point of patterning is to locate the buck's bedding area. Now you know where to setup to see the buck on a fairly regular basis during daylight.
Scouting and Observing
Begin your hunting season by looking for deer in the late summer. By cruising roads near feeding areas at dusk and dawn you can find out when and where the does and bucks feed. At this time the bucks can often be found at high quality food sources putting on fat for the rut and the winter. They may not be found in the same fields as the does because they are not yet traveling their rub routes or looking for does, they stay fairly close to home instead. When you see them in the evening their bedding area may not be far away.
If you have already seen the buck you have a good idea what time it leaves the bedding area each evening, and you have an idea of how big it’s rack is. If you've located the bedding area, but haven't seen the buck, find a spot well away from the rub route, where you won't be detected, and observe the area to find out what time the buck travels the portions of the route where you can hunt it. At the same time you may see other bucks and does and be able to pattern their movement times. Patterning the does helps you find the buck's when the breeding period begins. Once the does come into estrous the dominant bucks begin to visit their areas.
Open Area Scrapes
I often have hunters ask me why they don't see bucks at rubs or scrapes by agricultural fields or meadows. Throughout the fall bucks are security conscious. They usually travel through and frequent open areas only under cover of darkness, between the hours of sundown and sunrise. Because of this travel pattern rubs and scrapes in open areas (used during darkness) are not good hunting sites. Although you may see a buck in these areas before the rubbing period, once the hunting season opens most bucks avoid open areas during daylight. You should look for, and hunt near, rubs and scrapes that occur in heavy cover along travel lanes, rub routes and feeding areas when you are hunting during the day. Open area rubs and scrapes can be productive hunting sites during the breeding period because rut crazed bucks are less concerned with security and driven by the urge to breed, when they often move all day and all night in search of estrous does.
How's that for starters. I'll have to mull the rest of Twangs post over, and get back to him.
If you guys don't mind I'd like to take this to a new thread (is that the right terminology?), so everbody can read it. If it's okay with Twang I'll post this as "T.R.'s Tips; Patterning a Buck." If it's not okay with him, we'll stay here.
[email protected]
T.R. Michels
10-26-2002, 08:36 AM
#4
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 116
RE: TR/Others. A topic starter! Patterning a Buck?????
TR, no problem on starting another thread. If you want to just cut and paste this discussion into a new thread you can. Thanks for the info so far.
I have a feeling that the bucks I saw in the bachelor group,...at least the bulk of them stay over in the big area at the powerlines and if I back track rubs thats where they would go. I don't have access to much of that area,...and some other guys hunt it. Just speculation on my part. But for sure this 200 acres over on my side has some sweet areas also. I just don't see the rub/scrap activity over here allot.
I don't understand the doe territory thing either. Do they literally keep to their own range? and keep other does outa their range all the time. There must be allot of overlap??
I have a feeling that the bucks I saw in the bachelor group,...at least the bulk of them stay over in the big area at the powerlines and if I back track rubs thats where they would go. I don't have access to much of that area,...and some other guys hunt it. Just speculation on my part. But for sure this 200 acres over on my side has some sweet areas also. I just don't see the rub/scrap activity over here allot.
I don't understand the doe territory thing either. Do they literally keep to their own range? and keep other does outa their range all the time. There must be allot of overlap??
