You're right, energy can neither be created nor destroyed........high school physics lesson. If people are so obsessed with speed and power why not just go to shooting guns? Cheaper is the only way I wish they would go personally.

Actually it's pretty straight forward. If the bow is a 30" draw and an 8" brace height then the power stroke is 20 1/4 inches or 1.69 ft. If you pull 70# over the entire power stroke which gives the absolute maximum stored energy possible you get 20.25 x 1.69 = 118.42 ft/lbs of stored energy. Now if the bow transfers 100% of it's energy to the forward motion of the arrow, the amount of kinetic energy on the arrow is also 118.42 ft/lbs. Now since KE = 1/2mv^2 and we know the KE and the mass of the arrow you simply solve for the unknown v = (2KE/m)^.5 So in the example I used for a 350 grain arrow it comes out to 390.3 ft/sec and a 600 grain at 298.1 ft/sec.

Nope, not even if you could manage all that. At least not at 70# peak, 30" draw, 8" braceand 350 grain arrow.

I think that is called a firearm. Actually that's not true either. Turtelshell is correct, you can't create energy, the best you can do is carry a bunch of it with you. That's what we do with a firearm. We carry the stored energy in chemical form in our ammunition. In archery, we carry it around in chemical form in our muscles. Unfortunately, even the strogest of us are pretty limited.

I would like to see some bows come out that are less expensive from the good name brand companies, like hoyt, mathews, and bowtech. There isnt much to change really.

I agree with this position as well. It would be great to see the big companies come out with some more affordable rigs. As far as tech stuff goes, not sure how much more can be made that one can actually say"Product X makes me a better archer"

Ain't gonna happen. They've got to charge a bunch more than what bows 'should' cost in orderto pay for all those bows those idiotspeed freaks are tearing up with ultralight arrows and sending back for warranty work. [8D]

The sensible guys who don't abuse their equipment and shoot moderate weight arrows, who never have to make a warranty claim,are actually buying several sets of limbs and spare parts for the speed freaks every time they buy a bow. As long as the consumer demands more and more speed - for reasons totally beyond MY comprehension -then the prices will continue to skyrocket.

Yea, but ain't the customer service just grand???...!!!!!

Maybe someone will invent a wheel and pulley system for my stickbow that makes it easier to hold at full draw......

Ahh, there's the key "over the entire power stroke" which means the force/draw curve is a flat line, no build up, no let off. So in this model the only way to raise energy is to increase the power stroke, so DECREASE the brace height. Like I said, "unshootable" [&:]

I've read about designs in arrows to increase penetration, basically a small weight in the shaft that when the shaft hit the target, the weight would slam forward giving it a secondary kick into the target.

Personally I think the biggest detraction to getting into bowhunting today is the cost, hard to find a bow for under $250-$300. Very easy to find a "not top of the line" bow for $700-$800.

Sylvan's right, there's a ceiling on what a bow can do, because there's only so much potential energy stored in the device at full-draw. As he explained, 100% efficiency is impossible, but that is the limit on the bow's output.

However, if you could design a cam that would allow you to draw TWICE for one shot, you could, in theory, store 2x118 foot/pounds of energy, and effectively nearly DOUBLE the output.

Think about a pump-action BB gun. The airtank housed inside the airgun stores energy without releasing it until the trigger is pulled. If you pump it once, you might get 100 f.p.s. If you put two pumps in, and uncork it, you'll get maybe 200 f.p.s. - the same would apply to bows.

So where I'm going with this, is if you could engineer a cam that would allow you to draw the bow several times to "store energy" and unleash it all with one shot, you could overcome the 400 fps "ceiling." I'm thinking something along the lines ofa "ratcheting" cam that would compress the limbs repeatedly, and unleash the fury all at once.

I shouldn't think out loud, because it makes me sound like a total idiot.

Now that isa trulyinteresting idea quicksilver. My bet is they would find a reason to outlaw it. Maybe not though. I can see the argument both for and against. Cons would say that you are effectively "cocking" it with each stroke.Pros would say no, as long as your release mechanism never leaves the string and tension is continuously maintained it's not cocking at all. The "cocking" obsticle does seem kind of difficult to overcome though. Do you think it's possible? If it's like the air gun, it is essentially "cocked" with each stroke. Anyway, neat idea, if you could make it work I think you would become a very rich man!

You got it! The maximum amount of energy you can have for a given peak weight and a given length of power stroke is a flat force draw curve. That's why I qualified the answer with peak weight, brace and draw length. When you define peak weight, draw length and brace you have defined the maximum window to work in. Of course your right it's notshootable. Not only that it isn't buildable either. We can only approach it as a limit.