NY Hunters and Atlasman
02-23-2006, 01:29 PM
#1
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan/Ohio
Posts: 11,682
NY Hunters and Atlasman
[font="verdana,helvetica,sans-serif, arial"]Here is an article. From what I hear from NY hunters pretty right on. About not seeing deer
02/23/06
[font="verdana,helvetica,sans-serif, arial"]Area deer take down
Story text size
-2-10+1+2
By Jake Palmateer
Staff Writer
DAVENPORT — When one hunter comes into Losie’s Gun Shop and complains about a lack of deer in the area, he is probably a bad hunter, owner Jim Losie said Wednesday.
"But when you get 300 guys coming here and saying it, you know it’s a problem," Losie said.
Losie, who has been in the gun-shop and hunting-supply business for 26 years, said that in the last three years, more hunters have been complaining about a lack of deer — especially quality bucks — than ever before.
The state Department of Environmental Conservation announced Tuesday that hunters harvested 14 percent fewer deer in 2005 than in 2004.
[align=left]Advertisement[/align]
In Chenango, Delaware, Otsego and Schoharie counties, the drop was 11 percent. But DEC statistics show a 49 percent decline in the area deer take since 2002.
Losie said hunters from outside the area, who have traditionally been a boon for local businesses such as hotels and restaurants during what is otherwise a slow time of year, are beginning to opt for Canada.
They don’t want to waste their money in New York, he said.
DEC officials said the statewide drop is the result of specific management actions designed to bring the deer population down from the high levels of 2002 and 2003. But they said severe winters resulted in deer population declines that were greater than expected.
[align=center]What's Related[/align][*]Early hunting questioned Losie said coyotes are one of the major causes in the decline in this area.
"The fawns are just getting riddled by coyotes," Losie said.
One woman who bought a trail camera from him reported seeing 15 to 18 fawns taken by coyotes to their den in one week, Losie said.
However, a former DEC commissioner said Wednesday there are greater factors at work.
"Since 1960, we lost 100,000 small dairy farms," Michael Zagata of West Davenport said.
The brushy, early stages of reforestation on the former farmland, as well as active logging, created ideal conditions for deer and other wildlife, Zagata said.
"We got used to it," Zagata said.
But as the hunters of that time aged, the landscape also aged, he said.
The state now has 10 million acres of pole timber, Zagata said, which limits sunlight to the forest floor.
"No sunlight, no plants. No plants, no deer food," Zagata said.
Zagata said deer are also contributing to a decline in other wildlife and plant species in the state as they consume young oak trees and other forage on the forest floor.
Losie said hunters are frustrated by the DEC for not doing more to improve the deer herd.
Most hunters he encounters at his shop, Losie said, want to see a year-round hunting season for coyotes, antler-point restrictions to limit the harvesting of young bucks and better land-management practices on state land to improve deer forage.
In an effort to rebuild the herd, the state in 2005 issued 35 percent fewer deer-management permits — known among hunters as doe permits.
They also instituted a pilot program in parts of Ulster County that allowed hunters to only harvest bucks with more than three points on either of their two antlers.
But DEC officials said they don’t want a return to the deer population levels of 2002 because of concern over damage to agriculture, forest regeneration, landscaping or vehicle accidents.
Zagata said there is no easy solution to the deer-herd question.
"We actually need to get the (deer) numbers lower in conjunction with active forest management on a large scale," Zagata said. "Believe it or not, we have too many deer for the habitat to support."
A reduction in the deer herd now, combined with the creation of better habitat, would result in a larger and higher-quality deer herd in the future, he said.
But Zagata said any land-management practice that includes logging on protected state land will run into opposition.
We have a public that wants to protect every tree that grows, Zagata said.
"There are millions of acres (in the state) that are not productive for wildlife," Zagata said. "We can literally protect things to death."
As the forests age, wildlife, plant and tree species will become less diverse and many will disappear, Zagata said.
02/23/06
[font="verdana,helvetica,sans-serif, arial"]Area deer take down
Story text size
-2-10+1+2
By Jake Palmateer
Staff Writer
DAVENPORT — When one hunter comes into Losie’s Gun Shop and complains about a lack of deer in the area, he is probably a bad hunter, owner Jim Losie said Wednesday.
"But when you get 300 guys coming here and saying it, you know it’s a problem," Losie said.
Losie, who has been in the gun-shop and hunting-supply business for 26 years, said that in the last three years, more hunters have been complaining about a lack of deer — especially quality bucks — than ever before.
The state Department of Environmental Conservation announced Tuesday that hunters harvested 14 percent fewer deer in 2005 than in 2004.
[align=left]Advertisement[/align]
In Chenango, Delaware, Otsego and Schoharie counties, the drop was 11 percent. But DEC statistics show a 49 percent decline in the area deer take since 2002.Losie said hunters from outside the area, who have traditionally been a boon for local businesses such as hotels and restaurants during what is otherwise a slow time of year, are beginning to opt for Canada.
They don’t want to waste their money in New York, he said.
DEC officials said the statewide drop is the result of specific management actions designed to bring the deer population down from the high levels of 2002 and 2003. But they said severe winters resulted in deer population declines that were greater than expected.
[align=center]What's Related[/align][*]Early hunting questioned Losie said coyotes are one of the major causes in the decline in this area.
"The fawns are just getting riddled by coyotes," Losie said.
One woman who bought a trail camera from him reported seeing 15 to 18 fawns taken by coyotes to their den in one week, Losie said.
However, a former DEC commissioner said Wednesday there are greater factors at work.
"Since 1960, we lost 100,000 small dairy farms," Michael Zagata of West Davenport said.
The brushy, early stages of reforestation on the former farmland, as well as active logging, created ideal conditions for deer and other wildlife, Zagata said.
"We got used to it," Zagata said.
But as the hunters of that time aged, the landscape also aged, he said.
The state now has 10 million acres of pole timber, Zagata said, which limits sunlight to the forest floor.
"No sunlight, no plants. No plants, no deer food," Zagata said.
Zagata said deer are also contributing to a decline in other wildlife and plant species in the state as they consume young oak trees and other forage on the forest floor.
Losie said hunters are frustrated by the DEC for not doing more to improve the deer herd.
Most hunters he encounters at his shop, Losie said, want to see a year-round hunting season for coyotes, antler-point restrictions to limit the harvesting of young bucks and better land-management practices on state land to improve deer forage.
In an effort to rebuild the herd, the state in 2005 issued 35 percent fewer deer-management permits — known among hunters as doe permits.
They also instituted a pilot program in parts of Ulster County that allowed hunters to only harvest bucks with more than three points on either of their two antlers.
But DEC officials said they don’t want a return to the deer population levels of 2002 because of concern over damage to agriculture, forest regeneration, landscaping or vehicle accidents.
Zagata said there is no easy solution to the deer-herd question.
"We actually need to get the (deer) numbers lower in conjunction with active forest management on a large scale," Zagata said. "Believe it or not, we have too many deer for the habitat to support."
A reduction in the deer herd now, combined with the creation of better habitat, would result in a larger and higher-quality deer herd in the future, he said.
But Zagata said any land-management practice that includes logging on protected state land will run into opposition.
We have a public that wants to protect every tree that grows, Zagata said.
"There are millions of acres (in the state) that are not productive for wildlife," Zagata said. "We can literally protect things to death."
As the forests age, wildlife, plant and tree species will become less diverse and many will disappear, Zagata said.
02-23-2006, 03:44 PM
#2
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: NY Hunters and Atlasman
ORIGINAL: ghemry
Here is an article. From what I hear from NY hunters pretty right on. About not seeing deer
Here is an article. From what I hear from NY hunters pretty right on. About not seeing deer
No big surprise..........I have been hearing........and saying this for years.
DAVENPORT — When one hunter comes into Losie’s Gun Shop and complains about a lack of deer in the area, he is probably a bad hunter, owner Jim Losie said Wednesday.
"But when you get 300 guys coming here and saying it, you know it’s a problem," Losie said.
"But when you get 300 guys coming here and saying it, you know it’s a problem," Losie said.
The state Department of Environmental Conservation announced Tuesday that hunters harvested 14 percent fewer deer in 2005 than in 2004.
In Chenango, Delaware, Otsego and Schoharie counties, the drop was 11 percent. But DEC statistics show a 49 percent decline in the area deer take since 2002.
In Chenango, Delaware, Otsego and Schoharie counties, the drop was 11 percent. But DEC statistics show a 49 percent decline in the area deer take since 2002.
They don’t want to waste their money in New York, he said.
Potentially the only thing that could save this mess......but I even doubt that.......I'm sure revenue from other sources trumps this big time.
DEC officials said the statewide drop is the result of specific management actions designed to bring the deer population down from the high levels of 2002 and 2003. But they said severe winters resulted in deer population declines that were greater than expected.
Losie said coyotes are one of the major causes in the decline in this area.
"The fawns are just getting riddled by coyotes," Losie said.
"The fawns are just getting riddled by coyotes," Losie said.
He is 100% correct.
However, a former DEC commissioner said Wednesday there are greater factors at work.
"Since 1960, we lost 100,000 small dairy farms," Michael Zagata of West Davenport said.
The brushy, early stages of reforestation on the former farmland, as well as active logging, created ideal conditions for deer and other wildlife, Zagata said.
"We got used to it," Zagata said.
But as the hunters of that time aged, the landscape also aged, he said.
The state now has 10 million acres of pole timber, Zagata said, which limits sunlight to the forest floor.
"No sunlight, no plants. No plants, no deer food," Zagata said.
"Since 1960, we lost 100,000 small dairy farms," Michael Zagata of West Davenport said.
The brushy, early stages of reforestation on the former farmland, as well as active logging, created ideal conditions for deer and other wildlife, Zagata said.
"We got used to it," Zagata said.
But as the hunters of that time aged, the landscape also aged, he said.
The state now has 10 million acres of pole timber, Zagata said, which limits sunlight to the forest floor.
"No sunlight, no plants. No plants, no deer food," Zagata said.
But DEC officials said they don’t want a return to the deer population levels of 2002 because of concern over damage to agriculture, forest regeneration, landscaping or vehicle accidents.
And there you have it folks...........right there in black and white. They wanted the herd slaughtered but knew the only way to accomplish that was to lie and trick the hunters into doing it for them while being under the impression that they were "maintaining" an ever growing herd.......not destroying it and hunting for years to come. Pretty sick.
Zagata said there is no easy solution to the deer-herd question.
"We actually need to get the (deer) numbers lower in conjunction with active forest management on a large scale," Zagata said. "Believe it or not, we have too many deer for the habitat to support."
02-23-2006, 05:45 PM
#4
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: ohio
Posts: 166
RE: NY Hunters and Atlasman
its true... here where i hunt a yearling is considerd a monster.. in fact my grandpas hunted here for 20 years and the biggest he ever got was a not so big 6 pointer, its reall hard to pass a spike cause theres a small chance it will get a chance to grow up by next year..
02-23-2006, 06:55 PM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Inverness, MS
Posts: 3,982
RE: NY Hunters and Atlasman
It's no surprise to me either and I'm 1,000 miles away!!! Our hunters are seeing fewer deer as well and the last 2 years have been horrible across the board from my perspective and hundreds of others..... However, the QDM nuts have infiltrated the legislature and they keep saying kill more kill more!!!! It's totally BS..
02-23-2006, 08:25 PM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Bandera, Texas
Posts: 1,636
RE: NY Hunters and Atlasman
Well all I can say, in Northern New York, I have seen like 3 bucks in four or five years. And they were small.
I own 119 acres and the neighbor is a great guy, and most of the people, but their thought is if it has antlers it gets shot. Most will not shoot does, and I have permission to hunt the neighbors area, but he does not want any does shot. Means serious lack of bucks.
Now, as for does, I see them when I am out, but not during the season! [&o][8D]
I own 119 acres and the neighbor is a great guy, and most of the people, but their thought is if it has antlers it gets shot. Most will not shoot does, and I have permission to hunt the neighbors area, but he does not want any does shot. Means serious lack of bucks.
Now, as for does, I see them when I am out, but not during the season! [&o][8D]
02-27-2006, 05:31 AM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Delhi, NY (by way of Chenango Forks)
Posts: 1,706
RE: NY Hunters and Atlasman
To me it's not as bad as people think. Yes, Deer numbers may be down but that may be good for the deer herd. I have had no problem seeing deer (I know that is just me, but I know a lot of people that feel the same anda fewthat don't). Here are the "official" DECnumbers (from local newspaper):
- deer take down 14% statewide - that's not too bad when the DMP tags were reduced by 35%
- many counties showed an increase in buck harvest, but a decrease in total deer harvest (300-1600 deer for the 3 counties listed - Broome, Tioga, Delaware)
- Chenango Co. (where I hunt predominantly) actually showed an increase in deer take even without a DMPs issued (no DMPs last year either). they did state that DMAP permits may have scewed that a bit
all is not as bleak as some may think. deer are still there to be taken.
- deer take down 14% statewide - that's not too bad when the DMP tags were reduced by 35%
- many counties showed an increase in buck harvest, but a decrease in total deer harvest (300-1600 deer for the 3 counties listed - Broome, Tioga, Delaware)
- Chenango Co. (where I hunt predominantly) actually showed an increase in deer take even without a DMPs issued (no DMPs last year either). they did state that DMAP permits may have scewed that a bit
all is not as bleak as some may think. deer are still there to be taken.
02-27-2006, 11:01 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 4,679
RE: NY Hunters and Atlasman
Hmmmm. This last season I put in about 50-60 hours of treestand time near Oneonta. I saw 1x 4.5 year old buck, 2x 3.5 year old or better bucks, and at least 8-10 others that were 1.5 to 2.5 years old. I also saw countless does. I actually passed a 100" 8 pointer during the first week of November. I think the hunting is great where I have access to hunt, it is about 130 acres just outside the town of Morris. The owner of the property is also on here (APAJaws) and he saw over 15 different bucks on the property this year. Maybe this place is just a small snapshot of what is possible if others in NY would start to manage for a better (not necessarily bigger horned) herd.This property has been managed and has had several acres of food plots on it for many years to help supplement a larger population, and has had light pressure for a LONG time. I can't wait for opening day next season.