atlasman

You are very much in the minority IMO.


It also may not be good.........it certainly isn't good for deer hunting and it's future when you take a teenager into the woods and he sits there for 5 days in the freezing cold and sees nothing...........first impressions last a LONG time and that kid may never see the need to waste another week of his life like that again.


Wouldn't be "too bad" if we were talking about a 14% decline from a respectable number........but we aren't. We are talking about a decline on top of a decline on top of a decline. There is no escaping the fact that they just killed too many deer.


It is much bleaker then some may think........they just don't realize it because they find themselves in an area lucky enough not to have been hit as hard as others by the mismanagement or ignorance of the DEC.

atlasman

Sounds like you have a nice piece of private property to hunt. I have a couple myself......we drill a couple deer there every year and see more then we do anywhere else. I don't consider a local farmer's land when I discuss the condition of the state's deer herd. Spend some time on public lands and you will get a better idea of what most hunters have as an option to enjoy deer hunting. I hunt in many areas that were just plain loaded with deer for more years then I can remember.......now you are lucky to even see one. This state's deer herd has been mismanaged horribly......either through stupidity or on purpose......I can't decide which one is worse.

NCYankee

I head back up North to hunt in Steuben county every November. At night, if I step out on the porch,I can hear the coyotes hunting. I can't evenremember having coyotes 20 years ago. They certainly do a number on the fawns. As far as a season on them...everyday is coyote season in my book (it's the only time I hunt with a rifle)!

ButchA

My sister and brother-in-law talk about hearing coyotes and the rumors going around about how bad they are wiping out farm animals (not to mention deer!) [&:]

I have been following a lot of threads on deer hunting (and also the Northeast forum with all the arguements and flame wars about NY State hunting conditions).

NY State DEC is a total joke! I just can't believe how bad my old home state has gone downhill! [>:][&o][:'(] $75,000 question: WHAT HAPPEND?!?!?

I know my "profile" says I am from Richmond, VA, but that is where I settled when I retired from the USCG. My "home" will always be in Dutchess Co outside Poughkeepsie, NY. We lived in LaGrangeville and had 10 acres of property right near the Taconic Pkwy back in the 60's & 70's.

I remember seeing deer back when I was a little kid. There were no coyotes hunting them down and killing them. Heck, my dad, uncles, etc... used to go hunting back then and never had a problem. (I was too little to go back then, but once I came of age, then had all given it up ).

Anyway, I still visit NY State from time to time visiting friends and relatives. Everytime I go back "home" something has changed. A new shopping plaza, a new mall, new condos, townhouses, $13.5M sprawling mansions for NYCity lawyers.... WTF happend to the peaceful countryside of NY State?!?!?

My sister and brother -in-law retired from Poughkeepsie and now live on a 125 acre farm in Madison Co in the town of Brookfield (central NY area south of Utica/southeast of Syracuse). My brother-in-law told me, anytime I want, to come on up and go hunting on their farm. Cool beans, you know?!?! Sweet... A 125 acre farm all to myself... [8D]

BUT... I talked NY State DEC to find out the rules/regs/policy with a farm/private land and outof state license requirements. HOLY **** is NY State expensive!!! They told me it's $110 for a out of state license. Bowhunting is another $110. Muzzleloader is yet another $110. And here is where I just said forget it: If I want to go bowhunting in NY State (even though I have hunting licenses,bow licenses and firearms certifications and stuff in Virginia), NY State WILL NOT recognize my bow hunting license and I would be required to take a NY State bowhunter education course or IBEP course, just to go bowhunting on my brother-in-law's farm.

Besides NY State DEC has really done some foolish things with the deer management. The deer herds have seriously dwindled either by coyotes or DEC mismanagment of deer tags. My sister (big horse lover and rider/trainer/horse show winner) worries about her prized horses getting attacked by coyotes. She heard a horrible rumor that NY State released coyotes to help manage the deer herd, instead of allowing hunters to do it. Now the deer herd is getting wiped out by packs and packs of coyotes all over the place.

To all NY State hunters: I'm sorry guys... I'm an old New Yorker myself, but I just can't justify going back "home" to hunt. It's not worth it.... [&o][>:] Unless NY State DEC drastically changes things around, there will not be a lot of hunters NOT wanting to go hunting in NY and/or not want to help the next generation of hunters continue with the tradition of hunting!

...just my .02 cents.

Butch A.

Campo

Alright, I have tried to hold my tongue, but I cant anymore. I have dealt with Jim Losie now for about ten years. I have bought many a rifle and shotgun from him. After all those years, I am left with this impression.
The guy, though a gunshop owner, is NO outdoorsman.
Why do you ask?
For one, after talking to many surrounding shops after a fallout I had with him they all told me the same thing...he is overpriced, arrogant, and knows very little about the outdoors, though he does know his guns.
This said, he was one of the last people that the Daily Star should have spoken with about an environmental issues, though alot of hunters do pass through his shop.

You are one lucky guy, let me tell you that. Though, I have one argument to present.
I dont feel that any area within 15 miles of Oneonta (Yes, Morris falls within this boundary) can be used as a "small snapshot" for the rest of the state. I have been a resident of Delaware Country now for 21 years, and have been hunting for 11 of those years, with bow, muzzleloader, rifle. You name it, I have hunted it (As long as there is a season). Oneonta, and the surrounding townships (Morris, Davenport, Milford) all sport higher than average deer populations, as well as a higher buck to doe ratio.
There are a few reasons
A) There are many "unhuntable areas" (ie Hartwick College, Suco, and all the land that falls within the city) that serve as a sanctuary for deer. No hunting, no predators, and alot of food lend themselves to higher deer populations. I was on Hartwick Campus this fall, and had a eight point run in front of me, through a crowd of people changing classes, all the while chasing a hot doe. Everyone thought it was a hoot, myself included. A week later, I approached to within three feet of a ten point, maybe 100"+, before he spooked and ran. Again, he was on a hot doe. Several weeks later, a buck was almost hit by a car, walking next to the administration building at campus.
B) Many people dont think to hunt the areas near the city of Oneonta, mostly because they dont think there will be any deer there. Boy o boy, are they mistaken. It is almost like Long Island, and in recent years the deer population has become "unhealthy" due to its large size. Large bucks wander in and out of the city limits, and during the rut their ranges expand into the surrounding townships, hence the reason that you cannot use this area for a example for the rest of the state.

Believe me, I am real envious of Rick James, and I dont doubt that the foodplots have served to increase the deer herd further, and many bulked up a few of the racks I have been seeing. Still, I feel that reasons Morris has such a great deer herd is genetics hailing from the city limits, as well as roaming bucks who leave the city to chase does, especially in the later season.

The deer population is down, make no mistake about that. Even though I think that, I still saw 6+ nice bucks this year (No shooting chances[&:]) and about 25-30 does. Though everyone seems to think the DEC is doing a pi$$ poor job, one has to ask the question that maybe we were all spoiled during the peak of a cycle when the population is higher than average?

Just my humble opinion folks...

BuckAlley

I don't knowalot about deer management, but I also don't understand the DEC's reasons for lack in population either. The lack of farming, and prime deer habitat has decreased? But yet in the 80's NY's deer population peaked! I certainly agree it needed to be decreased some so deer didn't devour the habitat, but not bythis much. Sure some farms have shut down, but I still see plenty in operation. Timber prices are higher now than ever. Speak to loggers, and its difficult for them to find large tracts of woodlands to cut, that haven't been cut alreadly in recent yrs. I see loggers in areas that I never guessed would log off, and alot of it. Logging means more new growth, and cover for the whitetail. Plus what else have many been doing on the past 5 yrs. Growing our own food plots, and placing mineral licks out. Sure beats those bales of hay people used to place out in the days of old! And our winters, come on. Sure we've had a couple with plenty of snow. But I haven't seen us digging out of 3-4ft storms we used to get in the 80's and earlier. Being stranded in our homes for 2-3days. As a matter of fact, with the exception of a couple of bad ice storms. We haven't had a snow stranding type storm since the 1993 blizzard. Its been a long time since we've had a real hard winter with depths of 4 ft plus most winter long. I also haven't seen the wks upon wks of 10-20 below temps. We seem to only get short spells of minus temps now. Our winters are nothing like I recall used to be. I say the DEC is making excuses for a overly decreased deer population mistake. A 49% harvest decrease since 2002 says it all!!!

doughboysigep

I beg to differ. We have had 2 fairly hard winters (before this year). For the most part a constant snow cover from Dec/Jan- March. There doesn't need to be 4 ft. of snow to be a "hard" winter.2 ft is plenty tough on deer and we have had that the past 2 winters (at least at my camp). yes the winters do vary across the state, but in general they have been tough on deer. now this year there will ne no one (DEC included) that can say the winter had a detrimental effect on the deer.

NY Bowhunter

I kind of like the challenge of working even harder for a mature buck[8D][:-]