RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

Shoot what makes you happy, easy as that, if you're going to have any remorse when its dead, let it walk..decide before you enter the woods what you want and what you will satisfy your needs.

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

And the war rages on. I will say this Wolfen, you will NEVER be able to tell people to let the smaller ones go....God gave everybody FREE WILL. That being said, I started hunting for mature bucks a few years ago after it seemed to no longer be a challenge to take a younger buck. And before any of the trad guys want to jump, I've killed deer with both trad and compound...that's not the point. As the younger ones get older, YES they get wise to the ways of humans and become harder to get, but it all boils down to being in the right place at the right time.
I always take at least one doe every year for the freezer so I have venison because it is delicious, but after that; I'm after the big boys. One aspect of QDM that is seemingly usually overlooked, but HAS been stated in this very thread is keeping the DOE population in check. If the doe numbers are kept where they're suppose to be, then the population WILL be better off as the DOMINANT bucks will be the ones doing the breeding. If there are too many doe, the lesser bucks are allowed to breed because the bigger bucks are already with a doe. This is where as mentioned earlier that rattling doesn't work because there is simply no competition for breeding rights. It also goes without saying that there will ALWAYS be smaller bucks that need to be culled from the herd for inferior genetics so either way, this debate will forever rage on.
I say to each their OWN; follow what we like to call PDM...Personal Deer Management, if you like it, KILL IT. It's that simple folks, but just because you'll nail the first deer that walks by you doesn't give you the right to come unglued on someone like Wolfen, you can simply agree to disagree. I mean really....does he hunt around you? If he doesn't, then why worry about what he has to say? Get out in a tree and enjoy the scenery...kill whatever you want.

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

If one loves bowhunting and one respects the prey in which he hunts then one would responsibly do what is best for the betterment of the herd of the prey in which one hunts...ergo, to let young bucks go, so they can grow and to aid in balancing buck-to-doe ratios by harvesting does instead which is biologically factually proven to be the best condition for a herd to be in is quite simply the right thing to do. More and more state DNR's are realizing this and passing the almighty legislation that many drones seem to require as a guide before making a responsible decision. Having access to an abundance of land, outfitters, baiting, high fences, and on and on is not a part of this equation. There are often limits, laws, and restrictionson the size of a fish one can keep and there evidently must be on the size of a buck a hunter can take for so many people to ever be accepting of the concept which is unfortunate. [:o]

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

Unless your its your first deer or your going hungry, for God sakes is it too much to ask to let the spikes and 4-pointers have a chance to mature?? If you go out hunting and stick a spike rather than the doe standing right next to him, don't expect people like me to "RESPECT" your decision. Things like "I bought my tags" and "I'm gonna fill my freezer with any deer I can" makes hunters look bad... not the guys who couldhavekilled the same spike but choose not too... When I see some experienced 40-year-old hunter checking in his 4 pt at the check station it makes me physically sick. Actually it makes me embarrassed for him. Kinda the equivalent of beating up a sixth grader and being proud of it. Here's an idea, next spike that walks by your stand, draw... aim.... and then back the bow down...Trust me, its a far better feeling than killing it.

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: davidmil

Shoot whatever makes you happy. IF you like the looks of that little 4 point or 6 point... or if you don't like his looks... go ahead and whack 'em if it'll make you happy and it's legal. We have enough laws without having to follow the "Laws of Wolfen" or the laws of "I Wanna-bigger-buck". In fact, I think it's good we just KILL a little bugger once in a while so the anti's can't say it's all about trophys and big horns. It's hunting and it's suppose to be fun. It's not about shooting "THE BIG ONE" always nor should it be. Take a look at this... NOW THIS IS A HAPPY FACE!!!! I like that much better than seeing Wolfen or Jackie Bushwhacker with the next world record.


"laws of wolfen"...that's it, villanize me for trying to educate hunters on doing what is best for deer herds nationwide and hunters nationwide. In reality, if hunters were more educated on the FACTS OF DEER BIOLOGY and not using barbaric logic, like....."In fact, I think it's good we just KILL a little bugger once in a while so the anti's can't say it's all about trophys and big horns."...then the anti's wouldn't stand a chance!

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

My work here is done.[8D][8D]

One parting remark. Around here I can shoot a 1 1/2 year old buck and have 120-130 pound deer.... OR.... I can shoot a 1/ 1/2 year old doe and have a 70 pound deer. If I get that buck at two he weighs mayb 150-160. Why that doe is now a whopping 80-90 pounds.My buck is still young enough to be real tasty and he's more than a puppy dog. Now the "MATURE" deer of 4 or 5 years old(You know...the one with the BIG HORNS) he may weigh in at 165-200, he's tough as nails and stinks like hell. WHo wants to put something like that in their brand new truck.[8D][8D][8D]

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

Hey if someone wants to hit from the ladies Tee go ahead.:D:DPersonally I am not shooting small bucks.The biggest beef I have is the I have to shoot a buck mentality!The experienced hunters that have to kill a buck even though their area's are over run with doe's.So the naive little buck's get whacked and the ratio's get further out of balance.I am pretty certain the meat from a doe taste's the same as the meat from a buck.
As the deer biologist from NYS said when asked where all the big bucks are,as a person in the audience complained that he was not seeing any mature bucks,the biologist said they are home in your horn box.
I would never do anything out side of a conversation with another hunter or in this setting to divide our ranks,and I would be the first person to congratulate a new hunter on any animal they have taken and to offer encouragement.But to mister or missus I just shot my 20th four pointer that would not be the case.
This is my opinion only and I am pretty certain I have a right to it!

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

Help me understand this "new" concept... I grew up hunting for any game to bring home and eat. I didn't hunt for "mature" rabbits,squirrels or birds,they were all the same to me. I used to see "shooter" deer racks at the curb in the garbage. When did deer become so special compared to any other animal in the woods? I always took what was available and enjoyed the meal. I never hunted for sport or bragging rights. Looks like things have changed...
P.S. I took up bow hunting because it gave me more time in the woods for deer...which had alot more meat than a rabbit.

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

So , if a hunter shoots three doe and then shoots a small buck , is that acceptable to the QDMr's? It's all about QDM right?

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

I know I give you QDM'ers a tough time. I probably shoot as many or more does than most of you. My problem with the whole thing is thatit's NOT a necessity to have a QUALITY herd to only shoot the mature bucks. MOST of those pushing it are really, in my opinion, nothing more than BIG HORN hunters. Herd quality would be a cross representation of all age groups and sexes.We all shoot does so don't preach that you should let the small buck walk and shoot only mature bucks. Most state laws are designed to keep herd sizes in control. When we start feeding, planting, supplementingand "GROWING" a herd that would otherwise NOT be sustainable on a piece of land... we've changed the whole deal. That's what QDM has become today. Raising cattle/deer to a lot of folks. They call it QDM... but that's just a smoke screen for "Look at me, I shot THE BIG ONE". It's not hunting....it's shooting. Most of you don't remember the days when getting a deer.... ANY deer was something special. Many states had NO season. I remember. Now we have the QDM'ers trying to shame us into not enjoying the spirit of the hunt and the adventures in the woods. It's all about having a bigger horn. How dare you tell me what I should and shouldn't do. How dare you belittle some guy for shooting a deer and being happy with it. All do not have private lands, time to scout, or time to hunt like some of you. They get a couple days here or there or an hour here or there. They like the meat, they like the hunt. They like to shoot a deer. And YES Dorothy, THEY KILL IT. THey don't "Harvest it". They just plain and simple kill it dead. They have fun, they puff out their chest a little and are proud of their hunt. I salute all who enjoy the game and make it fun for others. I don't care if my buddy has shot 200 deer. If he shoots a 4 pointer I tell him congrats, take a picture and see if I can help out with taking care of the meat. I'm proud of my buddy for enjoying himself. If someone gets in his face... I tell them to stuff it. He's my friend, he had fun and you aren't going to spoil it for him.

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

MY STATE SETS THE BOUNDARIES OF WHAT I CAN AND CAN NOT SHOOT, AND AS LONG AS I FOLLOW THE RULES AND REGULATIONS, I AM WELL WITHIN MY GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO SHOOT WHAT I WANT WHEN I WANT, EVERYONE ELSES OPINION ON THIS MATTER MEANS "JACK BONE" TO ME!

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

Ijust want some of you guys who don't shoot anything but mature bucks to come on down and hunt here where I hunt. I have been hunting for over 20 years I have 3 deer mounted. I have killed several other bucks that I have on plaques and many many does. Now if I only shot mature bucks that would equate to one every ten years on average. Is that your definition of hunting? I hunt because i enjoy it ad for deer MEAT. If I or anyone else chooses to take a legal deer and anyone has a problem with it...well guess what they can do. Its easy to pass on small bucks when you go out and see rack bucks every day but that's not the case here. Shoot what you want and be happy stop trying to force your own beliefsand "ethics" on everyone else;)

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

turtleshell, know why there aren't many mature bucks where your at?? 'Cause people like you kill them before they get mature... Hey, why not just shoot a fawn??? They're really curious and will walk right up on you. The meat is ohh so tender, and they're a lot easier to drag back to the truck. [&:]

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

Oh, sorry... I meant

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

this is a great topic ...........heres my .02, Im 34 yrs old and from the age of 5 to about 25...i took small bucks , does, etc. when i reached 25 i felt a change inside me, sort of an evolution if you will, i found that what i enjoyed the most was hunting mature bucks...and they are what i have exclusively hunted for the past 9 years. ive eaten lots of 'unfilled tag ' soup in the past 9 years and have lets hundreds of deer walk by me. Its more fulfilling for me to let a small 8 pt walk by than it would be for me to shoot him. If i want to fill a tag at the end of the year and i havent taken a mature buck i have no problem taking a doe, but ill never shoot a small buck. However, if others wish to take any legal deer then i say go for it...in the end its whats pleasing to us as individuals, its what makes each of our outdoor experiences rewarding... of course every trophy hunter wishes that every OTHER hunter would pass on all the small bucks but thats just unrealistic and will never happen, so i say do what makes you happy.

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

They sure are...:)

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

Amen brother. What is even more fulfilling than letting a small one walk,is to see that same deer the following year in the same spot, sporting a much nicer rack. To each there own but I am with wvOHIOfan on this one.

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

Deer have been around for a pretty long time........their numbers used to be pretty low in many areas.........now in many states the deer populations are over a million and most game commisions would say the problem today is there are too many deer. Speaking from personal experience I know that when I was a kid you couldn't even get a doe permit by yourself...........now you can get 2 and have someone else sign over 2 more to you making 7 tags total.

That would be a massive success story to any person who truely cared about wildlife and nature........the goal of a dwindling species is to restore numbers to a self sustaining point.............take bald eagles as a nice example.

But you guys don't care about deer......or herds......or ratios.....or any of the crap that you list as a noble smokescreen for your lust of antlers.......you just want more deer in the woods with bigger racks so it will be easier to get your fix.

I don't know why you have such a hard time admitting that you just want more big racked bucks walking around so it will be easier to kill one.

I have a question for you though.........where does it end??? If every hunter didn't kill small racked bucks and the woods was as full with 120-140 class deer as it is now of 4 and 6 pt 1 1/2 yr olds would that be good enough??.........not by your logic. you would look at those bucks as non shooters now and would cry to let them walk..........then 160-180 then 180-200??




You have to be kidding. Any DNR that is passing antler regs is doing so because of money........pure and simple. They see the money that hunters pay every year to go to the big deer hunting states and stay in their hotels and eat at their restaurants and buy their out of state tags. They know that horn humpers are willing to pay big bucks to show everyone how great of a hunter they are so they are trying to get a piece of the ever growing pie. MMTWGA.





This is another beauty.........fish regs are in place for 2 reasons. First of all you can catch and release a fish so it makes it a lot easier to work with. Secondly, these regs are in place to keep fish numbers at acceptable levels........not to provide "trophy" fish..........they want a kid to be able to go to a stream and toss in a line and actually catch a fish or two........no matter what the size.......imagine that [:o] Now imagine when that young kid hooks that fish he was told he couldn't fight it and bring it in because it wasn't "big enough"..............sounds pretty stupid huh?? Same thing is gonna happen when you sit a kid in a treestand and tell him not to get excited and just sit there because he isn't aloud to shoot the deer he is looking at because it isn't "big enough"

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

Hey PSEBO, Feel free to use these.

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

I thought they were so much wiser and harder to hunt if you let them walk? Guess not........if you keep seeing him year after year and the only thing that keeps him alive is your decision not to kill him............that isn't smart......it's lucky ;)

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

Come on guys, you don't live in 1800's where we did not have a store where we could get food like we can now. You don't need to shoot everything that comes within bow range, if you want meat, does are certainly better tasting, so shoot the skinheads. If it is a trophy you are after let the small ones go, and shoot the big ones.

I to find it sad that someone would shoot anything, because that is not hunting, that is killing. And that is why we get a bad rap from people, because we are seen as the killers, not someone who actually goes out and hunts. I hunt all season, I have never harvested a deer in October, I have harvested every deer in November or December, that gives me an opportunity to shoot a monster in October, but most likely I will wait till the rut, because I see the most bucks then!

Let them grow!!!

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

And I don't know why you have such a hard time admitting that you just want to KILL SOMETHING... and will take anything to get YOUR fix!!!

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

"I hunt all season, I have never harvested a deer in October, I have harvested every deer in November or December, "


I've never harvested a deer...I kill them. the only thingI harvest is grain.

Like davidmil said "SMOKE SCREEN"

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

Call it what you like Atlasman. I call it skill and experience. Something you obviuosly dont need because you shoot the first thing that comes your way.

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

I got an idea. How about letting some of those mature ones walk to pass on their proven genes and filling your buck tag with a forkie... one that might not have decent genetics and might still be a forkie five years from now?

This 'shoot only mature bucks' stuff just doesn't make any sense to me at all. No other predator in the whole world chooses to take only the prime stock out of a herd. They always take the young, weak and sick. That's nature's way of making the herd stronger and improving the genetics of the species.

Man is a different predator because our species has something no other predator has. Ego. In my opinion, this QDM stuff is entirely ego driven. A minority of hunters wanting to make it easier to massage their ego with big racks hanging on their wall.

Not that I'm criticizing my fellow hunters, you understand...:eek: That's just the way I see it.

Horns or slickhead, big, little or in between doesn't make a bit of difference. If it's legal, and if it's an animal I want, I'm shooting. QDM...[:'(]

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

QDM , in its essence , is an honorable and sound wildlife management practice. I do think there are some out there , however, who use it as a euphamism when they are really just after ego therapy.
We really can't compare ourselves to other predators, though, because predators don't use bows, broadheads, camo , etc, in their pursuits.
What I can say is that I pass up smaller bucks. I shoot does like crazy, and my family eats everyone of them. I normally luck out once or twice a year on mature bucks. We eat them too. I pass a ton of smaller bucks. That's what makes me tick. I don't send pictures in to magazines or hang them up at the check-in station. I started passing up young bucks about 10 years ago, and I've learned more about bowhunting since than I did in the fifteen years prior to that. Here's the thing. EVERYTHING I do makes sense to me. It's legal, ethical and it just feels "right". I'm hooked on that feeling of walking up on a monster buck that is 5 years old or older, that nobody has ever laid eyes on. I can't help but wonder at and respect such an animal. That's a scenario that usually only happens once a year, if I'm lucky. I can't describe that feeling to you, but if you've been there ,you know. Those are the moments I live for. Again, that's what makes me tick and that's what is right to me. I make no apologies for it.

HOWEVER, I don't feel like that's for everybody, and I'm glad. They say it takes all kinds to make the world go round. I think that's true with hunting. If a guy gets a thrill out of shooting a spike, then go for it. At the end of the day we have to live with ourselves,nobody else. We have tohold our head up high, and take pride in what we do and who we are. Although I don't shoot immature bucks, I'm all for you doing it if you have that gratified feeling at the end of the day. Shoot spikes till you drop dead if that's what does it for you, I'll never say a word. It's all about honesty, spotsmanship ,ethics, and individuality..

I will say this though, If you have killed several deer already, maybe this year you can try to pass up younger deer. Go ahead and let 'em walk. Not because what you have been doing is wrong, but because I believe if you do you'll learn more and enjoy more than you ever have in bowhunting. And i could be wrong. But maybe try it and see how YOU feel from your own experience.;)

Good huntin'! - cap

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

You have stores that sell venison?? Weird.........I don't.

I prefer free ranging natural venison that I take from field to freezer with no one in between but me, my bow or gun and a few sharp knives.

If you want to eat hormone and drug saturated beef from who knows where and who knows what conditions then be my guest.


I have never noticed does tasting any better then bucks.


What if you are not after a "trophy".......or maybe your definition of "trophy" is different?? Then what?


Very silly.

People who have a problem with hunting are people who absolutely can't get past the fact that something gets killed..........period. If you actually think they will feel better knowing you waited for one with a bigger rack then you have are sadly mistaken.

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

zac76156- Everyone else here is having a civilized conversation and posting their opinion. You jump in just critisizing the heck out of everyone who shoots small bucks. Thats life, get over it. The whole world doesnt revolve around you. Do you hunt for squirrels and rabbits? Do you just shoot the "mature" ones because we all know how good them "mature" squirrels and rabbits taste dont we?;)You say it embarrases you to see an expierienced hunter check in a 4 pointer or a spike. It embarreses you to call him a hunter right? Well if you go back and read you previous post you should relize that you are just embarassing yourself because if you call yourself a fellow hunter you will learn to respect others for what they kill. Hunting is not a pissing contest to see who can shoot the big deer if it is then you need to go look in a dictionary and look up the word"hunt." Hunting is a hobby that most people do to get out of the house and go out and have a little fun. You should go out to the woods and be able to shoot what ever you want and take pride in it without having someone jump down your throat. As i said in my previous post hunting land is very little around my area without paying. I see maybe a total of 10 deer a year walk through where a hunt and thats including all 3 months so some of us have to take what we can.

Look i didnt want to single you out but you gave me no choice because everyone else was being civilized about this besides YOU. It embarasses you to see people killing small bucks well it embarasses me to see a fellow hunter act like you are acting. So do me a favorand think about what you are posting next time before you post.

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

When did I ever have a hard time admitting that?? I had 7 deer in my freezer last year and we are out of meat. If I have a tag for it and it's in range...........it's in trouble ;)

I do need my fix..........my sausage fix, my steak fix, my chops fix, my tenderloin fix, my jerky fix, my roast fix.


Your turn ;)

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

TAKE ME HOME SPIRIT...I DONT LIKE THIS PLACE


IS ANYBODY HUNTING TODAY????

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

Experience in what???............seeing the same deer year after year and being able to kill it numerous times..........then decide it has grown enough to kill it??........then pretend that this time he walked by you was just a lucky mistake made by an almost unhuntable crafty ghost of the woods...........unlike the the times he walked by you previously right??

Face it.......the only reason he is alive is because you let him be..........that is good fortune, not good instincts.

It's really no different then farming..............it's all a matter of when you pick the crop.

Someone else had a problem with their definition of hunting earlier..........how does "growing" deer fit into that equation and I wonder how the anti's would feel about that?

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

You haveobviously confused my posts with someone else. I have never given a definition of a hunternor have I mentioned anything about "anti's".

I suggest you recheck the previous posts and directyour comments towards the right people.

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

This entire QDM garbage started out in Texas on these million dollar ranches where it costs $20,000 to kill a freaking buck.... This Texas "hunting" mentality is killing hunting.......

Next it spread to the midwest farmland, where let's face it, the hunting in 100 times easier than the big woods of the South, East, and North....

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

I don't think it can be conveyed any better than what captain backstrap has said!In my original post about this I made comments about someone taken their 20th four pointer and how I would not be in agreement with that,I could have expressed that better,If someone treats the animal with respect and is not embarassed of it and is proud than I am okay with that.I know a number of very experienced bow hunters that go into panic mode if the season is winding down and they hav'nt shot "their buck" and they will shoot any antlered buck that comes along and then apologize to any one who will listen to their BS about it."I know I shouldn't have shot it but this but that".
For me personally I get fulfillment out of working at getting opportunities at bigger bucks.We are all ego driven,even those who have mastered complete humility conduct themselves that way to satisfy their ego,it satisfies them and makes them feel good to act in that manner.I believe the most important aspect of this is gratitude.If you choose to discuss that you were fortunate enough to kill a large buck,the gratitude and humility that is associated with how you discuss it are the most important elements!
If you are look at me aren't I great,that is a person that I would not want to be associated with.The people that consistently kill big deer but are reserved and humble about it are the hunters I most admire and likely the ones that I would most likely learn the most from.

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

Hey Atlas, it ends with Jack "The Joke" Brittingham letting 180+ bucks walk b/c they aren't 6 1/2 yrs old yet [:'(]

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

Well I gotta tell ya, as I sit here and enjoy a very tasty plate of 6.5 year old, 200 inch buck venison spaghetti I have enjoyed reading the productive debate on this topic and I can't help but think that this venison tastes so much better knowing it wasn't one of asslatman's button bucks for it would have taken 4-5 of them to equal the meat I got off this guy.:D

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

BTW...it aint easy to hunt themidwest...

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

NICE PICTURE

RE: Let 'em go and let 'em grow
 

You know that callin atlasman what you did was very uncalled for. I think you are getting a little scared because this thread just didnt turn out quite the way you thought it would. There seems to be alot more people against you than you thought and now you dont really have much to say so you resorted to name calling which as far as im concerned shouldnt be tolerated on the forums. You are being very childish about this. People shoot what they want and take pride in it. Deal with it! Enought said! You said that you havent posted in a while right? Maybe you should go back to that. You really need to quit instigating.