mobow

Here in Missouri, the Conservation Department changed its lawsin 29 counties stating a legal buck has to have 4 points of at least one inch on one side. As you can imagine, there have been some heated debates about this. As I was reading a magazine last night, a gentleman from northern Missouri was all in a bunch over this. He says that it is the beginning of the end of hunting, and that since he can no longer shoot a small buck, he cannot as effectively provide food for his family. That is the condensed version.
Now, here is my thought, I want to see if you agree or disagree with me. Yes, probably the first year or two he will have to pass up several "illegal" bucks. But, wouldn't it stand to reason that after a couple of years it will even out, and there will be more "legal" bucks to shoot anyway, thus making his opportunity for a harvest higher again?
I know I had to let 3 bucks walk last year because of this, and yes, it was frustrating, but, I know in the long run it will be worth it. Everybody's idea of a trophy buck is different. Myself, I have never shot a buck with my bow, so a 2x2 would be a trophy. But not for others. It is my opinion that this law was established to grow bigger bucks, (obviously) but not so much to benefit the heard as to bring in out of state dollars for tags.

Do you support this type of rule, or not?

Trapper_Hunter

In way i would support it to get bigger bucks but in another way I dont becauseif some little kid is hunting for his or hers first deer it will be HARD to tell them they cant shoot it because it isn't big enough

Buckhunter 17

i would say no. i would go for this law, but it leaves out the only thing. QDM, if everyone goes and shoots a younger deer that has the very minimum antler requirements. then the entire herd suffers from bad genetics. if the deer can't grow to its optimum genetic level then he will never breed a doeto that level. i my self have started to try and practice QDM over the last 2 yrs now. i think it will start to effect theherd this year mainly, because a friend and i have chosen certain bucks to take. we have taken outall of the 6 pt deer that we have seen, only to have better herd genetics.this last year we took out a deer that was suffering from a old wound and was limping very badly, he was a 8 with a HUGE blood clot in his neck and around his heart. his shoulder bone was nearly exposed, and looked like he had been shot before, havign missing a peice of meat between one of his ribs. in the long run he might have produced some good genetics, but not being able to breed that year,we decided to take him out.

im not saying that everyone has to practice QDM, but i think it would be better if everyone tried. thislaw also doesn'tallow first timers and small kids to go out and killtheir first buck. they don't care if the deer has a huge rack or some unusual thing going on with the rack.it is the fact that they shot a buck.

Zach

rile1564

PA has a similar law. most of the state is restricted to 3 points per side. The western part of the state there are a few WMU's that are restricted to 4 points. Within the past 2 years I've notice more bigger racked buck. Which was nice. As far as youth hunting goes. I believe youth hunters in PA aren't restricted but the AR.

Also like to state that genetics have NOTHING to do with age. The same genes any animal is born with they will die with, they don't change, ever! So allowing a young deer to breed or an older deer to breed will have nothing to do with the offsprings rack. Now as deer get older, like in humans, there are chances of mutations in the offspring. A yearling can breed a doe and the offspring will have the same chance of having a nice rack, as a doe that was breed by an older buck. Assuming that the younger buck and older buck have comparable genetics. Taking out the six point bucks may not be good QDM if the bucks are young. Who's to say that next year they wouldn't be 8 pt or better.

kevin1

Your scenario presumes that ARs work the way you think they will . In order for that to happen all of your "brown and downers" would have to cooperate , a rather unlikely prospect . Implementing ARs only in specific counties rather than statewide will only encourage poaching or game waste if somebody shoots the wrong deer .

I live in a state that doesn't impose ARs other than a one buck rule , and I love it . The only thing I dislike more than somebody other than DNR telling me what to shoot is somebody doing it on the pretext that it "helps the herd" or "improves the hunting" . When I hit the woods I should be able to determine what looks best to me , and if that happens to be a forkie for the freezer then that should be my choice if it's legal .

WindsorArcher

No, I don't support it because not every buck out there is genetically disposed to growing a minimum of 7 or 8 antler points. If these "lesser" deer can't be removed from the herd, they continue to pass on their genes. Plus, you're removing the "better" deer, possibly before they can pass on their genes. It's not a good idea. Also, you're leaving older bucks that may be past growing that many points, and those deer still make delicious steaks and burgers.

If the state really wants to grow bigger bucks, decrease the number of antlered tags and increase the doe tags. You'll get bigger bucks in a couple of seasons, and people who depend on venison for food will still fill their freezers.

-DeerSlayer-

I have never, i mean NEVER agreed on the "4x4" management rule. why? because you see many...MANY young 1 1/2 year old deer with 4 points on each side, so it would make it legal to shoot a young deer, but they are trying to get bigger, more mature deer? If the states had any sence at all, they would switch it to either and antler size limit or an age limit. This 4x4 rule is just plain idiotic, and I laugh at every state that uses it. There are many older deer that have less then 4 points on one side as well. this year I shot a management buck that had 3 points on each side. U have to use logic while practicing QDM. Do what the outfitters do, look at the results for god sakes. 90% of the outfitters use an antler size limit. 4x4 is just stupid, you cannot manage the herd with this lame excuse that they use. Use age and/or a size limit...ie 125inch minimum. The states are ruining the management plan for mature bucks who are under 8 points, because U arent allowed to shoot them, which means they breed, which means that they spread their bad genetics. Cmon DNR, use some common sense.

btomlin

It wouldn't be "hard" to tell them they can't shoot it because it is too small...it'd beeasy tellthem they can't shoot it because its ILLEGAL.

I just don't see it working if you have to tell someone they have to do it this way...Goes back to educating people on what makes the herd stronger.

I disagree with "AR"s because you've just made a target out of your best specimens leaving the worst to 'further' the herd.

HAZCON7

DeerSlayer, you assume that everyone can judge age with 100% accuracy - I'd hate to lose my license for a year because the 3x3 buck looked 3 1/2 and turned out younger. The only accurate way to judge age as we all know is by their teeth and I've never seen a deer smiling in the woods - nor do they have photo id.

I'm not necessarily for the antler restriction, but not necessarily against it either. As for the gentleman who can "no longer shoot a small buck, [therefore] cannot as effectively provide food for his family" He can still harvest does can he not? Or is his pride so big that he'd rather starve the family?

rile1564

Hazcon7- 2 Years ago I saw a deer smile after I missed him twice. haha