A Hunter's Conscience
 

It's what drives them to come here and ask questions about hunting over a pile of corn or shooting deer from a double decker bus. They pay people to pen up a big one in a cage, shoot it and then come to the boards trying to rationalize it.

They are cheating. They know it, we know it. Everyone else know's it. When they are sitting in the living room stareing at a big taxidermy bill and downing another beer trying to feel better about it, they look at that mount and see a big bait pile, a truck or the dollar signs in the guide's eyes as he is screaming "Shoot you green a$$ idiot!"

Just look at the trophy pictures at Hunt101 or Jesse's. How many "trophy" pictures do you see with a the big bait pile they have to thank in front? How many tour bus's in the back round? How many times you think they are dragging that deer away from the fence to "get a better picture"?

They are cheats and liars. They come here asking about it because they are cheats and liars and they know they are. They want the forgiveness of hunters sayin it is OK and a little pat on the back from momma.

If they weren't, the question would never even come up.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

I think in some cases you may be right, however you don't have to have a guilty consience to question the actions of others, do you?

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

The part I like is when they try to justify their ways by saying that as long as it is legal it does not have to be ethical.

Some have no shame , fences and baiting have no place in deer hunting.

The differance in deer killing and deer hunting needs pointed out to a few that just don't seem get it.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

While I am no fan of hunting over a bait pile I hold many of those thoughts without expressing them because I hunt the edges of many corn fields and I hunt near water and I use attracting scents and calls. Those are all bait. Some natural and some man made.......some food and some sexual........but certainly all are bait.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

What makes you decide that we are cheats and liars. I posted that to see what other people think about that. I dont think it is wrong? tell me how that makes me cheating and a liar??? WE all have our diffent oppinions. What makes you think you can question what other people think?

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

"They are cheating. They know it, we know it. Everyone else know's it." That I might say could be one of the most ignorant and perhaps relative statements I've seen in along time.[&o]

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Jack Ryan, you sound like a sad, bitter, old man.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Who the hell are you to juge other people??? Just becouse "YOU" dont think it is right, doesnt give you that right, people like you make me sick!

P.S. I dont really think I would hunt like that either, but that does not give me the right to bash someone else because they do.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

I just cant stand ppl who like to judge ppl like that.. it just pisses me off sooo bad.......

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

The guys who hunt over bait, or behind a mulit-thousand acre ranch that is high fenced, are NOT the guys who come on here and start threads like this one of the ones in question. The guys who start those type of threads are the guys who dont like those methods and are trying to pick a fight with the other side. There just trying to stir the pot. But the bad thing is when guys who hunt over bait etc. start to try and defend their methods. They then are told that they are"trying to rationalize it" or"They want the forgiveness of hunters sayin it is OK and a little pat on the back from momma". Which is total BS.

Threads like this are a complete joke. I DO NOT care if you or anybody else approves of my methods, and I hope most hunters feel this way.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

JR, it must be terribly difficult to keep balancing on that pedestal!!!
I really hope you don't fall. :eek:

I guess you're the type of "hunter" that NEVER alters the natural path of your prey. I mean, the way you talk, you must thinks it's cheating to use rattles, scent lures, grunts, or anything that could make a deer change it's mind.

I guess you think that waterfowlers are cheating when they use decoys and calls too. I'll bet $$$ that when you go fishin', you just use a black barbless hook with no bait, huh? Anything else, would be cheating, right????

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Jack - check with your doctor - he might be able to adjust your meds.

Steve

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

No old Jack does it the right way. He swings from vines in a pink thong with a big ole hunting knife. He lands on their backs and starts hacking away, cuts the heart out and eats it right there on the spot. Or when the big ole buck is getting a drink ole Pink thong is laying in wait under the water. He moves like lightning grabs the 200 class buck by the rack and rodeos him till he can,t take another step. Then the hacking starts all over again. He does it his way, the hard way, the Jack Ryan way.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Ok guys, this needs to stop.

It's fine to disagree with his way ofthinking, but to start attacking him publiclyis going a bit too far.

He didn't name names when he made this post. You can't help but attack him because he's the one you're disagreeing with.

Is the off-season really getting to you guys this bad? :eek:

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Compound shooters are cheats too - just look at all the questions they ask :eek:

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

I don't know if I personaly would have put this in as confrontational of a fashion but, in essence, I do agree with you. However, trying to force my ethics and values on others is not something I feel is right either.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

quote]ORIGINAL: Washington Hunter

I think in some cases you may be right, however you don't have to have a guilty consience to question the actions of others, do you?
[/quote]

Unless it's on public ground, thrown up in public forums,or they ask, I don't question it.

If they want to cheat on their own land it's their business but if they bring up I'll call it as I see it.

I swear hunting used to be something you made your own rules and did for your self. Now the lawyers, TV and bull crap magazines turn it in to some kind of "team sport". More and more instead of reflecting the person it's bringing everything about the city right in to hunting. Lying greedy back stabbers and cheats.

Stealling tree stands and spiking each other's bait piles, shooting froma double decker bus and what ever else.

Cheaters know it when they are doing it. That's why they feel guilty and need to come here to "get permission" from anybody who will agree with them on some cockemamie "ethics" thread.

Ifya would tell the whole truth whenya show yer mother what you've done then do it. If you've ever stood in front of that mount and felt the need to leave out a few facts or rearrange 'em a little...

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

There's a lot of BS and jokes around here all right.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

I wouldn't try to respond to all your red herring bait there but I can tell you I never felt the need to point at some dufus on a bus shooting deer in a pen over bait and use it to excuse anything I ever did.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Jacko,

Can you be more specific about the things that are and aren't ethical? Maybe you could enlighten more of us...........

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Hmmmmmm......here we go again. Believe I've heard this one before.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Washington, you can brown nose ole jack all you want, that,s your fettish. When he comes on here telling people how they can hunt or should hunt,there are going to be replies. Who cares if he didn,t name names, people who made those post on the last topic knew who he was talking about. I don,t hunt over bait or behind high fences, but if I wanted to and it was legal in my state I would do it.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Sooooooo now we are all gonna sit here and judge JACK?Jack,i think you'll add alot of excitement to this forum--you sure know what buttons to push:D.You don't know anyone that goes by the handle c903 do you?:D[8D]

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

I notice that treestands and mechanical releases weren't mentioned in Jack's tirade. So, obviously, there is a level of "cheating" he's comfortable with.;)

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

It isn't a matter of brown nosing anyone, Motown. There has been a lot of this crap going on in here lately and it's getting old - fast. It seems like the same thing happens every year right around this time. If you're not mature enough to just let him whine about what he thinks is right and what he thinks is wrong without having to try and take him down a peg or two, then you've got a lot of growing up to do.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Hmmm, I guess your right. It does take two to tango!! It just sounded more like an attack on fellow hunters to me than an opinion. Sorry

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

I don't view treestands or releases as cheating at all. If you look at things that way then anything other then your bare hands is cheating.........and I guess you would have to be naked as well.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

The problem is where do you draw the line? When is it ethical, when is it cheating? By cheating I would assume you mean poaching, and there are laws for that. If you don't agree with them then try to get them changed. I agree with some of the others, who decided you were the one that chooses what is ethical or cheating for someone else? Oh, you did I guess, I certainly didn't bestow that burdon on you.

And I think everyones version of ethical is different. To me being ethical is about how you treat the animal. Like doing what it takes to insure that the animal suffers the least. Like not taking high percentage shots like too long of a distance or shooting at moving game. A gun hunter could argue that bow hunting is not ethical becuase it is not as effective. And a compound hunter could argue that traditional shooters are unethical because you have less power and don't use sights and stuff. Making it much easier to wound an animal. You can take this line of thinking in any direction you want really. There will always be someone that thinks the other is wrong.

I highly doubt the people doing these things are coming on here asking these questions or looking for sympathy or forgiveness . If they thought what they were doing was wrong they would not do it. And they certainly wouldn't come here and let everyone one know if they were doing something they thought was wrong. While I don't care much for some of the things you mentioned like hunting off a buss or shooting penned animals I don't consider it cheating or unethical. It's not much different than raising pigs and cattle and killing one to slaughter. I have never met anyone that did this or took a guided hunt and lied about how they obtained the animal. If they were happy with what they did, then more power to them I guess. If you don't want to do that, then don't.

I hunt from a treestand and bait, because it is legal where I live and I will do what ever is legal to harvest deer. I didn't pay for deer tags to go nature watching, I could do that for free. And the state doesn't issue tags so you don't shoot deer. Why do you think the laws in some places get easier? Because we are not harvesting enough deer. I could argue that it's because of trophy hunters, but I don't. I don't think a few handfulls of corn on the edge of a 200 acre corn field is going to exactly make the deer flock to my stand. Baiting is not that effective. I use it to get the deer to stop so I can make a clean shot on a relaxed animal. If you don't agree with that then I don't think you are a very ethical hunter either.

I gun hunt as well, so I guess that makes me evil and my opinion probably doesn't even count.

Dan, I agree with you, personal attacks and just being mean to someone is not a great thing. However he posted this thread looking for these sort of responses so I wouldn't get too upset when it actually happens.

Paul

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Jack RyanPlease descibe how you hunt each fall, what you hunt with, what your goals are etc etc and I'll be more than happy to rip you apart for it.

Deal ?

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

As the resident Evil Administrator Guy, I think I need to step in here and say "No you won't".

This thread is walking the line right now, so let's start playing nice.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Before this thread gets locked..... can someone post the link for one of those Double Decker Air Conditioned Shooting Tower Buses. That sounds a whole lot more comfortable than an API at 20 feet.[&:];)

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Well jack sure got the sh1t to hit the fan!

Maybe we should take a little more open minded look at some of these issues.

Comparing baiting to a food plot is just plain dumb, a food plot of less than an acre is not worth planting most are many acres.the food plot is there all winter after the season is over and deer can go into a food plot from any direction .

The kill a deer any way possible attitude really needs to change.With all the gadgets & gimicks.We as hunters seem to have lost a lot of the resepect for the deer we hunt.I am not against using equipment to make our hunts safer and more enjoyable but some really push this to the limit.To fence deer in a pen and than say you are hunting them is just wrong, you may be killing them but are hardly hunting them.Shooting deer out of a truck is another thing that just does not seem ethical,If you are handicaped and have the proper permits then good for you.But for an able bodied man to ride around on roads and shoot a deer is not deer hunting ,it too is deer killing.

As the voting shows more of you out there think hunting over bait is ok , but somethings are just not right. Here in PA we have people that bait too , we call them poachers!

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

HNIJustin my point is, I can easily tear down his "ethical" unless he hunts pure traditional on public land on the grouns with clothes he wove from natural fibers.

in light of that, can we all say hypocritical ?

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Hypocritical.......Jack it's your turn;)

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Hey everybody! Bow season is just around the corner! In a couple of months or so we can go out and do it over bait or not over bait. Fences or no fences. We are all hunters so we can disagree but not get personal about it (too much).;)

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Good God, what in the world happend here? I read all through these threads, and my first reaction was

Please do not lump me into some category about bait piles or high fences or double decker buses (what, are we hunting in England?!? :eek:)

I am a public land hunter and have to fend for myself and work hard for any game animals that might happen to venture my way.... As far as a conscience, I believe in the most quickest, fastest, most ethical shot to harvest a deer. Last season I remember watching a teeny tiny yearling doe come not even 25 yards from my stand. Did I shoot her? No. I couldn't.... She was just a little bitty thing and would be like shooting someone's dog. That's how tiny she was. I chose to let her pass in hopes her daddy would be strolling nearby. It was good practice on being quiet, still, and just watching her walk by. She never knew I was 22' up in a Summit Viper tree stand! [8D]

When I finally get my chance to bag a trophy, it will have been very hard earned. I will most likely end up kneeling down beside it and thanking God. To me - that is what hunting is all about. The originator of this whole thread needs to understand that.

{gets off soapbox}
Butch A.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Hey atlasman... Note the quotation marks I put around the word "cheating". I was using Jack's word, not mine. Ever heard of "sarcasm"? ;)

But, you see, there is a bit of irony buried in my comment as well. That someone could use every technological advantage in other aspects of his hunting, and/or plants food plots within shooting distance of his favorite stand sites, would balk at something as mundane as setting out a few feeders on his property... where legal, of course.... Something about that just sounds a bit disengenuous to me.

For myself, I've never made any secret of the fact that I prefer using a recurve or longbow for my hunting. I don't much care for using release aids, even for target shooting. In fact, if there's one gadget I wouldn't mind seeing limited only to the handicapped, the mechanical release is it. Just my opinion.

Top all that off with the fact that I've never hunted from a treestand in my life. I like being eye to eye with the animals I hunt.

I prefer from going out and finding my quarry -actually hunting for it. And when I do find it, I'm planning my approach, taking wind and cover into account; then stalking to within 20 yards, which is generally my sure kill range with my stickbow. Then I face the challenge of getting into position to draw my bow and get the shot off while remaining undetected... THAT, my friend, is my idea of what it really means to go hunting with a bow.

If you've never done it that way, you can't imagine the adrenaline rush you get when that arrow hits home. All the mistakes and just plain bad luck you've had on dozens of other stalks are forgotten and your hard work has paid off. That's what makes it special.

No, I don't take a lot of deer doing it my way, but the satisfaction I get when it does work out right makes it all worthwhile. I have pitted my woodsmanship skills against the animal's defenses and won. If I just wanted meat, it's a lot easier - and a lot cheaper - to go hunting for meat in the supermarket.

Sitting on my butt in a treestand, with a compound, sights, mechanical release and an arrow I'm slinging so fast I can use one pin out to 40 yards.... Well, I just couldn't do it. I'd be bored to tears within a half hour.

By the way, I have had many opportunities in early October here in Texas to go deer hunting wearing nothing but a pair of cutoffs and sneakers. No, I wasn't naked, but I wasn't far from it. Of course, I was doing that in the days when I was much younger and not so visually unpleasant as I am now. :D

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Datamax is a ''cheater''? Sorry I couldn't resist! :D

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

zak123 - I'm hunting naked this fall with a hand chipped flint spear head mounted on a hickory stick I chewed the bark off of

top that you ethics police !!

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

when I was much younger and not so visually unpleasant as I am now.

The more I read here,the madder I got . Till I came to Arthurs line above. I gotta go change underwear now!!!!