RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

There is a nation of people that I have been tempted to bring into debates like this that set as high a standard as the one you have described. They think anyone who doesn't hunt their way is a coward.

There's always someone bigger.:D

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Traits of Good Character

1. Trustworthiness
2. Respect
3. Responsibilty
4. Fairness
5. Caring
6. Citizenship

I know hunting has taught and reinforced all of these traits in my personal/sociallifeand when something in my personal hunting doesn't adhere to these traits that's when I feel I need to make a change. It's never my place to judge another even though I do at times. If this site has taught me one thing, its been that we get no where treating others poorly. We could all get a lot fruther in our discussions if we enter everything with an open mind, control or EMOTIONS (happiness, sadness, fear, anger, love, empathy, sympathy, anxiety, jealousy) and discuss, debate an be able toagree to disagree. We don't have to like what others do, yet putting others down will never be productive. It's a waste of time period.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Spend a day in the field with me and then judge my ethics and methods. Until that time comes JR your rant is just another opinion with no basis in fact where I am concerned.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Were those his last words. I would rather have my last words be meaningful or inspiring. But I guess you live a life of bullsh-t then you die in it.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Awwwwe , another one of those warm and fuzzy , hunters uniting , motivational threads.

How charming

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

You are missing the point.
It's not to define what is ethical or not or what is right or wrong.
My contention is any normal person already knows.
They want to do it any way and the know it's wrong already but they want the excuse to rationalize what they already know darn well is cheating.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Nope, I don't.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

What am I suppose to do? List every contivance from the time man picked up the first rock to nukes?

I'll spell it out for you. Those were examples. Chosen just because they are the most common discussed.

If those items YOU mentioned were considered to be cheating by nearly ANYONE they would not serve your purpose to exagerate and dilute the topic. Just the fact NOBODY HAS EVER come on here asking if ANY of YOUR mentioned items was ethical or not proves the point.

People know when they are cheating. They want to cheat any way. They come soliciting at the very least an "implied" permission from the hunting community and they get it with those BS comments like "If it's legal..." Well down in Texas....

Bull, if you feel the need to ask. You already know.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

No I don't define cheating by what is illegal.

I define it by what you know is right and wrong and I've not made any intentional attempt to define what those things are beyond stipulating that most sane people know what those are. They may be different from one specific situation to another.

What I believe is not different is people and the way they will address it.

Cheaters will cheat and they will look for ways to excuse it when caught or when their conciense bothers them.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Kiss my a$$!!!

There, someone needed to say it...

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Well Jack, I can see you feel storngly about this and have spoken your piece, I don't think it made too many friends but you spoke it and there it is. I don't believe you are an anti hunter even though, by your post here there is plenty of evidence that you could be. It is the same type of argument they would bring up. Just so you know, since were speaking our piece here, I'll hunt any way I want, legally and I don't need anyone's approval ("You hunt the way you want" responses) and for the record my conscience does not bother me. I can kill it, butcher it and eat it with people who have no idea about the process and be just like them.

People are different, except it or it will eat you up and could led to trouble.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Rip all you want.
My conciense doesn't bother me so I don't need to ask permission from you or anybody else. I don't feel the need to search the interent looking for people I can point at and say, "Well, look what he does?"

About all I have time to hunt in any significant number is deer, turkey, squirrels and beavers and I know with out a doubt when what I'm doing is so easy it feels like cheating.

When all I want to do is get rid of them, like keeping squirrels out of the fruit trees or off the house and beavers from flooding the land, then that's exactly the way I go about killing them. As quick and easy as I can.

I sure don't pretend I'm "hunting" them though or try to pretend it's anything other than eradiction.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Sounds a lot like a guilty conciense looking to tear down someone else to their level to me.

Funny thing is nothing screams cheater more than some one screaming "I'm not a cheater" unless it's some one screaming "Everyone else cheats TOO!"

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

I think it's back across the net.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

I don't think so.
Feel free to keep showing it though. I'm sure you'll find someone.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Here's a pretty handy dandy little function everyone should know about.......


Jack Ryan


This user is on your "block" list and the message has been blocked.
Click here to unblock this user and view this post.


Kinda neat huh?:)

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

I like it.
Now if you only had one for your conciense, you'd be all set.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Jack Ryan

Change every "they" in your original post to "we" and you'll make a lot more sense. Right now ? You just sound like a rambling old fool drunk on Vodka.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Show me a post where I've EVER ask if anything I do or want to do is considered ethical or wrong by anybody any where on any forum and I'll change it to anything you want.

Otherwise it sounds to me you are just making guesses or smear attempts on me based on your own life expiriences.

Let's discuss the topic as it is relevant to hunting rather than your personal expirience with the bottle. I'll take your word you are an expert in that area, it's just not relevant in a hunting forum.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

A little late but.....

Damn self rightous bastard. If its legal and its how they wanna hunt, just let em be. Im sure peta.com has some forum that would be just perfect for you.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

The chant of the doomed, once again.

You guilt riddencheaters are as predictable as Jesse Jackson screaming "racist".

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

A conscience is like an opinion; it's yours and only you can deal with it. A thread like this serves no purpose whatsoever, except to vent and feel better. If we got this kind of feedback on equipment questions we would all be using the best out there. Have you ever noticed that almost all of us will jump on a controversial statement. We are human, it is natural to defend. Do you ride a Harley or a Honda? Do you shoot a Mathews or a Bowtech? Who Cares? Oh, I left out one of the purposes of a thread like this. ENTERTAINMENT....

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Jack ? What hast thou wrought ? ;)

Having met Jack personally on more than one occasion allow me to pop a few bubbles . In person Jack is quite affable , erudite , and can be downright charming when he wants to be . He does have definite views on the universe as we all do , the difference being only that compromise is not in his vocabulary . I've debated or discussed various topics with him on several boards for awhile now , and while we don't always agree I'm always left enriched by it . Blunt honesty can be a difficult path for some to walk , Jack does it with self assurance and no apologies . Even if you don't agree with him you have to admire his resolve .

I'll hike with you again anytime Jack , next time I'll bring a nice brie to go with the wine .

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Wow , what a thread you started Jack. I read the entire thread because I found it to be very interesting. I haven't been back into the Bowhunting forum for awhile because it was the same old boring discussions over who's bows were the best and who's sucked. Yawn !!!
I have to give it to Jack that he added so much fire and life to this forum. I am in no way a "brown-noser". Never have been, never will be. But Ialways give credit where credit is due.
I find myself on the fence for the first time in a long time. I really believe that Paul L.Mohr most mirrors my thoughts on this topic. I do take exception with his and many others point "what givesJack or anyone the right to question anyones ethics?". What gives him that right is Freedom of Speech. You might not like what Jack has to say but he damn well has a right to say it. We question peoples ethics everyday in our lives. From politiciansto the friends we may play golf or hunt with. Their actions help form our opinion of them even if we don't verbalize those opions.

I don't hunt over bait or shoot fenced animals. I personally think that isn't hunting but is fishing and farming. However, I don't have any intention to stop them either and I don't call that cheating.

Why?

I will openly admit that I run a private pheasant game farm. There are those that think game farm bird hunting isn't really hunting and borderline unethical. I hunt SD pheasant every year and the wild onesdefinetly act differently. However, the game farm birds are raised to be harvested. I use a compound bow w/realease, carbon arrows, scent-lok clothes, a treestand, a range finder and an ATV for bowhunting. This may be unethical to some, but to me reperesents the best chance for a clean and ethical kill.

Also,

I know of a lot of guys who were avid hunters but now work 80 hours a week in a stressful career and only get a short amount of time to hunt. If they shoot an elk behind a fence or game farm pheasants on a rare day off from work or family then so be it. I don't think thay any of these people consider themsleves the equal of a hunter back packing 10,000 ft up to harvest a Rocky Mountain elk or a plains upland hunter. But they are spending a lot of money on these activities and often
donate large amounts of money to the NRA, DU andPF that benefit all of us.

I guess my point is simply that we all have the right to question ethics but we also have the right to determine what is ethical in our own minds. Remember the anti-hunters not only question all of our hunting practices but are trying to divide and conquer us hunters in order to eliminate hunting completely.

-Mathewsconquest2

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

well i have ready this wwhhoolleee post. and so far Matchewsconquest has made the most sense and i completely agree with him. we do have the right to our own opinions but when did we get the right to cut down other people because they voiced their opinions? the fact is, it's that person's choice to hunt how they do and you may not agree with how they hunt but then again they might not agree with how you do it. so the sooner we all realize this the sooner this post can be resolved.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Thanks Kevin and the same goes for me as well.

I've enjoyed your company as well.

This thread is getting so long and, as most of them do, wandering beyond the original point I was aiming for so I'll just make the point I was aiming for at the very beginning.

I believe at this point the thread it's self proves my point.

I believe, ethics, the law, TV and videos, magazines and know it all experts all aside, every hunter knows what is fair and what is not.

In the end, it is what I like best about hunting. IT IS NOT A FRIGG'N TEAM SPORT like some stupid ball game to bedetermined and influence by peripheral nonparticipants like fans and referrees.

It's one person on the trigger. One person responsible for that decision. And that one person knows if they are a hunter, a shooter, a customer or a cheater.

They know and they know if what they are is the same as what they want to be.

Everybody knows it and so does everybody's concience.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

I just read this entire thread and I am amazed at the way JR was slammed for voicing his opinion. Some of you are down right pathetic. Frankly, anybody that hunts over bait, high fences and heated tree stands ain't hunting anything, they are just shooting deer. This silly argument about equipment etc is a joke too. We all know that animals shot over bait isn't real hunting, whether it's legal or not. There ia an ethical line and you can try to pervert it all you want but we all know when it's been crossed. I can't imagine ever shooting an animal over bait or behind fences, and even more unimaginable is why anyone would mount such a pathetic trophy. Thank god I live in Montana where such practices are illegal, even the use of trail-cams is illegal here, as it should be.n Go ahead and rip away, I could careless.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

I don't want to get another slam started and I don't agree or disagree with Jack, but everyone has talked about drawing the line when I wonder if anyone knows where the line is. Even you talk about heated tree stands and trail cams and Montana, but you could go on to say that hiring an outfitter such as are here AND especially in Montana and other western states, that you pay big bucks for someone else to scout for you and tell you which one you should shoot. To me personally it is hunting, but it is like work, hard but doing what you are told to do and when to do it. So to me, like hiring an outfitter or using a trail cam and some other slight edges cause you have a job and family that doesn't let you scout or hunt anytime you want is not over the line. Some things mentioned are but such as a heated tree stand is certainly not going to bring any deer in no more that using the heater in your truck as you are driving to your unheated stand. This thing started out mostly about "canned hunts" and has escalated into "if you're not a caveman, you are cheating"

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

Well, the first time I read JR's original post, I didn't think too highly of it and blocked him. After seeing all the hoopla surrounding things I needed to come and read everything. He brashly opened a can of worms and should expect the flack he's taken for it. I do not entirely agree with his way of thinking, I'll leave it at that.

RE: A Hunter's Conscience
 

This post has turned from debate to slamming and therefore I am locking it.