RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

Well the speed will be nice for 3D, but everything else it is completely unnecessary. If you look at setups used by people for field archery events where they shoot to 80 yards, there setups are generally VERY slow and VERY forgiving similar to a spots bow. Speed is actually your worst enemy when shooting at known distances that are a long ways out there.

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

This seems rather counterintuitive, please elaborate. It seems to me that if you have two equally accurate bows, and the distances were precisely known, then speed becomes irrelevant. If, however, the distance is not exact, the faster bow, with its flatter trajectory, would result in a smaller vertical deviation from the intended point of impact. I guess I can't see why speed would be ones "worst enemy."

Mike

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

No it is not my first bow. I have been bow hunting since I was 12, I am now 24.

I am currently shooting a Browning Ambush 28.5" DL and 70% LO. I bought this bow because it was cheap when I first started college in 2000. It replaced the Darton Excel I was shooting, and had been shooting since I was 12. It was big and heavy and really loud. Now I have graduated college and i would like a nice bow. As I said earlier, I just want a fast bow. It may not make a difference when hunting or target shooting or anything else, I just want a fast bow. It is a personal preference.

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

I believe he means that faster bows tend to be a bit trickier to shoot and tune. In order to get the speed out of them they become less forgiving. Everything is a give and take situation. I am sure if they could get a bow that would shoot fast but not use too light of an arrow and be easier to shoot they would go for it. The faster you can get the arrow out of the bow and to the target the better. As long as you don't sacrifice anything to do it. A fast bow means nothing if you can't shoot it well or tune it.

I would think you would want a combination of decent speed and arrow weight to counter act the wind. You would not want a real fast but light arrow, or a real slow but heavy arrow. Both would be a dissadvantage with cross wind at longer ranges. I also believe FITA is limited to 60 lbs of draw weight as well. That is why you don't see the same speeds you would see with 3-D. And Olympic recurve archery I'm sure is even slower yet.

It sort of the same way with firearms. I have a .17HMR that is VERY accurate out to beyond 100 yards. However with the tiny 17 grn bullet if the wind is blowing slightly it really messes up the shot at longer distances. That is why most long range marksmen prefere a heavier .308 bullet. It bucks the wind better and has a better BLC because of the length. They just have to compensate for the trajectory is all. ( I am talking 1000 meters and beyond type of stuff)

I have a paper written Matt Cleland about FITA archery if anyone is interested in reading. It was on the internet, but the link is down. I have it saved in Word though. It is very interesting and he makes some good points. He is a local archer that holds several state and national titles and records. He was also on the United States archery team for several years.

Paul

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

Bowtech Black Knight would be my suggestion then. I agree, I don't know that you will get over 300 fps with a hunting set up with most bows. You might get close though. And you would probably have to shoot light arrows.

What is your draw length and how much weight do you want to pull? That will be huge factor. Some of these guys on here have pretty amazing speeds, but some of them have 30 to 31 inch draw lengths.

Paul

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

I would say check out the Bowtech Allegiance. I absolutely love mine. It's plenty fast, has a smooth draw cycle, and is a sweet shooter. I'd suggest you go down to your local Bowtech dealer and try it out.

Bowtech Allegiance VFT
BH: 7"
DL: 24"-30"
ATA: 33 5/8"
IBO: 322-328fps

Mike

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

My draw length is 28.5 inches, and I will plan to pull around 70#.

If I can't get up to 300 fps with out having to use a super light arrow, that is fine. As close to 300 fps as possible while not haveing a "too light" arrow(i.e. one that is effected by a large amount by wind a mentioned earlier, or one that is so light it sacrifices penetration) if perfectly fine.

I had no idea the speed preference was going to cause such a fuss.

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

It's just that a lot of people get too hung up on speed and sacrifice things they shouldn't for it. Or they want everything for nothing. They want a super fast bow that is easy to shoot and has no handshock and is dead silent. Not too mention draws like butter. That is a hard trick to pull off, although the newer bows are amazing compared to a decade ago in that department.

Like I said, everything is a trade off and you have to take that into consideration. Especially if you are looking for a multi purpose bow. You also have to take into consideration your personal limitations. If you draw a fair amount of weight and have a long draw you can get pretty decent speeds with most bows. However if you are little like me, forget about. Even at your draw length of 28.5 inches I think 300 fps is a bit optimistic. I mean it can be done I'm sure, especially depending on what bow you get. However you would have to make sacrifices like having very little weight on your string and giving up some arrow weight.

Say you get a bow with an advertised speed of 305 or even 315. Chances are it is a bit inflated any way, and was tested with a set up hardly anyone would use to actually shoot a bow. And it was done at 70 lbs with a 350 grn arrow and 30 inches of draw. And most likely not really 30 inches of draw. They use a cam or module that says 30 inches, but the bow might actually draw close to an inch longer sometimes. When you actually set it up the way you would shoot it you will lose several FPS from what it was rated at. You could make up for it with a lighter arrow, but that is not always what people want. And if you are going to compete you might be limited to 5 grns per lb regardless of draw length. I don't know what the rules are to be honest.

Lets say you get a bow that is rated for 315 fps. You set the bow up and it ends up being 28 to 28.5 inches of draw length. Then you put a nock set, peep and silncers in the string. You just lost 30 or so fps right there. Now what if the company fudged there specs a little and the bow is actually capable of 310 fps not 315 (being generous on that one). And then what if the bow they tested actually drew 30 and 3/4 inches instead 30. Now you just lost another 10 to 15 fps. And this does not take into acount Chronograph errors and tuning. And that is providing you are still shooting 70 lbs and a 350 grn arrow.

Imagine what it is like with my set up of 50-60 lbs and 26 inches of draw![&o]

Our biggest concern and issue is that too often you see someone so obsessed with speed that they change things that actually hurt the way they shoot. Like making thier draw length longer than it should be, or drawing way more weight then they should. Or picking a bow that is very difficult to shoot. I have seen people go to some pretty extreme measures to gain 15 fps. When in truth they probably wouldn't even be able to tell if it were not for the chrono telling them so.

The best thing to do would be to shoot some bows and find the ones you like. The ones that feel good and fit you. Then take those bows and see how fast they are with a simular set up to what you would like to shoot. Then pick the one that gives you the best speed with your set up and still feels good to you and don't look back. Don't pick one bow over another simply because it is faster. If you didn't like the way it felt when you bought it you will regret it later even if it was faster. Don't rule the speed bows out though, some of them shoot pretty well. And if one has more vibration and hand shock then another remember a lot of that can be taken care of with after market products.

Don't over anylize things. Being an aware shopper is a good thing, but don't "think" yourself into something you don't really want. If you shoot a parcitcular bow that has a really good feel, draw and shot that makes you say "Crap, I like that bow!" don't pick a different one just because it has 10 or 15 more FPS for the IBO speed.

Does that help any?

Paul

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

Paul, all you said makes perfect sense. I think I may have come across like I am more concerned with speed than I actually am. I Do want a fast bow, but not at the exspense of everything else, as I said in an earlier post. I will not under any circumstance buy a bow I am not comfortable with. I will gladly pick the 300fps ViperTec over the 330fps TurboTec if I like the vipertec better. I have been shooting archery for a while, and I know and understand the importance of being comfortable with the bow I am shooting. This is the predicament I am in now. I am not crazy about the Browing I am shooting now, but I bought it just because it was cheap. I bought it without doing a lot of shopping around, and I have had to deal with it for 6 years now. I will not do that again. And by the way, I am only getting about 235fps out of the browning.

And by the way, I think I am leaning towards the Hoyt Line. I went to a couple of shops to day to look. I held several Parkers, Hoyts and Mathews bows, and I really like the way the Hoyts felt in my hand. I did not have time to shoot any of them. I will do that this weekend.
Just out of curiosity, what does everyone think would be a good price for the 2005 Hoyt ViperTec (I really liked the way that one felt in my hand)? The shop I went to had one for $605. Is that a good price?

Thanks

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

Out of the three you listed I have always favored Hoyt's designs. They are always on the cutting edge of design and performance. You can see where your money is going just by picking up any of their bows and giving them the once over.

Though it wasn't listed Bowtech would be my first choice. Their customer service, excellent designs and attention to detail are excellent.