conviece me which brand to buy
 

I am considering buying a new bow before this season. I cant decide which brand to get before I even consider a particular model. I know everyone here has a favorte brand and will staunchly defend it. I have 3 particular brands in mind. Hoyt, Parker, and Mathews. There are two dealerships within 10 minutes of my house. One deals exclusively in Mathews and the other in only Hoyt and Parker. I want a bow that is fast and quiet. I would like it to be capable of, when setup for hunting, shooting over 300fps. Money is not a big concern but I would like to keept the price under $700 if I can. I will be using the arrows, rest, and site from my current bow so all I will have to buy is the bow itself. All opinions are welcome.

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

id say a hoyt vtec or xtec for the longer limbed and the shorter shorter ata a razortec i thinkits called god luck choosing i own a xtec and no problems except i cut my bow string..my fault

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

dont go on brand go on feel and pesonal preferences

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

Very wise advice!!!


Try out other brands also, PSE has come out with the new Vengence and Venom bows, My wife bought the Venom and its Identacle to my Mathews outback.... and shoots just as good..

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

as mentioned don't buy on brand name all the names you mentioned are good bows you will here good and bad from them all. IMO the only way to buy a bow is to shoot them and pick the one that feels best in your hands not someone elses.

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

I'd recommend that you go to one or more dealers and shoot every bow that you're interested in from a variety of manufacturers before you decide. I prefer Bowtech over the others, and bought the Allegiance because it was the bow that I felt the most comfortable shooting.A bow is a very personal choice, and no one can tell youwhatbow is the best for you.One word of advice before you go test firing bows.Make sure that the bows you test are properly set up for your draw length.Ifound that as littleas 1/2" off was enough to dramatically change the'feel' of the bow.If the shopis worth its salt they will make adjustments for you so you can make a fair assessment ofeach bow you shoot.

Have fun and good luck,

Mike

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

How many of you are getting 300 fps in hunting trim?

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

I'm not very brand loyal either. There several bows I would not mind owning. They all have a bow I like. Just shoot a bunch and pick the one that feels the best in your hand and meets your budget. I have looked at Martin, Jennings, buckmaster, PSE, AR, Parker, Darton, Hoyt, Mathews, Alpine, Proline and I'm sure a few others I am forgetting. I own a darton, a bowtech, a Martin and my girlfriend has an Alpine. I wouldn't hesitate to own a Mathews, Hoyt, Parker or AR. I personally love the grips on the hoyts and bowtechs, however I have small hands.

I wouldn't mind owning a merlin either, I have seen one up close and looked at them on the net a lot. To me they are more like works of art then archery gear. A quality product without a doubt.

You really need to shoot them and see what you think for yourself. Honestly you could walk in spin around with your eyes closed and just grab one and do well for yourself though. As long is it fit you.

Paul

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

as previously said, go buy the best feeling bow. if possible, get 3' or so from the target (extend your bow arm and take 3 steps back from the target) keep your eyes closed, and let the dealer hand you bows and not tell you which is which.

That being said, I shoot a Hoyt Protec with Spiral cams.

71 lbs, 30" draw, 362 grain arrow at 303 fps.

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

I would not even consider purchasing a bow without shooting several first. As I said above the reason I narrowed it to the three mentioned is because these are the brands the dealers near me deal in. If I don't like anything I find there I will look else where. I am just curiouse as to what y'all would look at if you were seriously in the market for a new bow. I did not mean to come across like I would go buy a bow based solely on word of mouth, or brand reputation.

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

Your just going to have to try them all on for your personal best fit, or else you are buying someone elses "Fit" and opinion. Of the choices you mentioned I think I would pick a Hoyt Vtec. More DL adjustability without having to buy cams so It would likely be easier to deal the next time you get the itch to try something new.

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

I have found that one bow can be different from another even though they are the same because of the way they are set up. Go in with knowing what you want and let them give you bows that are set the way you want. Then see how each "feels'.

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

Out of the three that you mentioned, I'd say Hoyt. I had bad luck with Parker, and am not much into single cams. I have a cam and a half Darton and like it a lot. Hoyt is using something very similar and I believe is the only bow that you mentioned which is available in Deflex model. I'm not sure if you will be shooting over 300 FPS with it though, not sure why you'd make that a factor either.

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

With Me when I started out i wanted a fast and quiet bow i could have bought a 305fps bow but i liked a 292fps bow better

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

Try a few out, what works for me might not work for you.

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

I don't think a lot of people realize how difficult it is to break the 300fps mark with a bow and how unnecessary it is for anything except for 3D. I am shooting a Patriot at 72 lbs and a 358 grain arrow (8 grains over ibo and warranty minimums) and a 29" draw and I am only shooting at 304fps. This is a bow that is rated at well over 315 IBO, and I only have a peep (no tube), loop, and tied in nock point on the string. The only reason I chose this bow is because I only had money for one bow that would be used for both 3D and hunting, and this was the best combination of the features I needed for both. If I wasn't attempting to be highly competitive at 3D, and was hunting only I probably would be shooting a bow that was around 280fps or less. That is plenty in the woods and would be much more forgiving.

With that said, I will be shooting GT 75/95 XT's that weigh in at around 430 grains with a 125 grain slick trick on them for hunting. They will probably only be going around 280fps.

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

I am not that concerned about shooting over 300 fps for hunting. I put that qualification on it because I am interested in shooting 3d competively, and I also have a small range setup behind my house, and I want to be able to make long shot (60+ yds) with some accuracy. In short, I just want a fast bow. Is that so wrong????:D

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

I know alot of people are into speed and I personally think it may help a little in determining the amount of pins you use. However, if the sole reason for speed is to be accurate at 60+ yards then you're looking at it all wrong. I have seen bows shooting very low speeds still shooting accurately out to 80 yards. As far as wanting a bow for both hunting and 3D I have to say I love my bowtech. It's quiet, fast and accurate. I hunt with it every year and shoot indoor and outdoor leagues with it in the off season. When I feel like having fun I'll shoot at one of my McKenzie targets at 100 yards and never hit outside the 8 ring. As Rick James said (LOL...those last four words just don't sound right:D) I get around 287 fps in my hunting setup but I shoot a pro 38 dually. I agree with everyone else. Shoot a bunch of different bows to see what feels best but I would take a real close look at the bowtechs (sorry...I just think they're one awesome bow;))

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

I will agree with the above statement. Speed does not always equal accuracy. Now if you are trying to shoot out to 60 yards but estimating the range, then speed will help with judgement errors. Although I don't know how much at that range. As far as accuracy though, I have shot bows closer to 200 fps with heavier arrows pretty accurately at 70 yards and beyond. As long as you know the range and have sight settings for it speed does not matter.

I personally am very happy with around 230-245 FPS. If I could get a bow that shot faster I would most likely up my arrow weight until I fell back in that range. I'm not concerned with 3-D though and I don't stalk hunt. And as far as target shooting goes, I don't even concern myself with speed. I bet I was close to 200 fps shooting spots. However from what I understand with long distance shooting speed and weight are a consideration because of the wind.

Paul

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

Is this your first bow?

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

Well the speed will be nice for 3D, but everything else it is completely unnecessary. If you look at setups used by people for field archery events where they shoot to 80 yards, there setups are generally VERY slow and VERY forgiving similar to a spots bow. Speed is actually your worst enemy when shooting at known distances that are a long ways out there.

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

This seems rather counterintuitive, please elaborate. It seems to me that if you have two equally accurate bows, and the distances were precisely known, then speed becomes irrelevant. If, however, the distance is not exact, the faster bow, with its flatter trajectory, would result in a smaller vertical deviation from the intended point of impact. I guess I can't see why speed would be ones "worst enemy."

Mike

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

No it is not my first bow. I have been bow hunting since I was 12, I am now 24.

I am currently shooting a Browning Ambush 28.5" DL and 70% LO. I bought this bow because it was cheap when I first started college in 2000. It replaced the Darton Excel I was shooting, and had been shooting since I was 12. It was big and heavy and really loud. Now I have graduated college and i would like a nice bow. As I said earlier, I just want a fast bow. It may not make a difference when hunting or target shooting or anything else, I just want a fast bow. It is a personal preference.

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

I believe he means that faster bows tend to be a bit trickier to shoot and tune. In order to get the speed out of them they become less forgiving. Everything is a give and take situation. I am sure if they could get a bow that would shoot fast but not use too light of an arrow and be easier to shoot they would go for it. The faster you can get the arrow out of the bow and to the target the better. As long as you don't sacrifice anything to do it. A fast bow means nothing if you can't shoot it well or tune it.

I would think you would want a combination of decent speed and arrow weight to counter act the wind. You would not want a real fast but light arrow, or a real slow but heavy arrow. Both would be a dissadvantage with cross wind at longer ranges. I also believe FITA is limited to 60 lbs of draw weight as well. That is why you don't see the same speeds you would see with 3-D. And Olympic recurve archery I'm sure is even slower yet.

It sort of the same way with firearms. I have a .17HMR that is VERY accurate out to beyond 100 yards. However with the tiny 17 grn bullet if the wind is blowing slightly it really messes up the shot at longer distances. That is why most long range marksmen prefere a heavier .308 bullet. It bucks the wind better and has a better BLC because of the length. They just have to compensate for the trajectory is all. ( I am talking 1000 meters and beyond type of stuff)

I have a paper written Matt Cleland about FITA archery if anyone is interested in reading. It was on the internet, but the link is down. I have it saved in Word though. It is very interesting and he makes some good points. He is a local archer that holds several state and national titles and records. He was also on the United States archery team for several years.

Paul

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

Bowtech Black Knight would be my suggestion then. I agree, I don't know that you will get over 300 fps with a hunting set up with most bows. You might get close though. And you would probably have to shoot light arrows.

What is your draw length and how much weight do you want to pull? That will be huge factor. Some of these guys on here have pretty amazing speeds, but some of them have 30 to 31 inch draw lengths.

Paul

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

I would say check out the Bowtech Allegiance. I absolutely love mine. It's plenty fast, has a smooth draw cycle, and is a sweet shooter. I'd suggest you go down to your local Bowtech dealer and try it out.

Bowtech Allegiance VFT
BH: 7"
DL: 24"-30"
ATA: 33 5/8"
IBO: 322-328fps

Mike

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

My draw length is 28.5 inches, and I will plan to pull around 70#.

If I can't get up to 300 fps with out having to use a super light arrow, that is fine. As close to 300 fps as possible while not haveing a "too light" arrow(i.e. one that is effected by a large amount by wind a mentioned earlier, or one that is so light it sacrifices penetration) if perfectly fine.

I had no idea the speed preference was going to cause such a fuss.

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

It's just that a lot of people get too hung up on speed and sacrifice things they shouldn't for it. Or they want everything for nothing. They want a super fast bow that is easy to shoot and has no handshock and is dead silent. Not too mention draws like butter. That is a hard trick to pull off, although the newer bows are amazing compared to a decade ago in that department.

Like I said, everything is a trade off and you have to take that into consideration. Especially if you are looking for a multi purpose bow. You also have to take into consideration your personal limitations. If you draw a fair amount of weight and have a long draw you can get pretty decent speeds with most bows. However if you are little like me, forget about. Even at your draw length of 28.5 inches I think 300 fps is a bit optimistic. I mean it can be done I'm sure, especially depending on what bow you get. However you would have to make sacrifices like having very little weight on your string and giving up some arrow weight.

Say you get a bow with an advertised speed of 305 or even 315. Chances are it is a bit inflated any way, and was tested with a set up hardly anyone would use to actually shoot a bow. And it was done at 70 lbs with a 350 grn arrow and 30 inches of draw. And most likely not really 30 inches of draw. They use a cam or module that says 30 inches, but the bow might actually draw close to an inch longer sometimes. When you actually set it up the way you would shoot it you will lose several FPS from what it was rated at. You could make up for it with a lighter arrow, but that is not always what people want. And if you are going to compete you might be limited to 5 grns per lb regardless of draw length. I don't know what the rules are to be honest.

Lets say you get a bow that is rated for 315 fps. You set the bow up and it ends up being 28 to 28.5 inches of draw length. Then you put a nock set, peep and silncers in the string. You just lost 30 or so fps right there. Now what if the company fudged there specs a little and the bow is actually capable of 310 fps not 315 (being generous on that one). And then what if the bow they tested actually drew 30 and 3/4 inches instead 30. Now you just lost another 10 to 15 fps. And this does not take into acount Chronograph errors and tuning. And that is providing you are still shooting 70 lbs and a 350 grn arrow.

Imagine what it is like with my set up of 50-60 lbs and 26 inches of draw![&o]

Our biggest concern and issue is that too often you see someone so obsessed with speed that they change things that actually hurt the way they shoot. Like making thier draw length longer than it should be, or drawing way more weight then they should. Or picking a bow that is very difficult to shoot. I have seen people go to some pretty extreme measures to gain 15 fps. When in truth they probably wouldn't even be able to tell if it were not for the chrono telling them so.

The best thing to do would be to shoot some bows and find the ones you like. The ones that feel good and fit you. Then take those bows and see how fast they are with a simular set up to what you would like to shoot. Then pick the one that gives you the best speed with your set up and still feels good to you and don't look back. Don't pick one bow over another simply because it is faster. If you didn't like the way it felt when you bought it you will regret it later even if it was faster. Don't rule the speed bows out though, some of them shoot pretty well. And if one has more vibration and hand shock then another remember a lot of that can be taken care of with after market products.

Don't over anylize things. Being an aware shopper is a good thing, but don't "think" yourself into something you don't really want. If you shoot a parcitcular bow that has a really good feel, draw and shot that makes you say "Crap, I like that bow!" don't pick a different one just because it has 10 or 15 more FPS for the IBO speed.

Does that help any?

Paul

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

Paul, all you said makes perfect sense. I think I may have come across like I am more concerned with speed than I actually am. I Do want a fast bow, but not at the exspense of everything else, as I said in an earlier post. I will not under any circumstance buy a bow I am not comfortable with. I will gladly pick the 300fps ViperTec over the 330fps TurboTec if I like the vipertec better. I have been shooting archery for a while, and I know and understand the importance of being comfortable with the bow I am shooting. This is the predicament I am in now. I am not crazy about the Browing I am shooting now, but I bought it just because it was cheap. I bought it without doing a lot of shopping around, and I have had to deal with it for 6 years now. I will not do that again. And by the way, I am only getting about 235fps out of the browning.

And by the way, I think I am leaning towards the Hoyt Line. I went to a couple of shops to day to look. I held several Parkers, Hoyts and Mathews bows, and I really like the way the Hoyts felt in my hand. I did not have time to shoot any of them. I will do that this weekend.
Just out of curiosity, what does everyone think would be a good price for the 2005 Hoyt ViperTec (I really liked the way that one felt in my hand)? The shop I went to had one for $605. Is that a good price?

Thanks

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

Out of the three you listed I have always favored Hoyt's designs. They are always on the cutting edge of design and performance. You can see where your money is going just by picking up any of their bows and giving them the once over.

Though it wasn't listed Bowtech would be my first choice. Their customer service, excellent designs and attention to detail are excellent.

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

300 fps with an Allegance is a cake walk at 28.5".

Many here will fight the light fast arrow user..........But if YOU want speed the allegance is a super accurate bow that does NOT handle or feel like a speed monster.

In all honesty - I do not see that you are giving up anything to achieve these speeds with the Allegance.

good luck

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

Like I said, I'm not saying it can't be done it is just a bit optimistic and I think I detailed my reasoning pretty well. It would all depend on the set up you wanted to use.

With a 322 IBO speed it would be pretty doable if you didn't load your string down with stuff.

Paul

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

100% in agreement with driftrider ,great advice on a bow being a personal opinion ,because one particular bow feel's good to me or the next guy doesn't necassarilly mean it will suit you that way.

nubo

RE: conviece me which brand to buy
 

If you decide to go with hoyt, check out some bows with the Spiral cams. They are draw specific, but they do indeed shoot faster, as long as you can handle the stiffer draw cycle.

my protec with spirals is 38" ata, .5" deflex, shooting 303 fps at 70/30"

The ultratec is even faster, with a half inch less ata, and no deflex.