Opinions or fact: Carbon scent suits
09-03-2003, 01:23 PM
#1
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Havre de Grace MD USA
Posts: 703
Opinions or fact: Carbon scent suits
http://www.fastestbows.com/articles/...cent_suits.htm
I read this article the other day and got to thinking about it.
Has anyone else read this article? Is this erroneous information to dissuade people from buying the stuff or is this in fact the Truth?
At what point is the carbon suit " full" ? Do you need to regenerate it as soon as you buy it? After all it has been adsorbing scent the whole time it has been hanging in the store!
Can this all be true? I would be pissed if I had spent a lot of money on this stuff and it turns out to be a freakin' hoax!
I read this article the other day and got to thinking about it.
Has anyone else read this article? Is this erroneous information to dissuade people from buying the stuff or is this in fact the Truth?
At what point is the carbon suit " full" ? Do you need to regenerate it as soon as you buy it? After all it has been adsorbing scent the whole time it has been hanging in the store!
To fully re-activate saturated activated-carbon, you must heat it to approximately 800 °C or 1,472 °F, in a controlled atmosphere of low oxygen concentration to reduce the possibility of combustion. This is scientific fact and is even stated in the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers – Engineering and Design, Adsorption Design Guide, Design Guide No. DG1110-1-2, if you’d like to check it out for yourself. This fact is not however mentioned on any of the popular scent elimination clothing manufacturers’ websites.
....Here is something else you should consider before purchasing one of these products: activated-carbon’s adsorption effectiveness when used in an air filter application becomes greatly reduced when it is wet. So what happens when you sweat during those humid early season bow hunts? That’s right, your clothing gets wet and becomes even less effective.
A leading manufacturer of activated-carbon garments admits that no laboratory testing has been conducted to determine the effectiveness of the clothing when it is wet from hunter’s perspiration.
....Here is something else you should consider before purchasing one of these products: activated-carbon’s adsorption effectiveness when used in an air filter application becomes greatly reduced when it is wet. So what happens when you sweat during those humid early season bow hunts? That’s right, your clothing gets wet and becomes even less effective.
A leading manufacturer of activated-carbon garments admits that no laboratory testing has been conducted to determine the effectiveness of the clothing when it is wet from hunter’s perspiration.
09-03-2003, 06:52 PM
#2
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Sweet Valley Pa. USA
Posts: 532
RE: Opinions or fact: Carbon scent suits
I totally believe that the scent suits do not work as advertised. This is just my opinion and I have no proof of this. I believe that they probably work a little when new but I do believe that after awhile they no longer work any better then regular camo clothes. If you were to believe the ads they say forget the wind and just hunt. I really dont think thats a good idea!! I guess its what gives you confidence and what each person believes that makes the difference. Since you already bought yours try it out for yourself. I personally do not even wear mine anymore. It was a costly lesson.. But I hope you have better results..
09-03-2003, 11:54 PM
#3
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 174
RE: Opinions or fact: Carbon scent suits
I' m kinda 1/2 and 1/2 on this.
While it is true that to re-activate carbon fully...you need to get it stupid hot, this is as much for chemical adsorption as it is for anything else (were talking molecules smaller that human scent).
You' ll notice that while he says that carbon suits are already " full" before they get to the store. the only tests that " a leading manucaturer" admits to NOT doing is lab tests on wet carbon.
That is to say (when reading between the lines) that the manufacturers DO lab testing to determine the effectivness on carbon suits...just not when they are wet.
How wet is too wet??? Do they NOT work when wet (has anyone tested this and found they do NOT work???)
The way I look at it is simple.
It MIGHT help....but it most likely will NOT hurt.
I do feel they probably DO stop much human scent...but nothing short of an air tight suit will stop it all. Keep clean, keep your camo clean, and keep the wind to your face.
While it is true that to re-activate carbon fully...you need to get it stupid hot, this is as much for chemical adsorption as it is for anything else (were talking molecules smaller that human scent).
You' ll notice that while he says that carbon suits are already " full" before they get to the store. the only tests that " a leading manucaturer" admits to NOT doing is lab tests on wet carbon.
That is to say (when reading between the lines) that the manufacturers DO lab testing to determine the effectivness on carbon suits...just not when they are wet.
How wet is too wet??? Do they NOT work when wet (has anyone tested this and found they do NOT work???)
The way I look at it is simple.
It MIGHT help....but it most likely will NOT hurt.
I do feel they probably DO stop much human scent...but nothing short of an air tight suit will stop it all. Keep clean, keep your camo clean, and keep the wind to your face.
09-04-2003, 11:29 AM
#4
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 174
RE: Opinions or fact: Carbon scent suits
Here' s some more information I got from Robinson Labs (Scent Blocker).
I think they do a good job of explaining the workings of carbon suits.
The reactivation temperatures you are reading about refer to complete (totally purged/desorbed)regeneration of carbon filter media that are used for adsorbing industrial/hazardous waste. The temperatures found in most residential dryers (100 - 150degree F)are sufficient for carbon to desorb most of the human odor(which are low-complex, organic-acid based compounds)we might put into it over a given period of time hunting. Which is exactly why both Scentblocker and Scentlok recommend keeping your activated carbon suit stored properly to prevent as much adsorption of all manner of other odorous compounds as possible. Doing this and keeping your body clean to begin with allows this reactivation process to work to a very high degree.
and this...
The high reactivation temperatures people are reading about refer to complete (totally purged/desorbed) reactivation of carbon filter media that are used for adsorbing industrial/hazardous waste. In some cases with these types of material, chemisorption occurs, which creates a chemical bond between the materials being adsorbed and the substrate. To desorb these types of materials does require very high temperatures, equivalent to those initially required to activate the carbon (in the range of 800 - 1000 degrees C.
However, human odor consists of a mixture of volatile and high boiling point components - amines, aldehydes, and sulphur compounds. The high boiling point compounds come from bacterial action on fats and are typified by Butyric Acid. They tend to come mainly from the armpits and upper torso, while the volatiles come mostly from the groin area. These materials are physically adsorbed by carbon, not chemically adsorbed. In physical adsorption there is a van der Waals interaction, which have a long range, but are very weak. Physical adsorbtion is a relatively low energy process, easily reversible, rapid, and non-specific in the molecules it can capture. What this means in layman’s terms is that physically adsorbed molecules (e.g. human odor) can be readily desorbed (removed) with the modest heat levels found in residential tumble dryers.
Perhaps the biggest misconception is that we often refer to reactivation, when we should be calling it regeneration. Technically, reactivation is the act of restoring adsorptive power to a spent carbon by a process similar to the initial activation process, which does occur at high temperatures. Regeneration is any process which restores adsorptive activity by desorbing the adsorbed substances, which is exactly what we’re doing with our carbon suits in our dryers.
Keith Edberg
Robinson Outdoors
Now, do we still need to worry about it? Maybe, but they sure answered the questions that were being asked.
I think they do a good job of explaining the workings of carbon suits.
The reactivation temperatures you are reading about refer to complete (totally purged/desorbed)regeneration of carbon filter media that are used for adsorbing industrial/hazardous waste. The temperatures found in most residential dryers (100 - 150degree F)are sufficient for carbon to desorb most of the human odor(which are low-complex, organic-acid based compounds)we might put into it over a given period of time hunting. Which is exactly why both Scentblocker and Scentlok recommend keeping your activated carbon suit stored properly to prevent as much adsorption of all manner of other odorous compounds as possible. Doing this and keeping your body clean to begin with allows this reactivation process to work to a very high degree.
and this...
The high reactivation temperatures people are reading about refer to complete (totally purged/desorbed) reactivation of carbon filter media that are used for adsorbing industrial/hazardous waste. In some cases with these types of material, chemisorption occurs, which creates a chemical bond between the materials being adsorbed and the substrate. To desorb these types of materials does require very high temperatures, equivalent to those initially required to activate the carbon (in the range of 800 - 1000 degrees C.
However, human odor consists of a mixture of volatile and high boiling point components - amines, aldehydes, and sulphur compounds. The high boiling point compounds come from bacterial action on fats and are typified by Butyric Acid. They tend to come mainly from the armpits and upper torso, while the volatiles come mostly from the groin area. These materials are physically adsorbed by carbon, not chemically adsorbed. In physical adsorption there is a van der Waals interaction, which have a long range, but are very weak. Physical adsorbtion is a relatively low energy process, easily reversible, rapid, and non-specific in the molecules it can capture. What this means in layman’s terms is that physically adsorbed molecules (e.g. human odor) can be readily desorbed (removed) with the modest heat levels found in residential tumble dryers.
Perhaps the biggest misconception is that we often refer to reactivation, when we should be calling it regeneration. Technically, reactivation is the act of restoring adsorptive power to a spent carbon by a process similar to the initial activation process, which does occur at high temperatures. Regeneration is any process which restores adsorptive activity by desorbing the adsorbed substances, which is exactly what we’re doing with our carbon suits in our dryers.
Keith Edberg
Robinson Outdoors
Now, do we still need to worry about it? Maybe, but they sure answered the questions that were being asked.
09-04-2003, 11:30 AM
#5
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Havre de Grace MD USA
Posts: 703
RE: Opinions or fact: Carbon scent suits
I am totally on board with the " get as scent free as possible" school of thought.
But are these manufacturers playing on hunters fear and exploiting our insecurities against the nose of the wary whitetail? Espically if they knew in advance that the product had limitations like not being able to trulyregenerate
the products effectiveness.
Seems to me if it were truly effective to launder and " regenerate" the active carbon in theses suits the Federal Gov' t. would have been doing this for our militarty, but they do not. These are one time use suits only. Packed in vacuum sealed plastic bags. Of course even if you could " regenerate" the suits effectively the gov' t might still keep buying new ones.
I suppose it just irritates me that these companies prey on hunters. Kind of a weird role reversal. A classic case of " caveat emptor" .
But are these manufacturers playing on hunters fear and exploiting our insecurities against the nose of the wary whitetail? Espically if they knew in advance that the product had limitations like not being able to trulyregenerate
the products effectiveness.
Seems to me if it were truly effective to launder and " regenerate" the active carbon in theses suits the Federal Gov' t. would have been doing this for our militarty, but they do not. These are one time use suits only. Packed in vacuum sealed plastic bags. Of course even if you could " regenerate" the suits effectively the gov' t might still keep buying new ones.
I suppose it just irritates me that these companies prey on hunters. Kind of a weird role reversal. A classic case of " caveat emptor" .
09-04-2003, 12:17 PM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: crawfordville florida USA
Posts: 1,251
RE: Opinions or fact: Carbon scent suits
I know Michael Corrigan personally and he is an honest, well educated, intelligent person and a very good hunter. Its not that these suits dont work, its that their lifespan of effectiveness is short. If a person can get more than one or two seasons of effective use out of these I would be surprised. Mine lasted one season. Even with the dryer reactivations the lifecycle is short..Test this out for yourselves. After one season of use place a scent wafer or other odiferous object in the suit and try to smell it.
Betcha can. Use the search engine to get more info. There has been ALOT of threads about this article in the past few weeks.
Betcha can. Use the search engine to get more info. There has been ALOT of threads about this article in the past few weeks.
09-04-2003, 12:23 PM
#7
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: crawfordville florida USA
Posts: 1,251
RE: Opinions or fact: Carbon scent suits
dryers (100 - 150degree F)are sufficient for carbon to desorb most of the human odor(which are low-complex, organic-a
the effectiveness of the suit goes down. They didnt say how long the effectiveness of these suits should last.
09-27-2003, 04:32 AM
#9
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location:
Posts: 59
RE: Opinions or fact: Carbon scent suits
I was tempted to purchase a Scent-Lok suit last week because of all the hype created around them. It makes it look easy fool a whitetail' s nose with such a suit on. But after reading this thread, I' m gonna give it a second thought. After all, I' ve already gone into the woods after work, smelling like a machine shop, with old coveralls that were hanging in my attic the entire summer - so no descenting at all that morning - and shot a big fat doe within 30 minutes at 10 yds! The real key was the wind direction that day and any other day. I still try as hard to eliminate as much scent as possible on days that I can, but I always keep those coveralls handy for when I only have a couple of hours after night shift to hunt. BTW, that wasn' t the only day I had deer very close without any de-scenting at all.
09-28-2003, 08:27 PM
#10
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Altoona WI United States
Posts: 34
RE: Opinions or fact: Carbon scent suits
Interesting topic. Just last year I purchased a scent lock suit. I got the Northern Lites series of Scent Blocker. The suit is very comfortable and easy to manuver in and is as waterproof as advertised.
As for the effectivness I feel it is very good. Last year was the first ultra serious season of scent free hunting for me. Each time I went I was sure to shower using scent killer soaps. I also wore camo that was washed in scent killer soaps,and was very careful not to sweat while walking with my suit on. This year I plan to carry me carbon suit and put it on at my stand. Back to the story. On several occasions I had deer right under my stand,directly down wind from me. Having only two stands last year I hunted them daily for nine days. Top that off with unordinary wind direction. My stands were placed to take advantage of the most common wind direction,west northwest. The whole week I was hunting the wind was easterly. Not a single time did I have a deer (visably) bust me. I had one doe at 12 yards on it' s hind legs staring right at me while it licked the air trying to tasted the Ripe Apple scent waffer I had clipped to my bow limb. I was holding the bow at that time.
My opinion is the suit works. Maybe my rigid routine was the whole reason it worked. Either way I can' t wait to see how it is this year. I will follow the same routine and post any changes here. Good luck everyone!
As for the effectivness I feel it is very good. Last year was the first ultra serious season of scent free hunting for me. Each time I went I was sure to shower using scent killer soaps. I also wore camo that was washed in scent killer soaps,and was very careful not to sweat while walking with my suit on. This year I plan to carry me carbon suit and put it on at my stand. Back to the story. On several occasions I had deer right under my stand,directly down wind from me. Having only two stands last year I hunted them daily for nine days. Top that off with unordinary wind direction. My stands were placed to take advantage of the most common wind direction,west northwest. The whole week I was hunting the wind was easterly. Not a single time did I have a deer (visably) bust me. I had one doe at 12 yards on it' s hind legs staring right at me while it licked the air trying to tasted the Ripe Apple scent waffer I had clipped to my bow limb. I was holding the bow at that time.
My opinion is the suit works. Maybe my rigid routine was the whole reason it worked. Either way I can' t wait to see how it is this year. I will follow the same routine and post any changes here. Good luck everyone!