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All these short bows!!!

Old 04-07-2009, 08:17 AM
Typical Buck
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Default All these short bows!!!

I've been an avid bowhunter/3-D shooter for quite some time now. My past few bows have been (in this order over about a 10 year span):
Diamond Recon
Parker Force Multiplier (I like Parker, but this one was junk)
Hoyt Ultratec
Mathews LX (current)

I'll admit, I'm madly in love with my LX. I've had it for 5 years now. One thing to throw out, I'm not the type of guy who will ever own 2 bows (one hunting and one target)

I'm always looking at the new and latest/greatest stuff. Over the past couple years, I've shot some of the new bows and I can't seem to convince myself to trade the ole LX off. I spent some time last year shooting my cousin's DXT, and I'll admit, I liked it, but I just didn't like it as much.
So the other day I went to the range. I shot 5 different bows.The Hoyt AlphaMaxwas a nice bow, much lighter than the Hoyt's I've shot in the past and I'll bet it would be a good hunting bow, but it didn't "turn me on". The Bowtech (Admiral I believe) was smoother to draw than some of the others, not really agressive to hole and was a pretty smooth shooter. I'll admit, I really couldn't find anything wrong with it per se, it really didn't jazz me up either. That damn little Mathews Hyperlite was like holding a kids bow! It's probably a great treestand but, but holy cow is it little and light! Then there was the Monster. It is a bit bulky in my opinion, but that thing is so freaking fast it blew my mind! It was a little louder than I'm used to and the draw, for me, was just plain weird feeling! Then I shot the Reezen 6.5. I really, really liked that bow. I shot about 20 arrows through the demo bow, then there was a guy there that just bought one and he had it all decked out and he was kind enough to let me shoot 10 arrows through it. It patterned very well for me @ 20 yards and I was very happy with it in general. BUT it is a short little dude as well, compared to what I'm used to. I will also admit that the draw was not as smooth as what I'm used to with my LX.

I've always been told that the shorter ATA bows are GREAT for treestand and blind hunting situations, and I've never saw a reason to dipute that. BUT I've also heard that a slightly longer ATA bow is better for 3-D and spot shooting, because of accuracy and they're much nicer to draw 45-50 times in a row.

Is this mind-set still true?

Is a 32" ATA bow going to be typically not as accurate on the 3D range, compared to a 36" bow? Or am I just being too old fashioned and resistant to change?!!

I'd like to hear some opinions!

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Old 04-07-2009, 03:35 PM
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Default RE: All these short bows!!!

The longer bow offers a more stable platform at full draw and will always be more accurate than the short bow. Target archers are still using 40 inch ATA bows for a reason.

I think you need to define accuracy in the terms in which you use a bow as you are doing. The short ATA bows are fine for putting the arrows in a whitetail kill zone at reasonable hunting distances. Not so fine when counting X's. Half an inch to a whitetail hunter is supper. It's no check for a pro shooter.

I don't like the short bows. Personal preference and feel for me. They don't feel stable at full draw to me. I also remember the days when your LX and my 82nd at 36 and some change would have fallen into the short bow category. 36 is about right for me and what I feel comfortable with.

I don't think you will find anyone that will try to argue that the longer ATA bows are not more accurate and stable than the shorties.
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Old 04-07-2009, 04:56 PM
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Default RE: All these short bows!!!

Have been shooting these crazy wheel bows for 35 years now. I was shooting them when 48" was considered a short bow. I have my own opinion, based on shooting experience with over 30 bows during this time frame. Traget, field, 3D, bowhunting and anything else I could find.

My thought pretty much mirror those of you two. Today's "latest and greatest" craze of short and ultrashort bows is way beyond me. I own a couple of these bows, 32" A2A, and can honestly admit that in the hands of a human a longer bow will be more accurate in any venue.

However, a bow"s geometry has a lot to do with accuracy, too. Anybody remember when straight or deflexed risers were the norm? Add to that an 8" brace height. How about when the grip was centered between the axles and bows balanced and aimed real nice and easy without being top heavy.

Opinions about this will also depend on the experience and/or age of who answers your question. To those who have never had the pleasure to shoot one of yesteryear's bows with round wheels and no hard back wall, but a 1" valley, opinion will most likely lean toward the short, easy to torque, speed bows of today. Afterall, they've never shot anything else. They've been deluged with peer pressure and advertisements putting all the emphasis on speed, speed, speed.

I do admit that today's technology is making archery fun. The shame is. most people will never get to use this technology for achieving the most in accuracy. They don't know what true accuracy is because they have nothing to compare it to.
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Old 04-07-2009, 08:17 PM
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Default RE: All these short bows!!!

I was faced with this same issuie in 2007 when I decided I wanted to replace my mathews feather max of ten years to a new bow.When I finally made my mind up to relieve myself of 800.00 plus in change I started making my rounds to all the local shops to shoot the various bows on the market,man I was shocked at how short all the newer bows were.I a fairly big guy and I wanted to stick with something in the 36" range of my mathews,even though I shot several top of the line bows which most were great shooting bows they just didn't "feel" comfortable or right.I never did get my hands on the mathews lx to shoot though,when I finally narrowed it down to a bowtech gardian or commander and after shooting both several times then going home and coming back and shooting them again I settled on the longer commander and I absolutly love this bow,although I kept my mathews for a backup.The commander is a little over 37" ata and it is a dream to shoot and it just feels so much better in my hand than those short bows and it aims so well espeacilly down range.It has everything you could want for a hunting bow,good speed,smooth,solid and quiet,dependable.Yep I feel you when you speak of longer ata for shootability.
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Old 04-08-2009, 05:51 AM
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Default RE: All these short bows!!!

I too have stuck with the longer bows over the years. I currently shoot a Hoyt Oasis which is 41in A/A and is eleven yrs old. I tried a Bowtech General in my local shop a month ago and it reminded me why I have stayed with the longer bows. I have mainly shot Hoyts over the last twenty years because as everyone else has gone the way of shorter A/A, they have usually continued to build at least a couple of models that were of the longer variety.

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Old 04-08-2009, 03:05 PM
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Default RE: All these short bows!!!

Short Bows? Longer Bows? It really is a personal preference. I personally prefer bows at least 34" A to A.

It just seems to be a break point for me be it string angle or ?? The longer bows do also seem to aim rock solid for me.

Could be the reason why I now have and am preferring the Captain, Sentinel, and the 82nd.

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Old 04-11-2009, 08:24 AM
Typical Buck
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Default RE: All these short bows!!!

ORIGINAL: PastorJim08

I too have stuck with the longer bows over the years. I currently shoot a Hoyt Oasis which is 41in A/A and is eleven yrs old. I tried a Bowtech General in my local shop a month ago and it reminded me why I have stayed with the longer bows. I have mainly shot Hoyts over the last twenty years because as everyone else has gone the way of shorter A/A, they have usually continued to build at least a couple of models that were of the longer variety.

PASTORJIMif you like the longer bows you should really try to get your hands on a commander by bowtech,it shoots like a dream,I think you would love it. Blessings.....Pastorjim
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:46 AM
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Default RE: All these short bows!!!

I prefer bows 32" or shorter, I only bowhunt and once awhile shoot a little 3d just for fun.I have been hunting out of blinds
more and more lately and the short bow comes in handy.I also limit myself to 40yrd shots max and the short bows can handle that easily
if I do my part.
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:59 AM
Typical Buck
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Default RE: All these short bows!!!

I hear you jag,thats why there is more than 1 brand and make of bows,different strokes for different folks.I started out with the longer ata bows and they feel more comfortable to me just like the shorter ata bows feel more comfortanle to you.Ther is no perfect bow that works for everyone.
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Old 04-12-2009, 08:19 AM
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Default RE: All these short bows!!!

I, too, am one of those who fell for the "shorter is better" trick a couple of years ago. I liked the bow, thought it shot pretty well, and all was good until I started shooting in a league where consistently hitting the keyhole of the doorknob on the door of the barn's broad side is all that mattered. Hitting the doorknob wasn't good enough. I learned a lot through the process of trying to get to a point where I could achieve the consistency that this challenge presented, and I considered myself to be a pretty good shot up until then. Here are some of the things that mattered to me:

1. Anchor points: you can never have enough. Okay, I knew that one, and had them down. String to the tip of my nose, kisser button to the corner of my mouth, thumb knuckle right below my earlobe. But I didn't know about the "eyeball anchor" too.
2. Due to the size and shape of my head and face, the string angle from that shorter A-A bow could give me 2 of the 3, but never all 3. I could only get nose-and-mouth if I increased my draw length (and it's already 30", normally) and anchored my release-hand quite a ways behind my ear. Not good. I could get thumb-and-mouth but then the nose anchor was lost and the peep was too far from my eye unless I really tucked my chin down. Nose-and-thumb just was never going to happen unless my nose grew even more.
3. I learned that it is absolutely not good enough to cheat on having the sight ring exactly fill the peep. The peep diameter is variable by changing peeps (or if you're bold, start "too small" and carefully make it incrementally larger with a drill or reamer) and quite a few sights come with multi-position mounting brackets where you can fine tune the distance between the peep and the sight ring to get a precise "fit".
4. The closer I can get the peep to my eye, the better.
5. Brace height and axle-to-axle together are going to direct the string angle @ draw. I haven't really thought about this too much, but I suppose a longer "target bow" A-A and the subsequent steeper string angle can be compenstated for by using a longer D-loop and not messing up the release anchor point.
6. The deflection of the limbs at draw can't be ignored, either. It's not the A-A at rest that's important, it's the A-A at draw.

During the time of my struggles, the local shop started carrying "Brand D" bows. The model "M" seemed a much better fit to my physical attributes (plus is just a much nicer bow!) so I promptly sold my "Brand M, Model _ _ XT" and bought the "M". Night and day difference, no keyhole is safe from me now. About six months later, I tried (and quickly bought) the saucy model "L" by "Brand D", and it was also a perfect fit for me. [Note: "L" is 1" shorter than "M" but the brace height is 1/2" deeper. Geometrically, the string angles at draw are within a quarter of a degree.]

Of all the new bows I shot this winter, the one that had the most appeal to me was the model "G" by "Brand E". Guess what? it's also within a fraction of a degree of the "M". [Note 2: just for kicks, I pulled out the calculator and my trigonometry skills one last time to compare the "_ _ XT" to the "M", and the string angle is 3* to the bad. Mathematically, the string is 3/8" away from the tip of my nose and the peep is just a hair over 1/2" farther away from my eyeball.]

Getting to the end, here: I don't think a short a-a bow can ever work for me, but for smaller people they're probably fine.
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