Landngroove

American Pioneer Powder says to "use no lubes". I am curius as to what you do when shooting patched round balls, and Maxi-Balls, with A.P.P. Do you use lubed patches, or shoot with dry patches? What about Maxi's ? Do you leave the grooves for lube dry, or use a lube? Using A.P.P. with plastic sabots, is no problem, but what about those of us that prefer to shoot prbs, and Maxi's.

MLKeith

I have been shooting APP and Black Mag'3 but mostly with sabots which of course shoot dry. I just bought a T/C Hawken and plan on shooting PRB. I would suggest that one lube that works well with most black powder loads is SPG or if you want a patch lube I would recommend Ballistol either full strength or cut 50-50 with water. Those are the two I plan on trying with Black Mag'3 or Pinnacle and APP is a similar base (ascorbic acid base) powder.

Triple Se7en

Keith

Since I'm a 777 user & you are using other powder options, this may not apply.

My 777 experience with 100% Ballistol as a swab found that lining the bore wall with this stuff when using sabots resulted in difficult loading of the next sabot/bullet if I only swabbed after every 2-3 shots.

Under these circumstances, a tacky bore wall can withstand an undersized lubed conical or pre-lubed patched roundball, but my snug plastic sabot encountered burnt Ballistol resistance -- unless I swabbed after every single shot.

Keep us informed on how it works with AP or BM3. I'm especially interested on 2-3 shots without swabbing using 100% Ballistol as a swabbing agent. I had the exact same troubles when I experimented with Lehigh Valley Lube. Lehigh has the same thin consistency as Ballistol & is billed on the label as a good tool for cleaning and patches with no mention of a 50-50 dilution.

Both companies need to revise their bottle labels for today's primary sabot users -- who don't like to be lied to. I dumped my remaining Lehigh but continue to use the Ballistol on my rifle exteriors occasionally. It really perks-up wood finishes nicely.

cayugad

American Pioneer Powder used to be called Clean Shot I believe. I still have and shoot from time to time Clean Shot. The stuff has little fowling, good power, and cleans up real nice. I shoot it out of my sidelocks and inlines.

When I shoot it out of the sidelocks, I pour the powder down the bore then seat a patched roundball onto the powder. The patch is lubed with a liquid moosemilk substance. I have never had any problems with the powder. I also shoot lubed conicals and buffalo ball-ets which have a real sticky lube on them. I can load a patched roundball time after time without swabbing and accuracy and ignition is great. I am wondering when this Clean Shot is going to go bad. The stuff is well over six years old, and I've sat out there in the snow and rain, loading and shooting and so far the stuff other then clumping from time to time, shoots great.

Landngroove

cayugad: Are you saying that you use a lubed patch, with a roundball, and leave your muzzleloader loaded for a few days, (hunting) and it still shoots with no noticible lack of performance. If so, that is great. I agree with all you say about lack of fowling, cleanup, etc. I have hunted with A.P.P., with sabots (dry), but plan on more traditional hunting, with patched roundballs, out of flinters, and sidelocks this year.

cayugad

I never was one to leave my rifle loaded for a couple days. I fire it at the end of the day, clean it and start fresh again the next day. I've never used Clean Shot for hunting either. When I hunt it is usually Goex black powder now. I do a lot of target shooting and one of the things I have shot is Clean Shot. I actually like the powder. And yes I shoot lubed patches and conicals with the Clean Shot and never had any problem. People told me that the Clean Shot (or APP) has a moisture problem, so when it was snowing, I went out and shot all afternoon in the snow and never had a problem.

I do not think it would work for flinters. The best and most trusted powder still for flinters is pure black powder. Next time to the city I am going to get some APP in 3f just to play with.

I shot some 2 pounds of 3f Pinnacle and it worked real good and I did not think the fowling was bad at all, but of course I shoot Goex so anything is better then that. Do they have any of that Black Mag3 in your area? I would be checking that stuff out if it were in my area....

Landngroove

No Black Mag, or Pinnacle in my area yet. But when it is available I will be trying it. I have been shooting A.P.P. in FFFG. Works great in my in-lines, and sidelocks. I have used it in my flinters, but used either FFFG, or FFFFG, Goex as pan primer. You are right, Goex FFFG would be my first choice for hunting with a flinter, can't beat the reliable ignition. I have used A.P.P. in my flinters, target shooting, and just having fun. It works, but not as reliable as Goex. Does Pinnacle say to use no lubes with it? The local gun shop I go to will be getting Pinnacle in, but not until July. I have never seen Black Mag in my travels. I will ask about it when I go to the gunshop next time. I find that the FFFG A.P.P. works best in sidelocks. I have used FFG A.P.P., but would only use it in in-lines, with 209 ignition.

cayugad

I shot some Pinnacle just his spring. In the flinters, ignition was not the best. If you used a black powder pan charge you had a lot better chance of ignition. I was using lube again with Pinnacle but this was only target shooting. I did shoot 12 T/C Mag Express 240 grain XTP's out of my Wolverine using Pinnacle without having to swab and the accuracy was excellent.

Many years ago I went to Goex for everything. I was a Pyrodex shooter for years, then went to Triple Se7en and finally went back to Goex. I admit it is more messy but the crud can be swabbed from the barrels, the ignition is instant, and it is cheap to shoot.

Right now I am shooting some Swiss Black Powder 3f and it is a real pleasure to shoot this stuff. I wish it was not so expensive. Next time I am going to try some Graf Black Powder in 3f and see how that shoots. It is made by Wano Schwarzpulver of Germany so it should be a good powder.

There is no Black Mag 3 in my area but I have two people in the southern end of the state looking for some for me. When I order my next case of Black Powder I will order a couple pounds of Black Mag3 along with the case to off set the hazmat fees, if my friends have not found it for me yet....

Landngroove

Is Swiss less fouling than Goex? I have never shot Swiss, as it also, is not available around here. Since I switched to FFFG Goex, in my flinters, fouling has been less, than FFG. I thought I read in another post that you also use FFFG. Maybe someday I will order a case of different powders, so I can see for myself what the others are like.

cayugad

The Swiss 3f I was shooting yesterday was excellent. Yes there is a lot less fowling then Goex 3f. I was shooting it out of a T/C .50 caliber Hawkins Flintlock and using it to prime the pan also. It worked excellent. Although I have to adjust the load if I were going to shoot this full time. I was shooting some roundball and some Buffalo Ball-et and it shot almost an inch higher then it normally does when I shoot Goex...

I shoot 3f in all of my .50 & .54 calibers, Traditional or Inline. I shoot FFg in my .58 & .62 caliber. Actually Goex 3f is not all that bad for fowling. The way I look at it, I have to swab for the most part no matter what I am shooting. If you want to really be fair to a projectile then you should swab. So swabbing does not bother me. Its all part of the shooting.

After I have a projectile accuracy down cold. I then like to make sure I can shoot at least three shots without swabbing. I figure this would make a fair hunting test. Shooting Goex 3f three shots are more then possible.

I ordered the Swiss when I got my last case of powder. And I wish it was not almost twice the price of Goex, I would use it more often. It is a little more powerful then Goex also. I had to tune some of the charges down about 10% otherwise the rifles were really barking out there....

I heard the the Graf's Black Powder was about the same as the Goex. Although one person claims if fowled less. We will see on the next case of powder.