No $20 HAZMAT fee here. You can get the coolest 209 primers for $20.68 per 1000 (10 X 100). These are the Rem 209-4 often discussed on various message boards.

Remington 410 Primers

A simpler crud ring cure is to just to use Goex...

Triple Se7en... why would there be no haz mat fee in this purchase? Does this not fall under the same catagory of the powders...

Also Goex does give a crud ring Roundball, at least in my experience. The difference is the crud ring is not hard. It is soft fowling and very easy to remove. That is one reason I stick with Goex. The other reason is I get excellent accuracy using Goex....

Maybe I was born under a star or something...I shoot'em, clean'em, and shoot'em again the next week...the only involvement I've ever had with a "crud ring" is reading posts about it like this thread.

But I don't use advanced, high tech modern solvents, synthetic lubes, and substitute powders...I just use hot soapy water, Natural Lube 1000, and Goex blackpowder...no crud rings

Roundball

You T/C employees make MLing too easy. You guys know all the tricks to easy-shooting. I must be one of those sickos that look for a crisis every time I shoot - then try to find ways to cure them. I know... sounds stupid - is stupid.

Cayugad

Don't know why D&R is side-stepping the HAZMAT charge. Here... read the webpage on it. Also... my thread is in error. It should read "curtail or reduce" instead of cure. My slight ring is now cured... but others may see different mileage on theirs.

No HAZMAT FEE sale on primers

What's the difference between the 410 primers and the 209s?

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The Remington STS 209s are mid-tier strength in igniting. The 209-410s are the mildest in strength. The next weakest are the regular CCIs. The strongest/hottest are the Federals.

Federals
Chedittes
CCI-M
Remington STS
Winchester
CCI
Remington 209-410

It seems like you misinterpreted / overreacted...or just wanted to make a sharp edged response...I never even hinted that what you're doing is stupid, and there was no mention or inference of TC.

I made two simple points:
1) I see a lot of problems posted on a lot of ML boards, ie: crud rings", that I don't have;
2) It may be because I use the old fashioned approaches & products with the sport;

This thread is a detailed discussion about "crud rings" and design engineering differences between modern shotgun primers from different manufacturers.......all to try and get them to work in an old fashioned sport of muzzleloading in hopes of avoiding "crud ring" that doesn't exist using the old ways...it seems like we sometimes create problems that we don't even have to have.

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That's where we disagree Roundball! I was trying to be polite/cordial to you. I know what we do is NOT stupid.

You see..You have a habit of posting after discussions like crud rings, solvents, repeated shot difficulty.... etc. You make shooting sound so easy in your narrow-minded world of roundballs/Bore Butter. You don't try to get involved in our discussions about sabots, plastic, copper solvents, blackpowder subs... etc. You always come into threads like this one with a 180 degree curveball.

A large majority of shooters asking questions about modern bullets & rifles are FORMER roundball shooters (or) shooters who have modern & traditional MLs. These same posters already know the world of roundballs & have already made a financial & mental decision to go another ML course. So many times, your continued same-ol' --- same-ol' talk about sloshes of bore butter in the bore & inexpensive roundballs producing a million shots without swabbing gets old in threads like this.

You have the right to discuss your opinions in a free internet message board as you see fit. But when you come into a sabot discussion with ..."it seems like we sometimes create problems that we don't even have to have".... that's where the problem with your post occurs. Sabots are superior to roundballs. Subs like 777 & Black Mag-3 are superior to your Goex in most situational uses. We cannot use your Wonderlube 1000 with sabots. We cannot shoot all day without swabbing. We need to use harsh solvents sometimes. We prefer storing oils over your Wonderlube 1000 as a bore protector with these modern MLs.

I shoot roundballs & use Wonderlube on occasion. I get alot of shots off without swabbing too. But you don't see mee/read me talking about it during a modern muzzleloading discussion.

Nuthin' stupid about that Mr. Roundball..... actually it's pretty smart. Try it sometime! I do know you shoot modern MLs. Join the discussion about them instead of trying to disrupt it. I'm done here & hopefully you'll begin to share with these posters your ideas about sabots, blackpowder subs & harsh cleaners.

i was using the winchester 209's in my Remington with no crud ring,but was getting so-so accuracy,but switched to the 410's and accuracy was quite improved.But still no crud ring withT7.