RE: watch out for winchester muzzleloaders
 

Wow, does people actually believe some of the guys behind the counter anymore. I have yet to see too many that actually hunts or uses the products they push. They usually go by hearsay and general store myths.

RE: watch out for winchester muzzleloaders
 

Hey no offense taken, but i am man enough to admit that if i made a mistake then I would admit it. I posted this up so all was aware of what happened, not to bash me for a mistake I did not make. I dont give a rats ass what the cabelas salesman says or the winchester rep says. I did not mis load the fricken gun! I am far from a preofesional but love to muzzleload and I shoot it till I find a load that works and then I am done, I stick with it and dont mess with anything else. I just want a fricken gun manufactured right and stop cutting corners with this cheap ****. Make a damn gun with real materials and put your nuts on the line if anything happens to it. We are paying for there guns and putting our lives on the line by shooting it. The best they could od is use top notch materieals. I made a comment about getting rid of all my Winchesters and i regret saying that because Winchester has been around for years and has made great products. I just cant believe they are putting there name on a gun with a ****ty barrel. For the guy who asked the gun split like a banna from the muzzle to the stock. Three different petal just layed out. If it were something in the barrel the barrel would have more then likely blown up and not split. I dont know what the hell happened but it happened and scared the piss out of me and i took it upon myself to post it up and let all know what has happened. It should explain its self that the rep hauled ass after he got the gun and would not stick around till I got there. Nuff said.

Good luck this fall you all and please be safe. Muzz30

RE: watch out for winchester muzzleloaders
 

on that note I've heard of Hodgdon miss labeling powder too. If I remember correctly about 10 years ago there was a lot of I think it was hodgdon Universal shotgun pistol powder was mislabeled and it was recalled the bottles actually had rifle propellant in them that hodgdon doesnt even market labeled as Universal. Also hodgdon just a put another powder recall out on a specific lot number of LIL'GUN powder. I wouldnt doubt that it is a case of mislabeling aswell.

Your gun blowing up may have had nothing to do with winchester or BPI, your trip 7 may not have actually been trip 7.

RE: watch out for winchester muzzleloaders
 

No kidding this thread has gone pretty far, I would love to hear what winchester has to say

RE: watch out for winchester muzzleloaders
 

Actually winchester is not winchester, Winchester is actually just the name US repeating arms puts on their winchester reproductions and newer designs. And winchester ammuniton is not winchester ammuntion, Winchester is just the name Olin corporations puts on their ammunition.
Winchester doesn't actually exist anymore.

RE: watch out for winchester muzzleloaders
 

Well I believe the people at Cabelas, particularly those in the gun dept, have a working knowledge of their wares. The fellow in the ML dept, indicated to me that he test-fires new arrived guns. I tend to believe that, in this case, something was wrong with the powder.

RE: watch out for winchester muzzleloaders
 

Not really. Toby's, and his site, had beeen sponsered by Savage he naturally praised the Savage ML before, since he was essentially working for Savage. In the article about the exploding barrel, he admits that he has been a major proponent of the Savage, using smokeless powders. I understand that his relationship with Savage has now been dissolved. I don't know which party wanted the breakup, but I would bet the failed barrel and publication of the facts, and pictures of the failure, had something to do with that.

Since this incident, Toby has obviously, and understandably, changed his view on the Savage ML, with smokeless powders. The story on his, and other, failed barrels just went on the web site yesterday, before they had time to redo the earlier articles about the Savage. If you visit the site now, you will find those earlier articles are gone and there is a statement from Toby announcing his new policy to only work with "non-smokeless" rifles now.

Mr Bridges change of heart, about the Savage rifles, might have been financially motivated, but I think that a rifle blowing up in his face might have been a factor. also. I certainly applaud him for making the information about the failed barrels public and admitting that he was wrong about the safety of smokeless powders in a muzzleloader, even one that is supposed to be designed for it. This is information the public should know and it hasn't been put out by Savage. There are some misconceptions about the safety of the Savage already out there, as Driftrider's post illustrates, that need to be addressed, before they help lead to more, possibly even fatal accidents.

RE: watch out for winchester muzzleloaders
 

===============================================

Hodgdon has been known to occassionally leave an overhead feeding tube of Pyrodex behind for the first few jugs of 777 at the filling station of their plant, but to the best of my knowledge, no cartridge smokeless powder is bottled or kept at that facility.

Last year, I smelled sulfur while shooting my 777. I returned the 1/2-used jug that I estimated was at least one-third filled with Pyrodex Select by HAZMAT-regulated method & was rewarded with a very generous supply of 777 powder a week later.

Great folks at Hodgon Inc.

RE: watch out for winchester muzzleloaders
 

Well, Muzz, I feel your pain. Alot of people just critisize. I do appreciate you taking your time to come on here and explain your problem. The problem here is people get emotional when you may talk about a gun they might have.

Thanks for your posting.

RE: watch out for winchester muzzleloaders
 

I agree, takes a big man to admit he might have been wrong. And Toby did. Probably hit the ole ego. But you know, he has credability. And thats priceless.

But what he fails to explain in this article is he was almost 5gr over recommended. Not that 1 or 2gr they say you might have to experiment with. Anybody that reloads understands 5gr can be the difference in 55KPSI and 90KPSI. He really doesn't go into much detail on what savage explains.

I think he is the victim of his own knowledge and experience. When I used to do alot of electrical work, it wasn't the scared new engineers recieving RF burns and electrical shocks so much as it was the ones who has done it a million times. I know a rifle that I have overloaded 20 times in a row, I wouldn't have complete trust that the action doesn't have stress cracks in it.