Striper Phil

Here goes, shot my Traditions Evolution inline last night. Stopped using butter pads between shots to improve my 100 yard shots as advised on this thread. Three at 50 yards; 1 bull on the left side of the ten one 9/8 line at 3 o’clock and one 9/8 line at 10 o’clock. So I am happy with this performance. At 100 yards the first three with aiming at the bull was all three down about six inches from the bull at the 4 –5 o’clock position, about a 3 inch group. Next three I aimed at the 11 o’clock position 6 inches off the bull. Another 3 inch group but they were right where I aimed 6 inches off the bull at 11 o’clock. Note each group including the first shot had a flier that I did not count.

Data: using 2 - 50 gr 777 pellets, 250 gr Hornady STPs, Scoped at 4x, shot a cap first to barrel clear check and foul, cleaned the barrel after 7 shots and used clean pads to clear oil out. Had to do this because it was getting tough to drive the sabot down the barrel. Also noticed that after cleaning their was a harder to push the sabot down the barrel spot about ½ way down the barrel for a few inches?

OK experts does this have a simple answer I am missing.

Tomster

SP,

I'm no expert but let me repeat what you said. First 3 shots at 50 yards were right on with one flier. The next three shots were at 100 yards, 6 inches down to the right. Did you then clean the barrell I'll assume yes since that is what you said? Next three you aimed 6 inches high at 100 yards but hit where aimed. so if they were at the bull they would have been right on?

My guess is that the increase in fouling could have caused the last three of the group of 7 to be low. I'm only assuming this since you stated you cleaned the barrell after 7 shots.

Also, you could have pulled the gun slightly to the right if the trigger pull is hard, or your scope needs adjusting for 100 yards. 50 yards and 100 yards might not be exact on the scope.

If you did not pull the gun and your scope is right on, try cleaning the barrell after 3 shots, versus 7. I know when I used the Hornady's 240's, I found them very hard to load. They even broke my loading tool. That is one reason why I switched back to the Powerbelts, since I never had that problem.

Also, start at the 100 yards shot versus 50 next time and see where you are hitting.

Let see if anyone else has better info to offer than I do....

T

Striper Phil

Tomster, Thanks, starting at 100 yards is for sure the next to try. I dont know why but I always have started at the shorter range. Will shoot this weekend and let you know the results. By the way wou did understand what I said Thanks again Phil

Tomster

Phil,

Yes, I believe understood what you were saying. I don't know what is happening with the barrel being extra fouled about 1/2 way down. In the 4 years I have been doing ML, I have not encountered that problem. This also could have been throwing off your shot. At least you are hitting the target with your loads. Next is figure out why the deviation on the 100 yards and clean that up and your ready for deer hunting. I haven't shot my ML's since January, when I got my last doe but I usually will do some shooting before September and resight the inline and flint for 100 yards. Also, I am shooting my bow this year so I'm doing that fairly frequently now. That season starts in October before the early ML, so I want to be ready.

Most ML shots are under 100 yards anyway, but I feel if you only sight in at 50, you will have an issue if you see one and it's at 70 or more yards. Also, I have heard that if you are hitting at 25 yards, at 100 yards you will also be on. The bullet travels in a bell shape curve, and if you sight in at 50, you will be a few inches down at 100, 6 inches could be correct. Something else to consider. If you sight in at 100, at 50 you should be hitting the target a little high, maybe an inch or slightly more, which is normal.

Tom

UncleNorby

Here's the deal IMO. I agree that the difference in impact at 100 yds was due to cleaning or fouling.

The important shot in muzzleloading is the first. You should get a load you are happy with, and then for your fine tuning, simulate that "first shot" condition by having your gun the exact same as it will be for that first shot at game. Whether that's a clean dry bore, a fouled bore, whatever, it's up to you. Maybe that means you have to swab your bore after every shot, then dry it, then foul it. It's a pain, but if you want to know where that first bullet is going it's worth it.

It seems like some guns, especially inlines and sabots, are finicky. The first shot may be low, then 3-4 subsequent shots are "right on" then the next couple wander a bit and are really tough to load.

My gun does not shoot differently with a clean bore vs. a fouled bore, until shot #7 or so, so I hunt with a clean dry bore. I find that a hangfire can occur if your gun is loaded and the bore is fouled for a couple days. But that's with a hammer gun and regular #11 caps.

cayugad

After putting 30 grains of powder in the barrel and a cloth wad I fowl the barrel. I then load for target. After that first shot, I take a patch which I wet with denatured alcohol and swab down and back, turn it over and repeat. Then I run a dry patch down and up. Then load for the second shot. If you do this, all your shots should be about the same downrange.

The trouble cleaning after several shots I found is, the fowling is building up this entire time. Any change in fowling amount does have the possible effect of changing your group. In fact you report the sabot is hard to load. It will also be hard to load after cleaning unless you let the rifle sit a few minutes. You want the barrel to have approximately the same fowling it would have for each and every shot.

Try your test again and this time swab between each and every shot. Your barrel needs time to cool also. It sounds like you have a good shooting rifle there...

herman

Cayugad has a good point I do the same between each shot when using my encore,knight or ruger,I don't use alcohol but I take and lick the patch run it down the barrel in short strokes,working it down to the bottom,turn the patch over run it back down the barrel and out.then reload.Do the same with my savage but use a dry patch for it.

Striper Phil

WOW thanks for all the good ideas. I will try the wet and dry swab after each shot including the first. One flier was the first shot at 50 where I usually don't have any trouble. I do agree the only shot that counts is the FIRST. I tell a lot of once a year so called hunters this when it takes them 3 shots or so to find the target Oh Well !!! THANKS A LOT it sure is good to get such great help so easy on this board!

loner

i started out listening to these '' PROS'' about being able to shoot 10-12 shots without cleaning the barrel just because you could still push a ball or sabot down the barrel.i shoot a knight LK-93 .50 cal. with a rem 275 ge sabot and can get 1-2" groups at 100 yards.however, the only reason i can is by running a wet patch down the bore followed by a clean one after each shot.when hunting,i carry a murine bottle with peroxide along with cleaning patches in my shirt pocket along with my quickie loaders.my jag stays on my ramrod for quick use.i have not had to worry about a second shot,but when i shoot a deer,i soak the patch with a few drops of peroxide,swab the barrel,run a clean patch to dry,pop a cap to clear then reload.never had a misfire.

Triple Se7en

Loner

Peroxide-swabbing?? I thought I read somewhere that peroxide will drop the life of your bore by 1/2. Ever since I read a thread on it two years ago, I always avoided trying it... even in a 50-50 diluted mixture. The same with vinegar & ammonia. Not sure what happens inside the bore... all I know is they're all slow destroyers. That's what I've read by posters across this country on 19 forums I've visited. Maybe you are right & they are wrong... all I know is "I ain't trying it"