Hey guys,

I plan on getting into muzzleloading next season and I've been thinking about a T/C Omega or Savage 10ML. Just wondering if anyone has the 10ML? If so, what are your thoughts on it? I'm not too worried about price as I'm a believer in "you get what you pay for". I know I'll enjoy the sport and am looking for a long term investment. However, I also feel that the T/C encore is just too over priced. Also, are there any clear advantages to smokeless powder and is Savage the only company that shoots smokeless powder? Any thoughts, fact or oppinion, would be appreciated.

Thank you for your help

This is just my opinion; Savage 10ML I am sure is an excellent rifle. I have read some good reviews about it. Perhaps the ability to use smokeless powder is an advantage, I don't see it that way. Since the Savage will shoot conventional black powder and substitutes your only advantage over a T/C Omega is the ability to use the smokles powder. I don't think if you compared them accuracy wise there would be any difference (again, my opinion).

I have no idea about how Savage's customer support or customer service department is or their warranty. I would "guess" it is good. I do know that Thompson Center stands behind their product excellent, and are more then willing to help with any problem you might have with their rifles.

I am sure that both rifles are excellent. Price wise might be a difference, I have not checked. I just ordered the T/C Black Diamond XR, which as I was explained has the same barrel as the Omega. The difference is they are on sale at Cabela's for $229.00. I will use the money I save on this rifle to get a nice scope if the one I currently have is not what I want, and to get the extra stuff that inlines need. I currently have four other sidelocks, so getting into the world if the inline is a new experience for me. The information I was given in the message boards was of great value.

Which ever rifle you pick, welcome to the world of black powder. Believe me, it gets in your blood and you are hooked. This makes hunting a whole new experience.

Thanks Cayugad. I certainly appreciatiate your input. Since I'm not looking to purchase an ML right away, I'll continue to research and find out more. Investing in a quality scope will be the next task.

Thanks
Bn'R

There are huge advantages to smokeless powder: lower cost per shot, less recoil for the same velocity, and no corrosive fouling.

I enjoy my Encore, like my Knight Elite, and several other muzzleloaders-- but the Savage is on a level all its own, particularly now with its Accu-Trigger model.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/instant_slamification.htm

Thanks Randy,

Any other advice to offer? If not, it's just going to be the matter of finding the best price

Bn'R

I have ruger,knight,T/C and savage muzzleloaders,and all will shoot 1 inch and less,the savage with either powder.So you can shoot either in the savage.I would get which ever one you are more comfortable shooting.
Not just a few but many of the fellows I talk to are shooting the smokeless in their muzzleloaders,after manufactors telling them that it is unsafe.I think they are taking unnessary chances,which I am up in years and want to hunt a few more years so I don't take that kind of chances.Point is if you have any thoughts on shooting the smokeless I would go with the Savage,you wouldn't have to worry everytime you pulled the trigger if it was going to blow up in your face.
Good luck in what ever you choose and have fun shooting.

I'm sure the savage is a very fine strong rifle, it just doesn't trip my trigger. The biggest negative is you souldn't try loading smockless by volume. This means you will have to premeasure a lot of charges or take your scale with you to the range. I find it simpler to use a more traditional powder or replacement. As for the velocity, I didn't fall in love with muzzleloading because the bullets were fast. I like the challenge of one shot, questioning whether the thing will fire and having to get up close.

45Hawken,
Why shouldn't you measure smokeless powder by volume? I reload standard cartridges and use a powder measure (volume) all the time, unless I'm going for extreme accuracy. When I measure by weight, I still start by volume, then check each load by weight/scales. It is only off by tenths of one grain.

I bet that if you would weigh your black powder charges, that you measured by volume, you would find that they are just as different.

I would go with the Savage simply for the ease of cleaning with the smokeless powder.

MH

Mainehunt,

I hear what you're saying. Although, there will always be something to clean, I really like the fact of smokeless powder being less corrosive and from what I'm hearing much easier to clean. All of my guns are pretty well kept. If I can find a way to make my job a bit easier then I'll give it a try. Heck, why spend anymore energy cleaning than necessary? Save it for the hunt

The fact is, I've been a shotgun hunter for years. If you want a challenge try shooting a whitetail in the Adirondacks or in the foothills with a 12 gauge! I think that the accuracy and range of this in-line will be a nice change.

Once again, I appreciate everyone's input. It's all new to me. Thanks gentlemen

Bn'R

The main reason not to measure smokeless by volume is accuracy. If I am using regular black powder or pyrodex and set my powder measure at 100gr I can mistakenly set the measure off one or to gr above or below that figure and not change the pressure placed on my rifle much. Do the same with smokeless setting your measure at 43gr of 4227. If you are off by 2gr of powder you still can have a safe load, but the percentage of change to your charge has been increased or decreaed more than double what the charge for large volume powders is.
I'll admit that there are times it would sure be nice not to have to deal with the hassles that come with traditional powder. My biggest fear is that some fools will get themselves killed. I'm not blaming Savage for the actions of stupid people. My problem is the way some people will interpret the recomended loads for the savage. Take the 43gr of 4227. Savage recommends the max load of black powder for their rifle is 150gr. They also recommend several loads of smokeless. Someone, somewhere will take this info and conclude that these two powders are equal and load a traditional muzzeloader with 43gr 4227. Then their heirs will sue both Savage and Knight, T/C, CVA or whoever. Win or lose, the cost of doing business just went up and my next rifle will cost more.