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Some Observations

Old 10-04-2021, 03:32 PM
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Default Some Observations

Over the past couple months I've been shooting some new muzzys and my CVA Accura V2 which I swapped out a scope. The newer ones were a new to me Rem 700ML and a new Knight Disc Extreme. And I had a Badger Ridge 209 ignition system installed on the Rem and the Disc Ext I put in a Lehigh 209 conversion.
Through past experience I knew that Alliant Black MZ, 80 gr and a 300 gr Hornady .430" XTP in a green Harvester CR sabot was the most accurate load (the .452" in a black CR is just as accurate) in the Accura V2. So switching scopes and sighting in was a snap.
But going to both the Rem and Knight was a different story. Try as I might, and I really did, I wanted BH209 to work in these rifles or at least in one of them. But alas it was not to be. After a couple frustrating outings with each one I went and tried the Black MZ. The results were real eye openers. Groups for both rifles shrunk considerably. The Knight showing the best improvement with groups going from about 2.5" down to just a tad over 1"! The Rem improved also and is accurate enough for my hunting but I'm sure can be tweaked a bit more next year.
Another observation I noticed is that for consistency I like to swab the bore after each shot so that all (except the first) shots are shot out of the same semi clean bore. In doing so at the range and using the proper solvents for BH209 and Black MZ I found that the Black MZ leaves considerably less fouling in the bore. Both are easily removed but the 209 requires more swabbing.
Now for all you fans out there I know that with equal charges BH209 will give you higher velocities and I won't argue that point. But IMO I prefer accuracy over velocity and in 3 out of 3 of my inlines, Black MZ wins hands down in the accuracy department.
So OK now you can beat me up if you like but my targets don't lie!!!!
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Old 10-06-2021, 10:43 AM
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All i can say is, 2 powders dominate the inline shooting matches at Friendship. All the top 5 spots have used one of these 2 powders as long as the scores have been posted on MML.
BlackHorn209
Swiss

I have not seen any flavor of APP even break into the top 15 spots in all the scores ive seen posted. Not a single one. Black Mag did many many years ago. Probably before BH209 was even around. They took a #5 spot in a Savage ML or MLII. Ive seen other subs manage in the top 10 occasionally but its not that common. Plain old Goex probably had more.

Last edited by Gm54-120; 10-06-2021 at 10:50 AM.
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Old 10-06-2021, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Gm54-120 View Post
All i can say is, 2 powders dominate the inline shooting matches at Friendship. All the top 5 spots have used one of these 2 powders as long as the scores have been posted on MML.
BlackHorn209
Swiss
I have not seen any flavor of APP even break into the top 15 spots in all the scores ive seen posted. Not a single one. Black Mag did many many years ago. Probably before BH209 was even around. They took a #5 spot in a Savage ML or MLII. Ive seen other subs manage in the top 10 occasionally but its not that common. Plain old Goex probably had more.
That's perfectly fine GM and I won't argue the point but I am reporting what I experienced and I'm not concerned about what any others use or think. I know what works for me and that's what I'll use. I gave BH209 a fair try twice and it just didn't work for me.
I can say that I'm pretty sure without running thru the chrony that BH209 will give better velocity using equal charges. But I'd rather hit slow than miss fast!
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Old 10-07-2021, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by bronko22000 View Post
.......................So OK now you can beat me up if you like but my targets don't lie!!!!
I don't think anyone wants to beat you up over your choice of propellants, but you also opened it up for others to respond and disagree.

Originally Posted by bronko22000 View Post
...............That's perfectly fine GM and I won't argue the point but I am reporting what I experienced and I'm not concerned about what any others use or think. I know what works for me and that's what I'll use. I gave BH209 a fair try twice and it just didn't work for me.................
If Black MZ works for you, by all means keep using it.
However, BH does have a slight learning curve at times. If a rifle has the correct breech plug for proper ignition and a proper fitting bullet or sabot/bullet combination, BH will be as accurate or more accurate a propellant as any other, including Black MZ.
Consider that fact that you can find Black MZ on shelves, yet try to find BH. There's a reason its the most popular loose propellant.
But again, if Black MZ is working for you, keep using it.
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Old 10-07-2021, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by BarnesAddict View Post
I don't think anyone wants to beat you up over your choice of propellants, but you also opened it up for others to respond and disagree.



If Black MZ works for you, by all means keep using it.
However, BH does have a slight learning curve at times. If a rifle has the correct breech plug for proper ignition and a proper fitting bullet or sabot/bullet combination, BH will be as accurate or more accurate a propellant as any other, including Black MZ.
Consider that fact that you can find Black MZ on shelves, yet try to find BH. There's a reason its the most popular loose propellant.
But again, if Black MZ is working for you, keep using it.
Barnes I've been really trying to like BH209. My Knight and Rem and CVA all have BH209 compatible BPs. I've tried different bullets, sabots, charges, compression and primers but just can't get it to shoot as well for me. Oh it does shoot OK but not as good as MZ. I don't know what else to try. I bought 2 canisters last year before everything hit the fan still have an almost full canister left.
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Old 10-08-2021, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by bronko22000 View Post
Barnes I've been really trying to like BH209. My Knight and Rem and CVA all have BH209 compatible BPs. I've tried different bullets, sabots, charges, compression and primers but just can't get it to shoot as well for me. Oh it does shoot OK but not as good as MZ. I don't know what else to try. I bought 2 canisters last year before everything hit the fan still have an almost full canister left.
Sometimes a guy hits on something that just flat out works for him and there's nothing wrong with continuing to use it.
There are guys that swear up and down that the absolute worse propellant one can shoot are pellets, yet 90% of all these extended season hunters would get by with them easily. I have some pretty nice long range targets using T7 pellets
Since my first change to my old BP Xpress, the breech plug, I completely stopped shooting anything with sabots and in all honesty my groups tightened. I started out shooting the Fury bullets, which i still hunt with and now shoot the Arrowhead 300gr XLD bullets for extreme accuracy at long range. If you wanted to play more, you might order the no sizing Fury bullets and give those a try. The guys with RUM's and UF rifles are having extremely accurate groups with them from their 50cal rifles.
But then again, if that MZ is doing exactly what you need, keep using it. Confidence is everything.............
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Old 10-08-2021, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by BarnesAddict View Post
Sometimes a guy hits on something that just flat out works for him and there's nothing wrong with continuing to use it.
There are guys that swear up and down that the absolute worse propellant one can shoot are pellets, yet 90% of all these extended season hunters would get by with them easily. I have some pretty nice long range targets using T7 pellets
Since my first change to my old BP Xpress, the breech plug, I completely stopped shooting anything with sabots and in all honesty my groups tightened. I started out shooting the Fury bullets, which i still hunt with and now shoot the Arrowhead 300gr XLD bullets for extreme accuracy at long range. If you wanted to play more, you might order the no sizing Fury bullets and give those a try. The guys with RUM's and UF rifles are having extremely accurate groups with them from their 50cal rifles.
But then again, if that MZ is doing exactly what you need, keep using it. Confidence is everything.............
Wow Barnes...I just checked on those Arrowhead bullets. For my use I just cannot justify paying over $2 for a bullet. Probably if I was shooting competitively that would be different.
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Old 10-08-2021, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bronko22000 View Post
Wow Barnes...I just checked on those Arrowhead bullets. For my use I just cannot justify paying over $2 for a bullet. Probably if I was shooting competitively that would be different.
Consider the Fury line of bullets. Very accurate and excellent on game. Dennis, the owner is as good as they come to work with.
Black Powder Muzzle Loader Bullets – Fury Custom Bullets
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Old 10-09-2021, 10:00 AM
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Still way too salty for me friend. I'll stick to my XTPs and Barnes bullets. The dead deer won't know the difference and these bullets are plenty accurate enough for all my hunting. I don't plan on shooting competitively any time soon
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Old 10-11-2021, 01:17 PM
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I'm right there with you Bronko, It's either XTP's or Speer Deep Curls for me, along with home cast lead balls and Ed Mehlig's .451 conicals.
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