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Need some advice

Old 01-19-2021, 02:29 PM
  #1  
Fork Horn
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Default Need some advice

Hi everyone, I have an interesting situation. I just got off the phone with Idaho fish and game, and it turns out that in a general any weapons hunt, which is for black bear that I am planning this spring, The only regulation for muzzleloaders is it had to be 50 caliber.

if I was doing a muzzleloader only hunt, a lot more restrictions would be in place.

The other thing is, I have two friends from Japan coming in summer. They want to try and to see how Americans shoot guns.

I was thinking that I could get a flintlock, to teach them the history of American guns. I was also thinking of using it during the bear season, but I donít know if this is advisable.

Hereís where I need advice. For teaching about the history of American firearms and for a black bear hunt in a general any weapons season, will a flintlock be a good idea? If not, whatís a good recommendation on a muzzleloader?

Just so you all know, it has to be 50 caliber in my state for black bear.

Any help will be appreciated, Jared
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Old 01-19-2021, 04:22 PM
  #2  
Spike
 
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I have always found the flintlock to be more distracting than the caplock when it comes to firing a muzzleloader. Not sure if I was introducing new shooters to muzzleloading I would use a flintlock. On second thought, maybe I would. My .32 cal Seneca is a flintlock, and would probably be a better choice than either of my .54 cal caplocks.

While I have no desire to hunt bear in any way, I would not use a flintlock for it. I have had more misfires while hunting small game with my Seneca than I have had with my caplocks while hunting deer, hogs and turkeys.

Just my 2 cents
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Old 01-19-2021, 04:42 PM
  #3  
Nontypical Buck
 
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I honestly would go trying to teach them how to use a muzzleloader,a s your new at it yourself
WHY make the work and efforts, when you could spend a fraction of the $$ on .22 ammo and let them have a LOT of shooting time in with a LOT less risks of anything going wrong!
a s i gather they will also enjoy shooting something they can see the target after the shot is fired!

from there Maybe go forward pending there plans and all
a bunch also comes down to your budget here too!

I would think most new shooters(and I taught a few hundred over the yrs)
all just want to learn basic's and nothing beats a 22 for teaching IMO
a good bench, a close target and good safety gear, good instructions and they will have a BLAST, you can stretch distance as there skills evolve
and then, maybe add different guns to the fun, like a shotgun(as again ammo is cheaper)
they can try there luck at shooting a moving target(clay bird)
and have stories to tell of there shooting when they go home!

NOW<> there is NOTHING wrong with a 50 caliber flintlock for bears, as long as you use the right load and bullets, and can HIT where you need to at ranges things are in check with!

I personally am NOT a fan of flintlocks either, but that's a personal thing
on a side note I have seen a few come apart over the yrs and seen a few folks get seriously injured(mostly due to there mistakes)
one friend of mine is missing a thumb(has a toe where it should be now)

but the flintlock gun and caliber is up to the task of killing ab bear for sure IF you do your part right!
I Zero desire to do so with one however!




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Old 01-20-2021, 07:57 AM
  #4  
Fork Horn
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Thank you both for the advice. I think Iíll choose a different muzzleloader then. Iíll figure out which one would be good for me.

However, if you guys want to give advice on a muzzleloader I could purchase that would be good for beginners, and thatís the least 50 caliber, I would appreciate it. Only if you guys want to, Jared
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Old 01-20-2021, 10:30 AM
  #5  
Nontypical Buck
 
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as far as muzzleloaders go, inline are the easiest to use IMO, the most modern designs, are most user friendly and optic ready
there are Ton's of different makes and models and all are SAFE when used right, just like any firearm is
features
I like , in a inline, will be either stainless steel or at least a good coating on metal parts(be it cera cote or like specialty coatings
as ALL black powder is highly corrosive, so the better protected the metal is, from it the better!
I like easy access to breech plugs, and I prefer 24-26 inch barrels
since I am Not a BIG fan of black powder in its main variety, I
as I there for like the more modern versions/substitutes of it, like Black horn 209
which can be used in SOME muzzleloaders, so, that would be a requirement for me, to be able to use it

it is far less corrosive, and doesn't have the BIG cloud of smoke allowing you to see your target/game WAY better and follow where it goes after a shot , IMO< making a more reliable /higher odds of recovery!
not to mention it doesn't stick like rotten eggs so much(sulfur smell)
and since again its NOT as corrosive, its not as critical to be cleaning things after shooting or worries about transferring the Black powder onto other things when handling or shooting it (as on fingers and transferred onto other items)

I am also, more a modern guy I like more modern sights(fiber optic open sights) and or better yet a GOOD scope on things!

BUT these options I LIKE
may limit the muzzle loader you can legally use pending your state rules on things and what season!

CVA, Traditions, Thompson center, are the most common ( IMO) and have offering from low budget to higher end models
making the odds if EVER need a part , there most likely easier to get one for it!

some models been about for a LONG time and as such there is a reason many have stood the test of time
take that as you wish

the name of the game in inlines. and or Muzzleloaders in general is being 100 % consistent, with your loading and being
100& SAFE and knowing what being SAFE means
and then storing your powder RIGHT, as storage matters when dealing with loose powder!

after that its again like any other firearm, you need to be proficient and KNOW your limits on what you able to hit reliably and in the range the weapons capable of cleanly killing at!
and that comes from learning HOW to shoot accurately , and knowing what the caliber /rifle can do on paper and SHOOTING at ranges you will shoot at game, so you KNOW you can hit things at these ranges consistently!




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Old 01-21-2021, 05:51 AM
  #6  
Boone & Crockett
 
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Trust me when it comes to shooting a flintlock. Redneck said is true about a distraction. Especially for me being a southpaw. In humid or damp weather they can get cantankerous too. One shot may be almost instantaneous and the next you will have a delay. Shooting a flinter in damp weather will cause condensation to build up in the pan/flint/frizzen area (basically the lock).
In PA we have a late season that is flintlock only .44 cal or larger. My friend and I have a blast because we are usually the only ones in the woods where we hunt. I can honestly say that I had never missed a deer in my hunting career until I started using a flinter! Most of the misses were due to excitement of getting a quick shot and forgetting to "follow through" on the shot. I had a tendency to drop the barrel once the pan went off. Its amazing how fast the body can react. And this reaction coupled with the slight delay of the main charge caused complete misses. Now don't get me wrong - Flinter are super fun. I don't think I'd ever be without one.
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Old 01-21-2021, 10:51 AM
  #7  
Giant Nontypical
 
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A flintlock is to frustrating for a beginner, a side lock , say a Hawken or Renegade would be where I would start also they are excellent hunting weapons, I have taken a number of black bear and my favorite is a 54 caliber with a PRB and 120 grains of Black.
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Old 01-21-2021, 12:26 PM
  #8  
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Originally Posted by lemoyne View Post
A flintlock is to frustrating for a beginner, a side lock , say a Hawken or Renegade would be where I would start also they are excellent hunting weapons, I have taken a number of black bear and my favorite is a 54 caliber with a PRB and 120 grains of Black.
Lemoyne - I got away from the "little" .50 calibers too. I love shooting my .58s. I have one in percussion and one in flint. The percussion is a 1:60 (or 66") GM barrel and the flinter is a custom 1:60 made by Bob Hoyt. Both are 32" and on Renegade stocks and shoot great with 100 gr of Goex FFg and a .570 ball and .015" pillow tick patch with olive oil lube.
I've tried several different patch lubes and good old OO give me the best groups.
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Old 01-21-2021, 01:56 PM
  #9  
Spike
 
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Like I said before while I have no interest in hunting bear, I have hunted deer with a muzzleloader where bear populations exist. Always felt my .54 caplocks were up to the challenge if I needed to shoot a black bear. One is an old TC Hawken that will be retired now that she did the job on #50 on New Year's Eve. She's been a good companion thru 36 years of hunting and she's getting tired. Groups aren't as tight as they used to be, and the stock is scratched, scuffed and bears teeth marks from a 6 month Lab. But I can't bring myself to rebarrel or restock her. The other is a Lyman Great Plains Hunter I purchased so I can use bullets and sabots instead of just balls.

I do have a 209x50 for my Encore, just have never had much luck when hunting with it.
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Old 01-25-2021, 03:07 PM
  #10  
Fork Horn
 
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You would have to spend alot of time learnin the workings and functions of a f/lock and spend considerable range time before you would be ready to hunt game.Especially larger dangerous game.Not only for your safety but for the ethics for the animal.You need to find a mentor who can take you under their wing.Alot of sportsman groups have such programs and members to help.
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