Herein lies a big problem we need to fix......... I don't hate CVA rifles. So now that that's straightened out, hopefully, I never cared for CVA rifles or anything about them.

They are not the best ergonomically designed rifle. And before you want to go off on what ergonomics is, or what CVA might call ergonomics, you should know that I'm a retired Ergonomist. I'll bet CVA never had an Ergonomist review their rifles and most likely no one there can spell it correctly or know what an Ergonomist does.

I don't own CVA rifles and won't. I don't care for anything about them. However, if you go back and read my prior comments, you'll see where I've set them up for their owners and have shot many of them. I do not like the fit or feel of any of the different models. IMO the only decent rifle they made, they quit making and that was the Apex.

When there are multiple ways to make a product, the least costly way to make whatever product you're making, is to use lessor quality parts. Its simple business 101. Lessor quality parts cost less than high quality parts for the same product, regardless the product. Lessor quality parts for products are a huge contributing factor when it comes to recalls, regardless of the recalled product. An..... extreme example..... a kid can create on a 3-D printer a plastic wheel bearing for your auto. Now would you rather use that kid's wheel bearing or a steel wheel bearing you pick up at NAPA?

You say you don’t hate CVA.
But you say:
I never cared for CVA rifles or anything about them? Why because they are not expensive enough for you?

You made a statement about CVA not hiring an ergonomics & most likely no one there can spell it correctly. Do you know this for a fact? I personally have never heard of the word. Do you think all other muzzleloader manufactures hired agronomics?

The only decent rifle they made is the Apex. Why in your opinion was the Apex so much better? Why are all the other models not decent?

I don’t own a CVA rifle and won’t. There is no discussion there, but it is a negative statement that would definitely turn new perspective buyers away.

What you say and how you say it appears to me that you are angry with CVA, let’s just say you don’t hate them. Why are you as negative as you can possibly be when you mention CVA? Not only that, why do you have to go into so many things negative about CVA that you can get into one post. I am puzzled, in other posts you say that CVA gets the job done, in the next breath you bash CVA. If you don’t hate CVA why do you bash them at every opportunity?

Every one of your questions to me has been answered multiple times.

However, your questions are repetitive and you're still looking for some type of support or answer that fits your current needs. I'm quite sure I am unable to do that.

I have no current needs, it is not I that has a dislike for CVA. If my questions have been answered multiple times I would have had no reason to ask them. I am not going to try to twist your arm, but you have still not given a reasonable answer as to why you bash CVA as much as you do, for no apparent reason. As you stated you have never owned one and have no intention to, where does your personal dislike for CVA come from, definitely not from a personal experience with CVA. No problem, I can live with no answers. You just have nothing to justify your utter disregard and dislike for CVA or your bashing of them. I won't bother you anymore.

Well I smell a dissatisfied person in d.winsor. One that seems to try to antagonize. We have all answered your question. Barnesaddict has many times said he hasn't owned one nor does he want to but he has set many up for other people. That suggests to anyone with a small bit of intelligence that he has plenty of experience with many different models of CVA rifles. I never owned a hand grenade but in 12 years in the Corps I surely handled quite a few and can give personal experience in their function. You just haven't gotten the answers, or the bans I am thinking, that you seek. You asked me and others to provide proof, which myself and others did, yet you ignore the answers because they go against your little agenda. CVA has been sued for patent infringement 26 times. Settled out of court 18 times and lost the other 8. They have been sued I don't know how many times for safety infractions causing injury to customers which is why Dikar bought Bergara to hopefully stem the bleeding. I personally refuse to deal with shady companies. Mathews Archery courted my dad and my sister to shoot and advertise for them for years. The old man felt about Mathews the same as CVA. Tech thieves claiming bought or flat out stolen innovation as their own. Single cam? Martin. Parallel Limbs? Rigid, Browning, and even junky Oneida beat Mathews to that ridiculous claim. And BowTech slapped them and made them cry for mommy in the PL limb dept. Weighted cam? Bear. Not a single thing about a Mathews bow can be directly attributed to Mathews only. Probably 65% of their so called innovations come directly from Martin. But they are marketing geniuses and know how to throw advertising dollars at the market.

I am the last person to be antagonizing anyone about CVA. After having the thread hijacked, If asking someone to explain their complete dissatisfaction for a muzzleloading manufacturer is antagonizing you, I am sorry. You speak for a lot of people, concerning a lot of things that are not relevant here. I would think that those people could speak for themselves, about any issues I have addressed. I seek no answers, just some clarification of why you people hate CVA with such a passion, for no apparent reason. What if CVA is highly profitable with their corporate marketing? I thought that is what free enterprise was all about. If it bothers you to read my posts, don’t read them. I am not directing any personal malice towards anyone, you can reply to my post or not that is up to you. If you don’t want to comment towards my thread “What is brand bashing”, and choose to hijack it then, get out of it, why aggravate yourself. I hope I don’t bother you anymore. Have a good day!

Your question has been answered and re answered several times by several people. The horse is dead, it's feet are sticking up in the air and it is stinking to high heaven and buzzards are circling it. Way past time to stop beating it!

You people keep speaking for other people, let them speak for themselves and you speak for yourself. If my questions, of which amounts to one, that is why do you people have such disgust for CVA and Brand bash it at every opportunity? For no apparent reason. You yourself have said a lot in a little sentence, but have provided no further clarification to the issue much less the truth. You just make random statements about nothing, to either bash a product or a person. Evidently this horse is not dead as yet, as you keep prodding it, trying to revive it. What you smell is the stench of a hijacked thread that you helped orchestrate and is dying.
I don’t know what you think but I have learnt a lot about brand bashing. I have had it explained to me and then have had it demonstrated. What have you learnt?

Actually I don't care one way or the other about CVA rifles, I just think after the same crap keeps being brought up by a poster time and time again because he doesn't like the answers he got he keeps repeating the same old crap it is time to stop. I think he should be smart and adult enough to let it go, because he is sounding more and more like a petulant child that wants what he wants and wants it now. What is going on now is brand "shilling".

This is beyond ridiculous.
Your giving him the exposure he wants by arguing with him I suggest we do not read his posts and never answer them.