Unsupported Shooting
 

After i tagged my gut shot deer, i decided i would try to improve my off hand shooting. Almost every day since January 4, i have practiced. It seems like i am more consistent now than i was when i started, but still am not real good at it. Today i shot 10 shots from 89 yard. Load is my hunting load; 300g XTP, 105g Blackhorn, black crush rib, W209 primer. Rifle is an Omega Dream Season. The sight is Williams FP with the largest available aperture.
















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Looking at that group i'd shoot closer, or keep practicing.

I'm not real good at it either

https://www.reveresriders.org/

or the Appleseed group are both organizations of skilled trainers as well as NRA instructors.

Get a good strap on there and learn to use it.

You can learn the basics of shooting off hand just as well with a pellet gun or even better an adult size 22 rifle.

I'd say its good shooting. Elk and deer vitals are a lot bigger than that piece of paper. Also have to factor in the trigger pull, its nothing like a double set hair trigger which will limit the accuracy IMO.

My secret to getting tighter groups than-that at 100 yards offhand, is limiting the blackpowder to 80gr with 300gr bullet and 90gr blackpowder with a bullet that 200 to 240gr.

I may think I'm just as steady-handed firing with something like 105gr, but I'm really not. I can duplicate everything using 80 - then 105, but I always get better target holes with 80gr of powder. My only explanation for that is in my forend hold and I've never used the secured strap-hold to this day.

I was taught it by a military instructor years ago and never applied it to my range or hunting rituals.

Ron I'd have to agree that those shots aren't very good. I'm not being critical just stating a fact. But keep practicing and you should easily cut that group size in half.
There are a couple tricks to improve your performance that I've learned from competitive shooting that should help.
Eliminate as much muscle tension as possible. Horizontal position: Shoulder your rifle with your eyes closed. You should be in line with your target. If not, adjust your foot position. Vertical position: Position your off hand on the forend closer or farther while resting your upper arm against your body.
Relax. Concentrate on your target. You will never hold your rifle dead solid. The trick is with practice to get the sights moving in ever tightening circles around the bull. With time this circle will become smaller and smaller.
And lastly don't snap the trigger when you're "on target" but rather squeeze the trigger applying more pressure only when you're on target. Let the shot surprise you.
This may all sound like basic instruction but its surprising how many do not do this.
But no matter how good you become it is always better, when possible, to use a support of some kind.
I don't have much of a problem shooting my caplocks or inlines off hand. But if I'm shooting a flinter, and my shots are over 50 yards, I will always use some kind of support, usually a tree, or go to a kneeling position.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Primos-reg-Gen-Trigger-Sticks/1615720.uts?productVariantId=3498453&WT.tsrc=PPC&W T.mc_id=GoogleProductAds&WT.z_mc_id1=03689369&rid= 20&gclid=CLuolbuA69ECFdW4wAodPtYGPg&gclsrc=aw.ds

Shooting off hand is very humbling for bench shooters accustom to shooting sub MOA.

You CAN improve however, with practice; just like anything else.

Keep at it..............................


I shot skeet until I got good enough to shoot straight (25 out of 25).

Then I shot straight shooting "low gun".

Then I shot straight with my 20 gauge "low gun".




Then I shot "5 Stand" and got 15 out of 25 = Humbling !!!

Practice, practice, practice............................just like anything else.

Great items. I got a monopod the first year they came out. They help but you really have to practice with them. I wish I would have waited for the tripod to come out. That's the one I'd get for sure.
And Ron, it would be ideal for your long range shooting you do in your neck of the woods. Or should I say prairie?

You read my mind when I first saw this thread. I have their bipod in 61" which I have used many times over the years. I killed four out of the five deer I shot this past season with it. Midway had it on sale for $50 back then, haven't seen that price again since.

I just bought the tripod last month in 62" from Midway for $99 on sale. Thats the lowest I have ever seen it, including Amazon! The price went back up when they sold out of them.

I'm just not as steady as I once was off hand even with the carry strap method. The steady sticks work!!

I just use the single one. I use it as a walking stick to, ecspecialy in Colorado

$99 is a great price. Primos sold me one at that price when my original one broke just after one year. For whatever reason, when I depress the trigger it would not adjust. so being it was out of their warranty, they sold it to me at their reduce price.

Ed, looks like they would have replaced it for free! or should have...even though out of warranty

I just made my Bi Fur pod from Varmint Al's web site from some scrap 3/4 x 3/4 wood. Works great, can also be uses as a walking stick too.


Varmint Al demonstrates it's use.
Here is the standing position with the fully extended Bi-Fur-Pod. It makes a much steadier hold than offhand.








But then I don't have all that money to buy stuff I can build my self.


:D Al

I endorse those 100%. I made dozens of sets of those. Took this coyote shooting off a bi-fur-pod.
Took dozens of beavers off those in the bi-pod position.



It's NOT shooting off hand though or shooting unsupported.

If you want to learn to shoot off hand unsupported or from field positions, then you need to read up on how TO DO THAT. Or you need someone WHO KNOWS HOW TO DO THAT to teach you how to do it. Rever's Riders, Appleseed instructors, and NRA Rifle instructors KNOW HOW TO DO THAT and know how to TEACH that.

http://artoftherifleblog.com/the-loo...oop-sling.html

gundigest.com/how-to/rifle-shooting-basics-loop-sling

http://www.petersenshunting.com/tips...should-master/

Then there's the other options for improving your unsupported shooting, don't do it and get closer.

Does anyone remember what this thread was about - "unsupported shooting".

................... and some of you guyz are worried about WHEN a thread is started ??

Let's see if "we" can determine WHAT the thread is about first - LOL

I will admit I really lack with off hand shooting most the time. But the funny thing is when the time comes hunting to do a snap shot, I usually pull it off. One rifle I have that really helped is my custom .54 caliber. With that Swamped barrel it balances just right when you place your hands a certain place. And if you shoot fast I can avoid the drifting barrel syndrome.

But when I hunt I carry a walking stick I made out of Alder wood.



Alder or Tag Alder as we call it is a very hard dense wood. I dried three sticks for two years in the rafters of my wood shed. Then took the one that stayed straight. I peeled it with a draw knife, sanded it smooth, and then using linseed oil treated it. That thing is hard as a rock. And I can grab it near the top, rest a rifle on my fist and do some pretty good shooting off it. Because I stink at open free hand shooting. Especially since I tore out a lot of muscles in my arm and shoulder.

My friends tell me if I miss I can club then to death with that Alder stick. It really is that hard. Makes nice axe handles too. Although its heavy wood.

Dave, It's time i started looking for a stick like yours.






Several posters to this thread suggested i need more practice, so i did.

Recent days presented a warming trend, and melting snow. Today, the trend was reversed, with a little added snow, and 26 degrees. Wore a wool coat, cap, and it kinda felt like i was really hunting. This morning seven shots were made. One thing is sure, i didn't get any better over night. Good thing i like shooting guns; it appears i will be doing a lot of it before next hunting season.

























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Ron, get a stick!!! I've got a few years on ya and know what you are going through. I still shoot fairly well when I have to sweep the barrel at a moving target but at a motionless target shooting freehand I'm better than you but still not near as well as I used to be. I started carrying a Mono many years ago. I made mine out of a stick of 3/4 EMT with a crutch foot on one end and a little plastic V-Cradle on the other... Works well and cost me around 5 bucks. Practice with it and changing your rifle elevation by putting the foot of the Mono out further will get relatively simple and second nature.

Ron,

I've never shot any other way than offhand. Whether hunting or shooting targets. (unless I was sighting in and then i'd use a bench). That's why I hate scopes and stock fit is so important.

I suggest you move closer at first. Keep moving closer until you can shoot a good group. Stay there and get consistent. Then and only then start to move back in small steps. We all have a distance we can shoot offhand good at. It will get shorter as you get older.

Don't even try to hold the sights steady. Nobody can do that. What you want to do is time when the sights pass over the bull with the trigger pull. Squeezing the trigger has never worked for me shooting offhand. By the time you get a slow squeeze off the sights are past the target. I use what I call a controlled fast squeeze. Set triggers were made for offhand shooting. All they take is a light tap and is easy to time as the sights go over the target. I use a figure eight movement on the sights. As the center of the eight passes the bull. Squeeze off the shot. The better you time it the more accurate you'll be.

Also, don't try and look at the rear sight, front sight, and target. Concentrate on just looking at the front sight. The other two will line up even if they're blurry from not looking at them. Try it for awhile. It works.

The last thing and it's very important. Try and stay calm and relaxed. If you tense up the barrel will move around more and you'll jerk the trigger.

Good luck.

I was a bowhunter for years efore I took up a gun of any kind. Its strange, if I try an offhand shot at a target I am just average at best. Somehow when a deer is walking past my shooting just becomes smooth and accurate. Its only when I take my time and try to over think a shot that I get in trouble. Granted I never take long distance shots at deer with any weapon. I tried shooting a round of silhouette targets with a 22 and I was just average. The ones that practiced that type of shooting were awesome.

God Bless Pete












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Muley is correct. You will never hold the barrel dead still. I guess you can use the "swing past" technique that Muley talks about. If you think about it, it's really the same thing I was saying. And if your feet are positioned correctly, which will become habit after a while, you will use less muscle tension and your "swing bys" will become smaller and you will notice that the sights are moving in a circular motion around the bull as you build up muscle memory.

I agree they will get smaller, but you still need to pull the trigger as they pass over the target.

Actually Pete, you want to learn to time the trigger break to just BEFORE passing over on a dead still target. Takes time for the break, hammer fall, ignition, and expulsion of the bullet. Granted not a LOT of time, but time no less. Especially on a front stuffer. Even a fast inline takes a good bit of time for all things to happen. That's why training with your specific load when free hand training is of UTMOST importance. It's all a matter of proper timing.

Granted, practicing with a little .22 may HELP some, it won't cure your specific problem. In all actuality, it could actually make things worse. If you were working on your freehand skills for CF then it would really help you on your timing. But since you are training for ML then it would in essence screw up your timing. Not to mention that the triggers would probably have different break pressures as well as takeup and follow through.

Exactly, but that's what I meant by time the trigger pull. All guns are different.

A good reason to stick to one gun for everything. Something I always did. Never owned more than one gun at a time. To buy one I sold one. Everybody rags on me for selling my guns all the time. Now you know why. I never wanted to have two guns at once.

LOL reminds me of the old adage: "Beware of the man with only one gun - he probably knows how to use it."
Muley I couldn't agree more. Not sure if you read my post on Grouse's thread about my episode with my Savage and the Accutrigger. Even after shooting that rifle all summer long when I jumped a nice buck my instincts took over and with all that movement to depress the "slack" on the accutrigger threw me off causing me to shoot well behind that deer resulting in a clean miss. Had I had my Browning or Tikka with me that buck would likely be on my wall.

You guys think way to much. Ron needs to get a shooting stick. When that Deer comes out, put the sight on we're you want to hit and pull the trigger. That's it, that simple. The bullet will hit were your aiming period!!

Simple isn't always better. I find shooting offhand more rewarding and it's totally humane if you practice enough and shoot at a range you know you're accurate at. I'm a still hunter. How would I do that while carrying a stick?

Most of the time I barely have enough time to shoulder the gun and get the shot off.

I agree for what its worth...

I dunno Pete, I've been using a mono for a good few years now. I practice a lot with it and I made it for me and my height and typical stance. I also practiced a lot with it shifting heights by kicking the foot out however much I needed to lower it. With practice comes ability. As I said earlier, I still shoot plenty well enough at a moving target where I need a swing through. But my standing still off hand shooting has suffered with age. Learning to shoot with a mono has improved my shooting tremendously.

Today, it was 12 degrees. Plenty of new snow. Shooting was done from 90 yard. Am still chilled. My concentration was on staying relaxed. The aim was kinda secondary to staying relaxed. First three shots.

















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What's the order of those shots Ron?

You don't know what? That i'd shoot better with a mono?

I've never lost any big game. How much better do I need to shoot?

Ron the target above is pretty darn good for the start of practice, off hand, especially under the weather circumstances. Now to head some off before they state, 'Well its cold during hunting season'. No disagreement. But starting to learn/change at this time of year, won't be as easy starting as it will in the spring.

I know guys that can shoot darn near a single hole 5-shot group at 50yds and a little larger at 100yds. NOT ME!
I do know how they prepare themselves. They take the hand held weights you see the preppies with, and hold them out at arms length, straight out in front of them. One in each hand. It builds up their stability.

What i am trying to do is become familiar with what it feels like to shoot off hand. It is probable i won't be competing with anyone, unless it is myself. My goal is to hit the typing paper with almost every shot. If i can hit the paper with near every shot, i will be satisfied.









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First shot was furthest left. The second shot was the one next to the first shot, just touching the red. The third shot was the one furthest to the right.










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Did you feel yourself tensing up on the 3rd shot?

I could feel myself tensing up on every shot. It was a conscious effort on my part, to stay loose.










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